90 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenB]

Blood mages don't necessarily bond with a demon, though, do they? They just learn how to use blood (their own or others) in place of lyrium, it seems. As well as some skills that take power over blood in others. The skills alone aren't necessarily evil. One could very realistically use blood magic without ever hurting an "innocent".

It seems to me that the high number of blood mages who become possessed is probably just a numbers game. Most blood mages we see are prone to keep ongoing contact with demons. I don't think it's necessarily that they're more susceptible or a stronger magnet, so much as that they were just more open to seeking them out, which is what made them more likely to be blood mages to begin with.

Until I see greater proof, I don't believe blood magic is inherently bad. I do think dealing with demons is always a game of roulette, though. It seems like very risky business that's bound to go wrong over prolonged use.

[Darkhour]

What annoyed me was that EVERY SINGLE CORNERED MAGE decided to become an abomination when they KNOW FOR A GOD DAMNED FACT that becoming an abomination is as good as slitting their own wrist. It got extremely annoying that they ALL could do this. Like there is a "summon demon inside me" spell that any mage can do at will. Doesn't a demon have to come for you, not the other way around. Since when could mages get themselves possessed at will? Does every mage have a demon standing at their mind's door 24/7 waiting for an invitation?

[RavenB]

Darkhour wrote...

What annoyed me was that EVERY SINGLE CORNERED MAGE decided to become an abomination when they KNOW FOR A GOD DAMNED FACT that becoming an abomination is as good as slitting their own wrist. It got extremely annoying that they ALL could do this. Like there is a "summon demon inside me" spell that any mage can do at will. Doesn't a demon have to come for you, not the other way around. Since when could mages get themselves possessed at will? Does every mage have a demon standing at their mind's door 24/7 waiting for an invitation?

Kirkwall has an extremely thin veil due to the Imperium's magisters specifically weakening it. A codex claims demons can pass so readily under the city that they can even approach non-mages. It's also unclear to me whether the mages have to actually allow possession. Wynne implied at one point that mages can be taken by demons without actually agreeing to it. It's possible the demons forces possession when the mages were under life or death distress.

[Nashiktal]

Blood magic itself isn't actually evil. As the cliche goes, it's the user.

However blood magic involves near constant contact with demons, and spirits from the veil. These are ageless creatures that have for centuries been polishing new tricks and traps to catch mortals. As a result blood magic is extra dangerous for the unwary. Just look at how merrill's story went to see what I mean. She almost unleashed a very old, and powerful demon into the world that no doubt would cause unprecedented mayhem and evil.

[Darkhour]

RavenB wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

What annoyed me was that EVERY SINGLE CORNERED MAGE decided to become an abomination when they KNOW FOR A GOD DAMNED FACT that becoming an abomination is as good as slitting their own wrist. It got extremely annoying that they ALL could do this. Like there is a "summon demon inside me" spell that any mage can do at will. Doesn't a demon have to come for you, not the other way around. Since when could mages get themselves possessed at will? Does every mage have a demon standing at their mind's door 24/7 waiting for an invitation?

Kirkwall has an extremely thin veil due to the Imperium's magisters specifically weakening it. A codex claims demons can pass so readily under the city that they can even approach non-mages. It's also unclear to me whether the mages have to actually allow possession. Wynne implied at one point that mages can be taken by demons without actually agreeing to it. It's possible the demons forces possession when the mages were under life or death distress.

When a demon forces itself on you it has to actually defeat you in the fade (i.e. the Harrowing) or be summoned and physically overpower them. It can't just take a waking mage out of the blue from the fade. If that were the case all mages would abominations. 
 
The problem is none of these cornered mages mages summon a demon physical. They just up and become abominations like, um... like magic. 

[Darkhour]

The Angry One wrote...

Did Wynne even make a deal?
I got the impression that Wynne was dying, the spirit decided on it's own to merge with her to save her and that was that.

It doesn't sound like Wynne is an abomination, but something else.  There is no impression that anything merged with her. The Spirit is a distinct entity from Wynne where an abomination is one entity that used to be two. Sounds like Wynne's spirit is linked physically and just keeps her body alive without actually melding with her mind.

[MartinTheGrey]

I don’t think the link between blood mages and abominations is something they just made up or exaggerated for DA2. I think I remember finding some codex entries during the circle tower quest in Origins that were written by a blood mage practitioner. They seemed to indicate that he considered becoming an abomination a natural progression to a blood mage’s quest for power: even something to aspire too if you can make a deal with the right type of demon (presumably one of the greater demons like pride or desire).

