667 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

Tharion wrote...

Good, DA2 blows. It's the worst game Bioware has released in ages, it's so bad that once I finally drag myself to play the rest of the game I will never again play it. rather play Origin for the 5th time than suffer through this poor fps crap.

Actually,   I  recently had a strange experience and I urge everyone who has Both games to do the same thing I  just did:    Finish DA2.  Then go back and start a new game of Origins.

I did that this weekend and was blown away all over again.  I had forgotten how polished DA:O's gameplay was.  I had forgotten how perfectly paced the story line was;  how amazingly detailed and tactical the combat was.   How satisfying the character level advancement  is.... and  How much *better* the graphics  and UI are (playing on PC).   I had forgotten just how *solid* DA:O really is  on every level, compared to DA2.

Initially, I enjoyed DA2.   But now,  (I guess you can call it hindsight?), I truly can't see myself playing it again.  perhaps a few months from now when I 're-forget' Origins or whatever, I'll be able to  do another DA2 run,   but right now  I can't bridge the chasm of difference in quality between the two games.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 avril 2011 - 09:03 .

[DKJaigen]

Strange i played DAO and i remember it differently. I remember how horrid the gameplay was with its horrid speed and animations. i remember how unrealistic the story was. with 4 of your allies needing assistance of the grey warden at the same time a blight happens. I remember the annoying characters where leliana was talking about shoes , alistair whining about duncan and morrigan ****ing about everything .

I remember the messy class system where their was little difference between the warriors and rogues not to mention the whole gamut of talents that ranged from the utterly useless to the utterly gamebreaking.

[AkiKishi]

Reinveil wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

You keep biching and not providing any decent feedback. If you hate this game so much plz remove it from your pc and ****** of from this forum. im getting very tired of your posts. Also you dont seem to realise that if a game fails  bioware or the francise will be canned by EA. Trust me you do not wish to see DA2 fail because their will not be a DA afterwards ever again.

...makes me wonder if there's some kind of underlying mental illness or potentially dangerous anger issue at work.

This is common to a lot of fanboys and it's fear. Fear that if you don't embrace the game even though it's poor, it will mean the end of the DA franchise and or Bioware. It's not an irrational fear, EA have done this sort of thing before with underperforming studios and "unrealistic" deadlines.

But that is not a good enough reason to give something a pass.Which is something fanboys can't seem to grasp.

The mass market don't care about such things, they go from one shiny thing to the next, this is why DA2's sales are falling and why Bioware is desperately trying to pad the numbers by giving away ME2.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 10 avril 2011 - 10:12 .

[Yrkoon]

DKJaigen wrote...
 Also you dont seem to realise that if a game fails  bioware or the francise will be canned by EA.  Trust me you do not wish to see DA2 fail because their will not be a DA afterwards ever again.

  2 things.

First off, contrary to what they teach in those motivational, self-help programs,  "wishing" for something  does not guarantee its occurance.  Therefore,  verbally attacking someone  for  wishing DA2's failure is... a pointless waste of time.

Second, if DA2 fails, it's not going to be our fault.  It's going to be Bioware's fault.  It's their game.  They're the ones who created it, remember?    If you're *really* worried  that DA2 will fail, then your energy and time on here would be better  spent bashing bioware for not producing a more  popularly received game, yes?  Hell, you could even be all diplomat-like with your message.     I suggest something like this:

Dear Bioware,

Hi.  It's me.  I  absolutely LOOOOVVVVVEEED DA2.  Loved it.  Adored it.  However,   you seem to have  turned off a bunch of people  with it, and chances are, DA2 will not outsell DA:O  as a result.    Since I care so much for the Franchise and would love to see a DA3, please.... come up with something... some sort of formula to  make more people happy.

Yours Truely

Me.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 avril 2011 - 10:41 .

[DKJaigen]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

You keep biching and not providing any decent feedback. If you hate this game so much plz remove it from your pc and ****** of from this forum. im getting very tired of your posts. Also you dont seem to realise that if a game fails  bioware or the francise will be canned by EA. Trust me you do not wish to see DA2 fail because their will not be a DA afterwards ever again.

...makes me wonder if there's some kind of underlying mental illness or potentially dangerous anger issue at work.

This is common to a lot of fanboys and it's fear. Fear that if you don't embrace the game even though it's poor, it will mean the end of the DA franchise and or Bioware. It's not an irrational fear, EA have done this sort of thing before with underperforming studios and "unrealistic" deadlines.

But that is not a good enough reason to give something a pass.Which is something fanboys can't seem to grasp.

The mass market don't care about such things, they go from one shiny thing to the next, this is why DA2's sales are falling and why Bioware is desperately trying to pad the numbers by giving away ME2.

It does not concern me if DA francise gets canned or bioware dissolved  there are always other games i can play. But some idiots on this forum need to realise that behind bioware there are actually people at work .If they get fired then that is a lot human misery. If you wish a game to fail then you basically means that you wish people to be fired. If you wish this on people because they ruined you favorite game then you are a jackass.

Yo can can always say that you dont like the game i dont care because its your opinion. But seriously some people to grow up.

[Morroian]

BobSmith101 wrote...

This is common to a lot of fanboys and it's fear.

Thats a pathetic insulting response. One could just as easily argue about haters making assumptions about the sales trying to find a justification for their opinion about the game or those bashing Bioware personally for simply making a game that they didn't like, treating it like some sort of personal betrayal. What does such a response say about them.

[Yrkoon]

DKJaigen wrote...


