108 réponses à ce sujet

[bald man in a boat]

Does anybody else find the fact that Miranda is the best stripper to be both ironic and hilarious?

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^

You lack subtlety, friend.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 12 avril 2011 - 02:59 .

[RGFrog]

Kronner wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

AK404 wrote...
As other posters have mentioned, she's the only member who can instantly strip all defense types, .

Umm... no, even with all the upgrades she doesn't strip all defense types instantly. It takes 2 or sometimes 3 casts on insanity...

With all the upgrades (6), even her Area Overload and Unstable Warp completly strip all defense types instantly.
If you go Heavy, you need 3 upgrades.

Well color me confused. I could swear it was taking at least two casts to do this.

Just tested it and it's only taking one... sheesh, how could I miss that? I don't think I'll take her more often, but with her and Thane, i have a strip for every defense and an extra warp for bombs if I choose otherwise...

[Ahglock]

RGFrog wrote...

Kronner wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

AK404 wrote...
As other posters have mentioned, she's the only member who can instantly strip all defense types, .

Umm... no, even with all the upgrades she doesn't strip all defense types instantly. It takes 2 or sometimes 3 casts on insanity...

With all the upgrades (6), even her Area Overload and Unstable Warp completly strip all defense types instantly.
If you go Heavy, you need 3 upgrades.

Well color me confused. I could swear it was taking at least two casts to do this.

Just tested it and it's only taking one... sheesh, how could I miss that? I don't think I'll take her more often, but with her and Thane, i have a strip for every defense and an extra warp for bombs if I choose otherwise...

Yeah, that is one of the great things about her.  She can both strip defenses and is either half of the warp bomb.  I take her around a lot, but it is just because I hate all the warp bomb characters.  Her, hate.  Thane hate, Samara hate, jacob hate.  So when they all are crap on the take for personality side i minds well take her and her versatility.  

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^lol. I also hate Thane for some reason and I don't even know why. It's pretty irrational - I take him because he's good, but I find I'm always grumbling when he's around, like: "Stupid Thane...", "Shup, Thane", etc., even when he's totally on fire kicking azz.

Jacob.. well, it's Jacob... Whenever I turn around and see him doing the machinegun cha-cha, I'm like, "meh".

So really I'm not one to judge when it comes to subjectively hating squadmates, even if they're good squadmates.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 12 avril 2011 - 10:26 .

[AK404]

Heh. Thane...I know who's immediately going to get benched on my sniper team once I obtain that Reaper IFF.

When your personality is deemed less preferable to a walking reading lamp, you know you're in trouble. =p

[Ahglock]

A lot of people love Thane. But the remorseful assassin who now uses his skills to kill the bad guys in order to make up for his sins is a cliche I never really cared for. I also think it was done poorly, don't get me wrong I prefer the I see death looming excuse for the life change over the I met a pretty girl that seems more common in movies. But hell even Stalone did it better in Assassins. Add in that his perfect memory thing just makes him really annoying to talk to and he becomes a pile of suck to me.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Actually, I found Thane's story pretty touching... yet I can still hate him somehow. Logic pwns me sometimes.

[aeetos21]

AK404 wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

You are of course entiteld to your opinion but... if you want to argue against the lead gameplay designer be my guest.

link

We do that all the time, it's called "the forums."  You see, I'm not a big believer in the "lead designer is always right" mantra.

I guess I'm playing a different way than most pro-Miranda players are, but I've given her a whirl on a couple of missions, and so long as she stays put and I've re-spec'd her for the mission at hand, she more than pulls her weight.

As other posters have mentioned, she's the only member who can instantly strip all defense types, and I can see the immediate benefits behind that, but planning warp bombs demands that she be paired with another biotic user, which limits your squad selection somewhat (assuming Shepard has no biotics).

It all depends on how you use your team, and while I find that I'm usually playing a flanking-at-range and decoy game with a three-sniper team, getting up close and personal with Miranda on the team is also enjoyable (at least, it's gotten better since I got my infiltrator her shotgun and Tempest).  It just depends how I feel like playing every mission.

Its pretty clear you favor sniper teams and the long range infi, in that case Miranda would not be the best choice - that doesn't mean she's useless on insanity which you claimed in your original post and what this thread is all about. As for biotics, any Shepard can spec slam. If you plan on bringing Miranda along with you in most missions then that would be a good power to consider given the power of the warp bomb. If you don't plan on her bringing her for most missions then your argument for needing another biotic in the party is redundant, pointless, and has no bearing on this thread.

As for Miranda staying put? The only time I see her leave position is when combat breaks for a moment and teammates form up, that could be annoying if combat resumes quickly and you'd rather still have her in position. Or when Shepard gets too far from her and the other squadmates. So as long as you keep good situational awareness her "going rogue" (lets call it) is a rarity, or at least as rare as any other squadmate.

