Aller au contenu

Photo

Hang on, why Humans?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
63 réponses à ce sujet

#51
CulturalGeekGirl

CulturalGeekGirl
  • Members
  • 3 280 messages

Eudaemonium wrote...

Personally, I think that Harbinger's comment regarding Grunt (sterilized race. potential wasted) implies that at one point the Reapers were considering the Krogan. For example, Sovereign/the Reapers kick started the Rachni War, which was ended by the Krogan. This probably made the Reapers pay attention to them, coupled with their aggressive expansion and dominance of the galactic scene in the wake of the said War (a relatively short amount of time after they were 'uplifted'), they were probably high on the list of viable species. Of course, the genophage kinda screwed that plan up (potential wasted).

If we look at it this way, it seems that the Reapers might look for species that seem to adapt and evolve quickly, as opposed to having inate biotic/technical potential (though these help). Humans as well as Krogan (pre-genophage) were able to become significant forces on the galactic scene a relatively short amount of time after gaining space-flight technology. It seems to me, that this capacity for aggressive expansion and dominance might be a key factor in the Reapers' decision of which species to Harvest/elevate to Reaperdom.

That and 'humanz r speshul'.


Slightly less speshul than Krogan, but still speshul!

I agree with your theory there - if I was going to build a thing out of organics, the Krogan definitely seem like the best material. It also factors in to the whole "if you thwarted our last plan, you get bonus points in your evaluation" theme. Similarly, I think the Turians got negative points since Saren failed; that's why Harby says they've been found to be too primitive.

So basically, we win by default! 

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 08 avril 2011 - 11:26 .


#52
Akizora

Akizora
  • Members
  • 594 messages
Humans provide the highest diversity to be useful as soldiers for the reapers as they harvest all the dark energy of the galaxy, eradicate all other species because of their knowledge of them and return to darkspace as they await more dark energy to be created for 50 000 years. Why organics? Maybe only organics can create dark energy with exposure to element zero, and somehow the reapers need this as sustinence.

#53
Blacklash93

Blacklash93
  • Members
  • 4 154 messages
I just hope the Reapers are doing more than attacking Earth. Their conquest for humans shouldn't have them ignore the rest of the Galaxy.

Really, they shouldn't even be harvesting before they completely dominate Citadel Space. There are a ton of holes in that plan.

#54
Aergwest

Aergwest
  • Members
  • 30 messages

Golden Owl wrote...
True...but I'm not to sure what your point is...please clarify? Yes, it does appear that the Reapers have been trying for a while, the Protheans changing the Keepers reaction threw a spanner in the works for the Reapers intially....But since that time, within a short while of the advent of humans into the Galatic community, the Reapers have made special note of the humans....the question I think being asked here is why the particular interest in humans.


To elaborate:  If you take into consideration the point(s) I brought up it becomes clear that the Reapers' shift in focus occured only after Shepard (a human) discovered their plans, exposed them, and killed one of them.

This action clearly places humans at the top of the threat list above the other species.  You have to realize that the other species' had developed space flight centuries before humans and with all their technology they still did not figure out what Sovereign was up to throughout that time.

Humans come on the scene and in the blink of an eye one of them figues it all out; even if it was by dumb luck (the Prothean beacon).  Shepard still saw it out to the end and was able to unite the other species to defend the Citadel.  This show of strength earned humanity's right to be "reaperized" by the Collectors when Harbinger took over after Sovereigns loss.

[tl;dr]
Again, this doesn't mean the Reapers were NOT interested in the other species.  They simply could NOT do anything about it becaues of the Prothean's signal block.  They had been trying to harvest the others for centuries already.  Humans became top focus when they (albeit one man) were the first species to unveil them.