Edit:
found it  - "the Scrolls of Banastor" under quest related.

Modifié par MartinTheGrey, 10 avril 2011 - 02:03 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

Great point. These particular entry in the scrolls is telling:


In the Fade dwell creatures both foul and fair, but all plague mankind with lusts and prides incalculable in our waking hours. Our power attracts them, and for good reason: Our unique bridge between flesh and dreams is one way they can enter the realm of flesh. To begin the path to true power, court these poor, terrible creatures and best them. Force them into servitude or pledge your heart to them. Either way, you gain immense power and the means with which to tear holes in the world.

(Below the text, scribbled in the margin, are arcane symbols drawn with blood.)
****
The creatures, these demons, require little in the way of bribery. Their natural state is one of longing for the world of flesh and blood. This is what you offer them: respite from their eternal search for true life. Engage them in a battle of wills, and you will be successful. Should you fail, the power will be yours, but your body will belong to the demon. Relish this infernal power while it lasts, for once you are an abomination, your demon half will soon swallow your mind.

(Below is a litany of lines written in an arcane, forgotten language, indecipherable to all but the most obsessed of linguists.)


As Tarohne notes, as these scrolls explain, as the Tevinter magisters prove: the greatest blood mages are those who win the contest of wills with demonkind. The ones who fall prey to them do so because they are failures. Demonic possession is no more essential to blood magic than burning one's self alive is to elemental magic.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

The most powerful magisters of the ancient Imperium were so wizened by their extensive use of lyrium that they were scarcely recognizable as human. Clearly, ugliness is a sign of power and prestige when it comes to magic.

I kind of remember something like that, but am uncertain of the source.

The codex entry for Lyrium.

Asdara wrote...

I think, and I've said this elsewhere, that the theory that blood mages are more susceptible to demonic possession - for me - makes sense only outside the Imperium, in lands controlled by the Circles. Think about it, if you're taught that the two ultimate evils you can ever engage in - by society's dominant religion no less - are blood magic and becoming an abomination, the two will become more likely to be linked in occurrence.

The blood mages in Tevinter probably get training just like they would for any other sphere of magic. It would make it much easier to control your emotions while doing it, to resist fear of bleeding out, to learn effective use methods and minimize personal danger.

Whereas, mages without any training - or minimal training - in doing it resort to blood magic in DA2 out of sheer desperation more than any other factor. Cornered, fighting for their lives, turned on by the people who are supposed to "protect" them who've come under the leadership of a crazed zealot - thats where we see the most turning to immediate blood magic to abomination in rapid succession.

Look at the blood mages in DA2 who aren't abominations involved in All That Remains. They're not abominations; they're just blood mages. One doesn't always lead to the other - but in the intense situations we see during Act 3... it seems plausible that turning to blood magic was simply the step between who you were on a normal day and becoming an abomination.

So it seems to depend on what kind of situation the mage is in and what motivated them to pick up that magic method. Like anything, it's more likely to have adverse effects in the hands of someone who is completely clueless about it.

I agree with this 100%. Ignorance of a dangerous thing is bound to be dangerous: learning how to use it is key. The Chantry suppresses learning, and they are surprised when the results are disastrous.

Yellopranda wrote...

On the Blood Magic = Evil issue; it seems to me that blood magic is not in and of itself evil, certainly dangerous, but so are many things in life. That doesn't mean it's not worth exploring.

The biggest problem with blood magic seems to be society's attitude to it, with that attitude being shaped mostly by the Chantry. During sixteenth and seventeenth century mainly, the church killed tens of thousands of people accused of witchcraft for a variety of reasons, among them because many thought it was real and that they abhorred any power that didn't come from God. Remind anyone of the Chantry?

Of course. Blood magic and magical learning are analoguous to paganism and ancient learning.

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 10 avril 2011 - 03:56 .

[Realmzmaster]

Blood magic in itself is not evil. Demons use it to tempt mages. Blood magic uses a source that is readily available and far easier to obtain than lyrium. The problem is that most blood magic is taught by demons therefore the demon has the ear of the mage and can play on the mage's desires. Demons can influence "normal" humans like Lady Harriman.
Note that the good spirits in the fade do not teach blood magic from what I can tell
But even the good spirits can warp a mage's mind if meld with them (consider Anders and Justice). Anders hate warps Justice into Vengeance which in turn warps Anders further.
Much like the lyrium idol (which is probably possessed by a spirit) warps Bartrand and Meredith.