CN's opinion is respected, people won't always agree with her but that doesn't mean she's wrong either. Her argument is the same exact one that every single "pro-Miranda" commenter on this thread has been making. In fact this isn't the first time I've seen a thread of this type pop up that claims Miranda is useless as a character and - no surprise - it's going exactly the same way the previous one did. You can either agree to disagree, in what we adults call a "mature conversation", or you can whine about it.

Either way, your question and this thread has been answered which I believe is what forums do - unless you want to have an argument over that too.

Engaging at close range is one of the funnest ways to play ME2, otherwise people wouldn't even bother with the VG. I'm glad to see that we can agree on at least that point.

[KingNothing125]

Overload + Warp + Cerberus Officer/Tactician. Shield, Barrier, Armor damage and Squad buffs make her basically an essential squadmate for most missions.

[Taritu]

She's versatile. I still don't use her much, because I can't stand her personality, and until the end of the last mission, I'm not sure if I can actually trust her (given a choice, I would have had her have a friendly fire incident, I didn't take well to her talking about how she wanted to control chip me and how wonderful Cerberus was, my Paragon Shep hated her). I did take her on a few key missions in my first playthrough, as unfortunately she really is the perfect complement for Adepts, which is my "canon" class for Shep and if you don't know what's going to be in a mission, which you don't always in your first playthrough, she's a very safe pick, because of her versatility.

She's certainly not "essential", there's no mission I haven't done without her, but she does make a lot of them easier than otherwise.

Modifié par Taritu, 13 avril 2011 - 08:49 .

[Relix28]

DAT ASS.

/thread

[JayhartRIC]

Miranda and Thane plus Adept Shepard means constant biotic light show. By far my easiest SM Insanity run. Sometimes I could kill two Collectors in flight before they landed in front of me.

Modifié par JayhartRIC, 14 avril 2011 - 07:40 .

[DxWill10]

Kasumi is generally only useful in shield-heavy missions, like Tali's recruitment mission.

I play Hardcore/Insanity exclusively and have truly comprehended miranda's usefulness. Not only can she strip every defense in the game, she is capable of warp explosions. Then to top it off, her Passive squad weapon/health increases.

If that isn't enough for you, then maybe you don't realize you're looking for reasons NOT to take her. Maybe you're turned off by sexy women?

[Ahglock]

DxWill10 wrote...

Kasumi is generally only useful in shield-heavy missions, like Tali's recruitment mission.

I play Hardcore/Insanity exclusively and have truly comprehended miranda's usefulness. Not only can she strip every defense in the game, she is capable of warp explosions. Then to top it off, her Passive squad weapon/health increases.

If that isn't enough for you, then maybe you don't realize you're looking for reasons NOT to take her. Maybe you're turned off by sexy women?

Actually Kasumi is awesome in any mission thaks to her back stab. Its damage is great, but mos timportantly whatever is in the area targets her for the next couple of seconds and she is basically invulnerable in that time frame.  But it is a heavy damage single person attack combined with a 2 second drone.  saved my bacon on more than one occasion.  

[Kabanya101]

She can master warp and overload, perfect for taking all types of barriers down. And her passive grants bonuses to health for the whole squad. And she gets an extra point to also give her slam (Jacob also gets and extra point too, but powers are useless). And she's hot too. Is that too weird to say since she's not real??? But regardless, she's the best character to take with, the only downfall is her outfit. Good on the ship, but where's the armor in battle? Loincloth doesn't stop bullets, armor plating does.

Modifié par Kabanya101, 14 avril 2011 - 11:02 .

[AK404]

Decided to give Miranda a go while playing my Soldier, and found her much more suited to the 'in your face' combat style.

I've never disliked her, per se (since I was reading Diamond Age in-between ME2 sessions), but I've always wondered what made her so valued besides her passive bonus.

[naledgeborn]

JayhartRIC wrote...

Miranda and Thane plus Adept Shepard means constant biotic light show. By far my easiest SM Insanity run. Sometimes I could kill two Collectors in flight before they landed in front of me.

I already do this with my soldier. Try hitting one in mid air with barriers dropped with a Concussive Shot. Very funny.

[IMNWME]

 Miranda + Kasumi are my default squad for Insanity when I'm playing Vanguard.  Miranda's passive dmg bonus is pretty noticeable when you've only got one shot, especially on NG+.

I won't lie, though, Kasumi's the VG's best friend with IFG and her 25% cd reduction from Master Infiltrator.  Charge into a group of mooks, shotgun one, IFG, and then clean up with reload trick.  You can just charge, charge, charge, even without sinosleep reflexes.

[Influ]

@IMNWME
The CD reduction from Kasumi's passive is bugged and doesn't work. I'd suggest ignoring the passive altogether.

[znorky1337]

IMNWME wrote...

 Miranda + Kasumi are my default squad for Insanity when I'm playing Vanguard.  Miranda's passive dmg bonus is pretty noticeable when you've only got one shot, especially on NG+.