[edit]
Here is a likely scenario of what would have happened if not for the Protheans:
Reapers return and harvest the Asari, Salarians, Volus, and Rachni.
Turians become the next galactic 'empire'
Krogan may have developed space flight, eventually.
Reapers return and harvest Turians, Krogan, Elcor, and Hanar / Drell
Humans develop space flight and become the next galactic 'empire'
Reapers return and cycle continues from there with the next species to develop.

This can be theorized due to the discovery on Eletania from ME1 where you see that the Protheans were observing humanity.  Why didn't the Reapers harvest humanity then?  Technology did not develop yet.

Modifié par Aergwest, 08 avril 2011 - 01:57 .


#55
Nathan Redgrave

Nathan Redgrave
  • Members
  • 2 062 messages

Saphra Deden wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Except that to our knowledge Shepard is the first organic to have ever stopped the cycle from occurring, culminating in the death of an actual Reaper. That's not something any of the other alien species can say.  


Shepad was just in the right place at the right time too. He didn't do it alone either. I seem to remember him being supported by several aliens, aliens who apparently aren't as slick.

It's dumb.

Human's aren't special, they're just new and thus aren't as settled or comfortable with the Council way of life.

Once again, we were merely in the right place at the right time.


Humans don't actually have to be special for the Reapers to think they are.

#56
Golden Owl

Golden Owl
  • Members
  • 4 064 messages

Aergwest wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...
True...but I'm not to sure what your point is...please clarify? Yes, it does appear that the Reapers have been trying for a while, the Protheans changing the Keepers reaction threw a spanner in the works for the Reapers intially....But since that time, within a short while of the advent of humans into the Galatic community, the Reapers have made special note of the humans....the question I think being asked here is why the particular interest in humans.


To elaborate:  If you take into consideration the point(s) I brought up it becomes clear that the Reapers' shift in focus occured only after Shepard (a human) discovered their plans, exposed them, and killed one of them.

This action clearly places humans at the top of the threat list above the other species.  You have to realize that the other species' had developed space flight centuries before humans and with all their technology they still did not figure out what Sovereign was up to throughout that time.

Humans come on the scene and in the blink of an eye one of them figues it all out; even if it was by dumb luck (the Prothean beacon).  Shepard still saw it out to the end and was able to unite the other species to defend the Citadel.  This show of strength earned humanity's right to be "reaperized" by the Collectors when Harbinger took over after Sovereigns loss.

[tl;dr]
Again, this doesn't mean the Reapers were NOT interested in the other species.  They simply could NOT do anything about it becaues of the Prothean's signal block.  They had been trying to harvest the others for centuries already.  Humans became top focus when they (albeit one man) were the first species to unveil them.

Understood...thank you for the clarification Aergwest.

#57
Heavensrun

Heavensrun
  • Members
  • 383 messages

Dave666 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

DxWill10 wrote...

Not sure of this has been said, but Harbinger says something about their tendency to mate w/ other species expresses weakness. or something


I brought it up myself and its complete bolony.

Asari can reproduce with any race, so even if all but one Asari was wiped out in time the Asari race could spring back. 

Asari mates with a Turian and has three kids, those three mate with different species and each have three more kids and so on and so on.  How on earth does that make them weak?  Remember also that there's nothing stopping Asari-Asari pairings. Ardat Yakshi are extremely rare and we know that the Asari can mate with each other or the race would have been extinct long before they discovered other species.


I believe its best for the Asari to mate with their own species.  Becaus the Asari only share the basic gens with other species.. Their is a higher chance for genetic diversity through asari-exclusive pairings or gene therapy. So it seems that asari-alien pairings will lead to the daughter being a clone of her mother

All the pureblood hate is just  elitism propaganda spewed by the self-hating Asari who've made an inferior mating choice.
Even Asari doctors say nothing is gained genetically from asari-alien pairings

T


Quite the oposite actually, Asari-Asari pairings run a very small risk of producing an Ardat Yakshi, who is sterile remember.  Asari-Alien pairings run zero risk of this happening.  As for being clones of their mothers, thats just not the way its described in game.  The Asari 'mother' can rearrange the dna somehow, don't ask me how but there you go.