[Yellopranda]

Nashiktal wrote...

Blood magic itself isn't actually evil. As the cliche goes, it's the user.

However blood magic involves near constant contact with demons, and spirits from the veil. These are ageless creatures that have for centuries been polishing new tricks and traps to catch mortals. As a result blood magic is extra dangerous for the unwary. Just look at how merrill's story went to see what I mean. She almost unleashed a very old, and powerful demon into the world that no doubt would cause unprecedented mayhem and evil.

People point to Merrill's story as a sort of lesson in how it can all go wrong. I don't see a lesson there. As far as we, the players, know, Merrill did nothing wrong, and it could very well have turned out just fine had people just stayed out of her way, no way to tell.

If there is a lesson to be had it's that people like Marethari, who have no experience in blood magic and don't know what they're doing, shouldn't interfere.

[lorvincent]

Yellopranda wrote...

People point to Merrill's story as a sort of lesson in how it can all go wrong. I don't see a lesson there. As far as we, the players, know, Merrill did nothing wrong, and it could very well have turned out just fine had people just stayed out of her way, no way to tell.

If there is a lesson to be had it's that people like Marethari, who have no experience in blood magic and don't know what they're doing, shouldn't interfere.

Actually, there is a point where Hawke clearly states that Merrill is at a greater risk than normal mages since she is a blood mage.

(Playing devil's advocate here.  My opinions were already on page 2)

[Kijin]

lorvincent wrote...

Yellopranda wrote...

People point to Merrill's story as a sort of lesson in how it can all go wrong. I don't see a lesson there. As far as we, the players, know, Merrill did nothing wrong, and it could very well have turned out just fine had people just stayed out of her way, no way to tell.

If there is a lesson to be had it's that people like Marethari, who have no experience in blood magic and don't know what they're doing, shouldn't interfere.

Actually, there is a point where Hawke clearly states that Merrill is at a greater risk than normal mages since she is a blood mage.

(Playing devil's advocate here.  My opinions were already on page 2)

Don't quite know why you have chosen to play Devil's Advocate, but whatever. Blood Mages are hunted down by the Chantry - a Blood Mage gets put into a corner, and he/she believes they are about to be killed. The Blood Mage decides to die fighting - so he/she signs a deal with a demon and becomes an Abomination. This is what happened to Orsino, and most of the mages in the circle. 

Using blood magic does not make you more suspectible to demonic possession. However, templars do kill Blood Mages - and many Blood Mages would rather die fighting, so they make a deal with a demon. 

[LobselVith8]

lorvincent wrote...

Actually, there is a point where Hawke clearly states that Merrill is at a greater risk than normal mages since she is a blood mage.

(Playing devil's advocate here.  My opinions were already on page 2)

Hawke can also state that the Chantry controlled Circles force mages into servitude and are slavery, and David Gaider revealed he's wrong. Ergo, Hawke is a moron.

[KyleOrdrum]

To answer the OP's question, blood magic doesn't automatically = abominations. As shown in origins, bloody magic is merely a form of magic that uses lifeforce instead of force of will. That being said, in an area like kirkwall, the templar center of the world, it would be much harder to find information on blood magic. As such, one would be forced to turn to demons to learn. Why would the mages risk this? Because blood magic is effective against templars. Remember that the templars can prevent a mage from being able to concentrate their will into magic. It was said in DA:O however, that templars couldn't block blood magic in the same way. As someone above pointed out, they're cornered, scared, exhausted, and only thinking of survival. Also considering that most mages are found by a very young age, it's unlikely they'd know enough to truly function on their own if they escaped.

[Mnemnosyne]

Yellopranda wrote...

People point to Merrill's story as a
sort of lesson in how it can all go wrong. I don't see a lesson there.
As far as we, the players, know, Merrill did nothing wrong, and it could
very well have turned out just fine had people just stayed out of her
way, no way to tell.

If there is a lesson to be had it's that
people like Marethari, who have no experience in blood magic and don't
know what they're doing, shouldn't interfere.