I won't lie, though, Kasumi's the VG's best friend with IFG and her 25% cd reduction from Master Infiltrator.  Charge into a group of mooks, shotgun one, IFG, and then clean up with reload trick.  You can just charge, charge, charge, even without sinosleep reflexes.

This.

Miranda is an auxiliary character that complements almost everyone of your team mates perfectly.
She and Kasumi go very well together.

[Darkstar Aurora]

[Edit: see reply below, difficulty with text formatting drafted in MS Word]

Modifié par Darkstar Aurora, 15 avril 2011 - 02:12 .

[Darkstar Aurora]

I think the original poster asked a very valid and unexamined question. There was not an assertion that Miranda is “useless”, nor was there even an suggestion that one cannot find some use in any given squad. As I see it, what is being questioned is why there is an unspoken assumption that Miranda MUST always be the default choice for any given ground team, when you eventually have up to eleven other operatives each of whom may be far more well suited to a given task or mission.

Many people choose squad members for preference of the character, to fill a specific niche or weakness in a squad, or because they want to do a playthrough with a single consistent team. I have done all three, but when I choose to play tactically I use team members where they are the strongest.

In the early game she is essential, and can easily fill any given supplementary combat role. However, with each step of progress you make past Horizon your team gains new recruits, new powers, new weapons, and more upgrades. Versatility becomes less relevant when enemies are more specific and roles (both in combat and in the suicide mission tasks) become more specialized across the team. Each addition to the squad further diminishes the necessity of using Miranda on every single mission, even though she can be moderately effective in the largest variety of situations

In virtually every mission you can obtain information on what enemies you are likely to encounter, whether it is from conversations with characters on hub worlds, planet and signal analysis from EDI, or reviewing your Codex. Thus, the game gives you an idea of what team members will be most effective. The majority of enemies in the game fall into six groups (Blue Suns, Blood Pack, Collectors, Eclipse, Geth, and Husks/Wildlife). I find that compared to each group, every squad member can be categorized as either highly effective, moderately effective, or ineffective.

In terms of Miranda I find she is moderately effective against every group, and can bring something of use to any encounter. However compared to a specialist she is a less optimal choice, and is highly effective against very few:

Specifically, I find Miranda to be highly effective against
* Enemies encountered with a various range of resistances, such as Eclipse mercenaries.
* Enemies with resistances inconsistent with their type, such as armored Mechs.
* Missions where you are facing multiple types of enemies in relatively equal number, such as the Dossier missions on Omega and Korlus.

Beyond that I only use her for missions where it makes sense from a character perspective (Jack: Subject Zero, Jacob: The Gift of Greatness, or the center of the Collector Base), or if the squad does not have a suitable specialist, or if I am doing a consistent-team playthrough.

Ideally, this is how I select squad members when I am playing tactical perspective, and in each case I find substituting Miranda would impair effectiveness rather than augment it:

Blood Pack- Mordin and Thane
Blue Suns- Kasumi and Zaeed
Collectors- Jack and Samara
Eclipse- Miranda and Garrus
Geth- Tali and Legion
Husks/Wildlife- Grunt and Jacob

As for specifics regarding Warp Detonations, I feel they can be a situational in effectiveness, and given the number of participants can often be quite inefficient. In the implied scenario mentioned a few times in this thread one would have Miranda drop their defenses, Shepard use slam, and Thane use Unstable Warp. In other words all three squad members are placing their powers into cooldown for 500 armor/barrier damage everyone in a 7 meter radius and a Newton force explosion.

If you are going to be facing that many armored and barrier-creating enemies then you would be better off using specialized squad members. Samara can deal 500 armor/barrier damage to everyone in a 3 meter radius on her own with Area Reave, Jack can suspend them all indefinitely in a Pull Field, and while their biotics cool down they both can then fire Squad Warp Ammo either to finish off the trapped targets, or strip the armor/barriers from others. The important point here is that they can repeat it all over again before Thane and Miranda’s powers would have even cooled down...and more importantly without Shepard doing anything at all.

Likewise, I do feel that Cerberus Officer is a bit subjective “The best passive ability in the game”. The health bonus can be quite negligible compared to incoming weapon damage, and the relative value of a bonus to your weapon damage is conditional on how much (or how little) the team relies on weaponry. While all classes need weapons, three of the classes use their powers more often than the others. If you are in a squad where all three members focus on tech and biotic specialization then Miranda’s passive bonus to weapon damage is going to be considerably less valuable than say Jack’s passive ability recharge her Pull Field every 5 seconds (a power that turn gives you a +100% weapon damage to the health-half of their lifebar, and effectively reduces that enemies’ weapon/power damage by –100% respectively).

I like Miranda, both for her character progression, dialog, visual style, and her abilities. But I also think there is an overinflated and unexamined mythology that has evolved around her as being the essential squad member when in fact, just like the rest of the team, she is only "essential" or the "alpha choice" in a handful of situations.

Modifié par Darkstar Aurora, 15 avril 2011 - 02:20 .

[Aklis]

Relix28 wrote...

DAT ASS.

/thread

Word.