This is something that is -believed-, not nessecarily something that is true.  Given how rare the Ardat Yakshi are, and since there doesn't seem to be any kind of scientific awareness of what causes them (other than it is due to a genetic defect of some sort in the mother, hence Samara can go three for three with them)  Actualy, that's a really -strong- case for the species of the "father" to have nothing to do with the ardat yakshi problem.  Unless the problem is that -Samara- is a "pureblood", but again, I'd point to the lack of an adequate sample size to make any conclusions.

Actually, the whole concept behind the whole "purebloods lead to ardat yakshi" doesn't make much sense anyway.  For most of their evolutionary history, the Asari would have had noone -but- other Asari to breed with.  In fact, given that the mother takes no biological information from the father, it's -very- likely that there is no difference between an alien-fathered child and a "pureblood".  The whole thing rings of superstition and miseducation, honestly.

#58
Heavensrun

Heavensrun
  • Members
  • 383 messages

Dave666 wrote...

DxWill10 wrote...

Not sure of this has been said, but Harbinger says something about their tendency to mate w/ other species expresses weakness. or something


I brought it up myself and its complete bolony.

Asari can reproduce with any race, so even if all but one Asari was wiped out in time the Asari race could spring back. 

Asari mates with a Turian and has three kids, those three mate with different species and each have three more kids and so on and so on.  How on earth does that make them weak?  Remember also that there's nothing stopping Asari-Asari pairings. Ardat Yakshi are extremely rare and we know that the Asari can mate with each other or the race would have been extinct long before they discovered other species.


Well, I imagine it makes them weak in the same sense that any species that reproduces asexually (which the Asari essentially do) is weak.  Their extreme genetic similarity to one another leaves them extremely vulnerable to contagion.  A lack of genetic variability between individuals means that it should be difficult for them to adapt to changing circumstances, so one good plague could all but wipe out any given population.

Honestly, it's kinda surprising they made it off their home planet.

#59
CulturalGeekGirl

CulturalGeekGirl
  • Members
  • 3 280 messages

Heavensrun wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

DxWill10 wrote...

Not sure of this has been said, but Harbinger says something about their tendency to mate w/ other species expresses weakness. or something


I brought it up myself and its complete bolony.

Asari can reproduce with any race, so even if all but one Asari was wiped out in time the Asari race could spring back. 

Asari mates with a Turian and has three kids, those three mate with different species and each have three more kids and so on and so on.  How on earth does that make them weak?  Remember also that there's nothing stopping Asari-Asari pairings. Ardat Yakshi are extremely rare and we know that the Asari can mate with each other or the race would have been extinct long before they discovered other species.


I believe its best for the Asari to mate with their own species.  Becaus the Asari only share the basic gens with other species.. Their is a higher chance for genetic diversity through asari-exclusive pairings or gene therapy. So it seems that asari-alien pairings will lead to the daughter being a clone of her mother

All the pureblood hate is just  elitism propaganda spewed by the self-hating Asari who've made an inferior mating choice.
Even Asari doctors say nothing is gained genetically from asari-alien pairings

T


Quite the oposite actually, Asari-Asari pairings run a very small risk of producing an Ardat Yakshi, who is sterile remember.  Asari-Alien pairings run zero risk of this happening.  As for being clones of their mothers, thats just not the way its described in game.  The Asari 'mother' can rearrange the dna somehow, don't ask me how but there you go.


This is something that is -believed-, not nessecarily something that is true.  Given how rare the Ardat Yakshi are, and since there doesn't seem to be any kind of scientific awareness of what causes them (other than it is due to a genetic defect of some sort in the mother, hence Samara can go three for three with them)  Actualy, that's a really -strong- case for the species of the "father" to have nothing to do with the ardat yakshi problem.  Unless the problem is that -Samara- is a "pureblood", but again, I'd point to the lack of an adequate sample size to make any conclusions.