Really well pointed out, and this mirrors my feelings on that entire situation and anyone who brings up Merrill as any sort of example of something bad happening.  Merrill never did a single thing wrong that we know of, she doesn't ignore the risks and she takes responsibility for them, and there is no way to know if she would have had no problems with the situation had she been given the chance.

LobselVith8 wrote...

lorvincent wrote...

Actually, there is a point where Hawke clearly states that Merrill is at a greater risk than normal mages since she is a blood mage.

(Playing devil's advocate here.  My opinions were already on page 2)

Hawke can also state that the Chantry controlled Circles force mages into servitude and are slavery, and David Gaider revealed he's wrong. Ergo, Hawke is a moron.

Yeah, Hawke's reactions to blood magic and pretty much every possible conversation involving it show that Hawke doesn't really know or understand it (and the game doesn't recognize in conversation even if you spec blood mage, so the fact that Hawke might theoretically be a blood mage mechanically doesn't ever register as far as dialogue is concerned) and believes the general 'blood magic = EVIL!' line spread by the chantry.  Also, Hawke isn't always right.

[Tainan7509]

Sometime.. to be evil is necessary in the real life survival. Just so you know.

[Joy Divison]

Koyasha wrote...

Really well pointed out, and this mirrors my feelings on that entire situation and anyone who brings up Merrill as any sort of example of something bad happening.  Merrill never did a single thing wrong that we know of, she doesn't ignore the risks and she takes responsibility for them, and there is no way to know if she would have had no problems with the situation had she been given the chance.

While I do agree w/ you on Merrill / Marethari, it isn't 100% right to say she never did anything wrong.  If you bring her into the fade, she does accept the Pride Demon's deal and turn on Hawke.

It is possible this is more of a plot railroad which breaks the consistency of Merrill's character since all of your companions turn on you no matter what, but it is still there.

[ColdEnd]

Blood Magic IS evil, and gets progressively more evil as you go.

Firstly, remember that blood magic is a forbidden practice, and to learn it in general, you have to either have a demon teach it to you or you have to learn it from a practicing blood mage. In Origins you learned it from a demon; in DA2, one can assume you learn it from Merril, who learned it from... a demon.

The other blood mages you see in DA, have squishy morals at best.
- Jowan is weak-willed, cowardly, and willing to poison a man he does not know to gain his freedom.
- Merril is prideful and blind; assuming that she, and she alone will force her will on her clan and "save" them in spite of themselves...and knowing she is superior to them she can safely ignore the dangers of dealing with demons, because she of all the mages before her, has a possibility of avoiding possession.
- Gasgard DuPuee and Quentin the psycopath Dr. Frankenstein Mage - I hope I don't have to elaborate on how evil they are.

In both Origins and 2 - mechanically, the very first spell you are able to learn through Blood Magic... is "Sacrifice" how to drain your ally's life force in order to fuel your own magic. You go... immediately from using your own blood, to using the blood of others! Basically becomming like a vampire for mana, starting with those that trust you most. Oh and by the way, if you KILL your companions, you get bonus power... so the 'willing victim' arguement is out the window.

A mage willing to resort to Blood Magic, is already dealing with demons to begin with directly, or they have the mentality that dealing with demons is not wrong (because they learned Blood Magic from a mage who did so)... so they are already primed and ready to become an abomination, and they are already commiting evil acts by sacrificing the blood of their allies.

[Mnemnosyne]

Joy Divison wrote...

Koyasha wrote...

Really well pointed out, and this mirrors my feelings on that entire situation and anyone who brings up Merrill as any sort of example of something bad happening.  Merrill never did a single thing wrong that we know of, she doesn't ignore the risks and she takes responsibility for them, and there is no way to know if she would have had no problems with the situation had she been given the chance.

While I do agree w/ you on Merrill / Marethari, it isn't 100% right to say she never did anything wrong.  If you bring her into the fade, she does accept the Pride Demon's deal and turn on Hawke.

It is possible this is more of a plot railroad which breaks the consistency of Merrill's character since all of your companions turn on you no matter what, but it is still there.

True, I was discounting that one due to the plot railroading.  I also feel that it's a little different than most Fade situations we see anywhere else in the games.  In DA:O and Awakening we had a couple situations where the group goes into the Fade and they don't react this way.  The sloth demon has to trick the party members in that instance, for example. 

If explained in-character, I would say that the demons in this case were still empowered by the situation they were in - even if Feynriel had rejected them, they still had some connection to him, and were essentially able to use his power to force them to obey.