Actually, the whole concept behind the whole "purebloods lead to ardat yakshi" doesn't make much sense anyway.  For most of their evolutionary history, the Asari would have had noone -but- other Asari to breed with.  In fact, given that the mother takes no biological information from the father, it's -very- likely that there is no difference between an alien-fathered child and a "pureblood".  The whole thing rings of superstition and miseducation, honestly.


It could be that, in the past, Ardat Yakshi were more common, like 1/10,000 rather than 1 in several billion.

Here is how it could work: the Asari contain a lot of genes, more than are expressed in them... they basically carry a bunch of alternate gene sets, related to previous ancestors, which acts as "junk" DNA until it's time for them to reproduce.

There's one really bad Recessive gene, let's call it AY. So an Asari's genome could look like this: 

OO OO
OT OT
OT OT
AY OT
OT TO 

When the Asari mate with another species, the other species chooses which of the multitude of DNA the Asari carries is treated as "junk" and which is treated as "Expressed" DNA. The AY gene will only be chosen as an Expressed Gene if the other carrier has an AY gene. No race other than the Asari have that gene, so only mating with other Asari (and only with other Asari who are also carriers) produces the chance of an Ardat Yakshi.

This could be why purebloods are views as unpopular - when an alien is used to randomize expression, you'll get a better randomization. When another asari is used, genes currently expressed by both parents are more likely to be chosen. This means you're more likely to get double recessives, though it's not guaranteed. It's like some genetic disorders in humans - they are more likely to occur if members of a genetic group that has that particular recessive interbreed, rather than marrying outside their genetic group.

It could be that, in a population where Asari breed only with each other, AY and other genetic disorders are more common. It's similar to the proscription against marrying your second cousin - in reality, marrying your second cousin produces very little increased likelihood of genetic defect. It's marrying cousins over dozens and dozens of generations, like in Medieval Europe, that causes problems.

So the Asari may have noticed that AY became less common when they started using other species to breed, and so it quickly became taboo to mate with the same species - even if the risk isn't any higher on average. This is similar to the taboo against marrying cousins on earth, no matter how distant they are. Many very distant cousins (fourth cousins, third cousins twice removed, that kind of things) are actually no more likely to be genetically similar to you than a random stranger, but there's still a taboo against dating them. (There's a hilarious 30 Rock episode about this.) In reality, pureblood breeding is only dangerous for the tiny minority who have the AY gene (or other rare, recessive disorder genes), but since breeding with a non-Asari means there's no risk at all, the prejudice continues.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 09 avril 2011 - 04:45 .


#60
MadCat221

MadCat221
  • Members
  • 2 330 messages
Why humans? Because Humans Are Special.

#61
Fiery Phoenix

Fiery Phoenix
  • Members
  • 18 971 messages
You can take a look at Harbinger's reasons for his fascinating with humanity HERE.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 09 avril 2011 - 04:54 .


#62
Kathleen321

Kathleen321
  • Members
  • 988 messages
apparently we humans as S.P.E.C.I.A.L
I still think the Asari are the most intelligent and useful species. If I were harbinger I'd aim for them.

#63
tjzsf

tjzsf
  • Members
  • 184 messages
Because it would have been turians due to Saren, but you beat Saren so to Reapers, humans > turians.

#64
d1sciple

d1sciple
  • Members
  • 430 messages
holy mega necro.

but still i don't think anyone has mentioned the fact that Mordin explains humans as 'better' genetically than any other species. taken that the Reapers play around with genes and the 'new' Reaper takes on the form of the species it's created with, then it makes sense to use the best genes possible.
Asari are a sterile gene pool in that they don't actually bond or combine genes, therefore reducing diversity and the other races cons are commented on by Harbinger etc.
genes, that's all, cos we **** anything and everything that walks. jesus, i guess that's another thing we can blame on dead beat dads going round impregnating anything they can get there hands on!