I would feel differently if it seemed the demons actually tempted these characters, but it comes across as much more of a 'hey, switch sides now, 'kay?' and they just do it because, and there is no chance to resist.

I suppose a better phrasing might be 'she never does anything wrong that every other party member doesn't also do' (except Justice, but y'know, totally different situation there).

[Yellopranda]

ColdEnd wrote...

Blood Magic IS evil, and gets progressively more evil as you go.

Firstly, remember that blood magic is a forbidden practice, and to learn it in general, you have to either have a demon teach it to you or you have to learn it from a practicing blood mage. In Origins you learned it from a demon; in DA2, one can assume you learn it from Merril, who learned it from... a demon.

The other blood mages you see in DA, have squishy morals at best.
- Jowan is weak-willed, cowardly, and willing to poison a man he does not know to gain his freedom.
- Merril is prideful and blind; assuming that she, and she alone will force her will on her clan and "save" them in spite of themselves...and knowing she is superior to them she can safely ignore the dangers of dealing with demons, because she of all the mages before her, has a possibility of avoiding possession.
- Gasgard DuPuee and Quentin the psycopath Dr. Frankenstein Mage - I hope I don't have to elaborate on how evil they are.

In both Origins and 2 - mechanically, the very first spell you are able to learn through Blood Magic... is "Sacrifice" how to drain your ally's life force in order to fuel your own magic. You go... immediately from using your own blood, to using the blood of others! Basically becomming like a vampire for mana, starting with those that trust you most. Oh and by the way, if you KILL your companions, you get bonus power... so the 'willing victim' arguement is out the window.

A mage willing to resort to Blood Magic, is already dealing with demons to begin with directly, or they have the mentality that dealing with demons is not wrong (because they learned Blood Magic from a mage who did so)... so they are already primed and ready to become an abomination, and they are already commiting evil acts by sacrificing the blood of their allies.

This assumes demons are evil. It's the chantry that separates spirits into demons and benevolent spirits. obviously, as in Anders case, what the chantry sees as good spirits aren't always as benevolent as they would have it. Merrill says that in a banter with Anders that what the chantry teaches is wrong. They're all spirits, and they're all dangerous.

As i see it demons are just representations og basic human emotions. They feed off these human emotions much like a parasite. This goes for spirits like justice as well as pride or sloth. I wouldn't call a parasite good or evil however, dangerous yes.

Desire is classified as an evil demon by the chantry. I have several desires i would consider myself a lesser person had i been without. A desire for a good life, a desire for the health and happiness of my friends and family. It's what you desire that is either good or evil, not desire in itself.

As for Merrill being proud and blind in thinking that she alone can save her people without succumbing to possession. Maybe she is proud, but who can say she isn't right? It was pretty damn arrogant of Copernicus to fly in the face of 2000 years of knowledge and the might of the entire catholic church and say that the earth wasn't the center of the universe. He was right though.

Lastly, a minor point. Blood Magic is the first spell you learn in blood magic, not sacrifice. In DA2 you can also learn grave robber before sacrifice. Even if you learn it though there's nothing forcing you to use it.

[Rockpopple]

In the next DA game:

- Have you make a pact with a Demon to become a Blood Mage.
- Blood Mage have summoning spells. They can Summon shades and re-animate dead bodies, as well as their usual stock of Blood Mage spells (Hemmorage, etc)
- Other characters who have strong feelings either/or towards Blood Magic (eg. Wynne, Anders, Fenris, etc.) will say so about your MC.

And I'll be a happy monkey!

[Yellopranda]

Rockpopple wrote...

In the next DA game:

- Have you make a pact with a Demon to become a Blood Mage.
- Blood Mage have summoning spells. They can Summon shades and re-animate dead bodies, as well as their usual stock of Blood Mage spells (Hemmorage, etc)
- Other characters who have strong feelings either/or towards Blood Magic (eg. Wynne, Anders, Fenris, etc.) will say so about your MC.

And I'll be a happy monkey!

I would giggle like a little girl and shout with glee!

[barryl89]

I can't see where the "Blood Magic is a happy fun pastime for kiddy magisters and the chantry is evil for stopping blood mages" argument is coming from.

Powerful blood mages use the blood of others to fuel their spells so they don't have to use lyrium.

A blood mage that only uses his/her own blood is pretty weak, and would weaken themselves to the point of becoming abominations.

So if in order to use blood magic and not be vulnerable to demons, you need slaves and lots of them. Otherwise you end up like most of the DA2 blood mages.

I would like to point you to DAO and the Alienage quest. The magister in that quest uses the slaves to fight the warden: "A sacrifice... for power".

[LobselVith8]

ColdEnd wrote...

Blood Magic IS evil, and gets progressively more evil as you go.

No, blood magic isn't evil. It's a form of magic that can be used for purposes that aren't good, but a sword or a bow can also be used for malevolant purposes - it doesn't make a sword or a bow evil. Considering that the Joining is a form of blood magic - using Archdemon blood, darkspawn blood, and magic - I think it's brought something good into the world, as the Grey Wardens are the only reason why the Blights are brought to an end.

ColdEnd wrote...

Firstly, remember that blood magic is a forbidden practice, and to learn it in general, you have to either have a demon teach it to you or you have to learn it from a practicing blood mage.

Or read about it in a book, via Jowan in the Magi Origin or the Warden-Commander in Amaranthine.

ColdEnd wrote...

In Origins you learned it from a demon; in DA2, one can assume you learn it from Merril, who learned it from... a demon.

And the demon Audacity is still trapped in the totem despite her learning it from a demon, so no one was harmed in the process.

ColdEnd wrote...

The other blood mages you see in DA, have squishy morals at best.
- Jowan is weak-willed, cowardly, and willing to poison a man he does not know to gain his freedom.

He poisons Arl Eamon because he's told the Arl is a threat to the entire nation by the Hero of River Dane, who freed Ferelden from Orlesian occupation thirty years ago. If freed, he becomes Master Levyn, protecting people from the darkspawn.

ColdEnd wrote...

- Merril is prideful and blind; assuming that she, and she alone will force her will on her clan and "save" them in spite of themselves...and knowing she is superior to them she can safely ignore the dangers of dealing with demons, because she of all the mages before her, has a possibility of avoiding possession.

Merrill is prideful because she wants to help her people? I don't agree with this at all. She's willing to give up her life for the slim chance that her people will benefit from the Eluvian, and the entire premise behind the Dalish is the restoration of their past.

ColdEnd wrote...

- Gasgard DuPuee and Quentin the psycopath Dr. Frankenstein Mage - I hope I don't have to elaborate on how evil they are.

So are the criminals who use swords and daggers to try to kill Hawke and the rest of his moiety crew, but it doesn't make blood magic evil.

ColdEnd wrote...

In both Origins and 2 - mechanically, the very first spell you are able to learn through Blood Magic... is "Sacrifice" how to drain your ally's life force in order to fuel your own magic. You go... immediately from using your own blood, to using the blood of others! Basically becomming like a vampire for mana, starting with those that trust you most. Oh and by the way, if you KILL your companions, you get bonus power... so the 'willing victim' arguement is out the window.

It's not out of the question since you can fuel spells with your own blood or only take a portion of the other person's blood; you don't have to kill people to use blood magic.

ColdEnd wrote...

A mage willing to resort to Blood Magic, is already dealing with demons to begin with directly, or they have the mentality that dealing with demons is not wrong (because they learned Blood Magic from a mage who did so)... so they are already primed and ready to become an abomination, and they are already commiting evil acts by sacrificing the blood of their allies.

No, a blood mage doesn't have to consort with demons directly, but they can summon demons with blood magic; spirit healers can summon spirits to augment their healing abilities from the Fade, so blood magic isn't even necessary for demonology.

[jklinders]

There is a lot to be said on the topic of the Circle's fear of pessesion actually making things worse.

By completely avoiding demons and research of possession it is likely making it harder to teach mages to avoid the pitfalls of these magics. Banning all study of blood magic out of fear of demons is almost certainly making it easier for demons to catch their mage because there is always going to be the idiot looking to find out what this "forbidden lore" is all about. I didn't learn steam was hot as a kid by dad telling me not to leave my hand in it. I learned by getting burned by it. Knowledge works the same way and so I expect would magic.

My opinion is that if the Circle wishes to remain relevent to the mages and protect from possession at the same time there needs to be a proper class in the Circles on Blood Magic and possession. Doing otherwise actually increases the risk because hearing about this crap is all well and good. Finding out first hand at the direction of an experienced master is far better.

In other words the fear mongering of the Chantry about demons is having the opposite of their intended effect.