It does not concern me if DA francise gets canned or bioware dissolved  there are always other games i can play. But some idiots on this forum need to realise that behind bioware there are actually people at work .If they get fired then that is a lot human misery.

Hmm...  Nope.   This new argument of yours is even less emotionally relevant than your last one about the DA franchise being canned.

  In such scenarios, Good Game developers  tend to get re-hired to other companies.  Sometimes they even start their own companies.  (look at Obsidian.  It's  a whole  studio made up of Black Isle and interplay refugees.  And they're  doing great for themselves) 


I wouldn't worry about  these people if I were you.   Real talent always  finds a way to rise  back up

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 avril 2011 - 11:58 .

[fchopin]

Yrkoon wrote...

I wouldn't worry about  these people if I were you.   Real talent always  finds a way to rise  back up

+1

[Urazz]

I gotta say if you hoped that posting the week 4 sales would change things at bioware, you are horribly mistaken.

First, VGCharts is basically considered a work of fiction.  If I recall is it even able to chart digital sales on things like Steam and the like?

The second thing is that you don't even consider the time period that each game was sold in.  Dragon Age: Origins was sold during the holiday season when alot more people had money to spend on gifts.  Dragon Age 2 was released in the beginning of March.

[byzantine horse]

Urazz wrote...

I gotta say if you hoped that posting the week 4 sales would change things at bioware, you are horribly mistaken.

VGCharts being inaccurate aside, Bioware and EA are the first to know of how many copies are actually sold. They're probably the only ones who know for sure, throwing more or less inaccurate numbers at them won't convince them of anything.

However, yes, the game is selling bad, especially compared to Origins. Bioware will know this, they probably know already. They have afaik acknowledged flaws in the game, but what they will do with that knowledge is left for the future to decide. Hopefully they do something about it, and quite frankly I can't see Dragon Age being dropped after just one game that didn't live up to its expectations, they have invested too much already and dropping the ball now would be a greater failure than DA2 selling bad ever could be.

I am quite confident that we'll see DA3 down the line, even EA must realize that if they return to the franchise's roots with the third installment there is real money to be made. There really aren't many RPGs out there, and even if the crowd isn't that big it is too big to let go of.

They tried something new with DA2, tried to change things and it backfired. Big deal. **** happens. If every company that had an idea that backfired at them decided to go "no, let's just quit and never do this again" we'd not see alot of products out there. One has to fail sometimes in order to succeed. You can scream about Blizzard "never failing" as much as you like, but WoW is a travesty and they know it, making money from bad products is nothing new. Look at Call of Duty.

Modifié par byzantine horse, 10 avril 2011 - 12:45 .

[AkiKishi]

DKJaigen wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

You keep biching and not providing any decent feedback. If you hate this game so much plz remove it from your pc and ****** of from this forum. im getting very tired of your posts. Also you dont seem to realise that if a game fails  bioware or the francise will be canned by EA. Trust me you do not wish to see DA2 fail because their will not be a DA afterwards ever again.

...makes me wonder if there's some kind of underlying mental illness or potentially dangerous anger issue at work.

This is common to a lot of fanboys and it's fear. Fear that if you don't embrace the game even though it's poor, it will mean the end of the DA franchise and or Bioware. It's not an irrational fear, EA have done this sort of thing before with underperforming studios and "unrealistic" deadlines.

But that is not a good enough reason to give something a pass.Which is something fanboys can't seem to grasp.

The mass market don't care about such things, they go from one shiny thing to the next, this is why DA2's sales are falling and why Bioware is desperately trying to pad the numbers by giving away ME2.

It does not concern me if DA francise gets canned or bioware dissolved  there are always other games i can play. But some idiots on this forum need to realise that behind bioware there are actually people at work .If they get fired then that is a lot human misery. If you wish a game to fail then you basically means that you wish people to be fired. If you wish this on people because they ruined you favorite game then you are a jackass.

Yo can can always say that you dont like the game i dont care because its your opinion. But seriously some people to grow up.

Grow up ? I take responsibility for my work, others do likewise. I'm not giving the game a free pass , it get's judged soley on what it is. I don't care who makes it, or why.

fchopin wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

I wouldn't worry about  these people if I were you.   Real talent always  finds a way to rise  back up

+1

Well said.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 10 avril 2011 - 12:50 .

[Selene Moonsong]

Marionetten wrote...

Persephone wrote...

That's just it, my opinion. No more or less valid than yours.

It has nothing to do with opinions. It has to do with how the game was designed on a basic level.

In Dragon Age: Origins you can even redeem the main antagonist and get him as a party member. In Dragon Age II everyone goes ape**** and tries to kill you regardless of your previous actions. I expected three different endings at the very least. Instead, I just got one overwhelmingly disappointing one. Probably to pave way for future DLC installments.

Actually, opinion has everything to do with it, just as you expressed your own opinion in response.

[magicwins]

Brilliant *slow clap*

DIAF DA2.

[DKJaigen]

Yrkoon wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...


It does not concern me if DA francise gets canned or bioware dissolved  there are always other games i can play. But some idiots on this forum need to realise that behind bioware there are actually people at work .If they get fired then that is a lot human misery.

Hmm...  Nope.   This new argument of yours is even less emotionally relevant than your last one about the DA franchise being canned.

  In such scenarios, Good Game developers  tend to get re-hired to other companies.  Sometimes they even start their own companies.  (look at Obsidian.  It's  a whole  studio made up of Black Isle and interplay refugees.  And they're  doing great for themselves) 


I wouldn't worry about  these people if I were you.   Real talent always  finds a way to rise  back up

You obviously dont have any experience with this so explaining such a situation is wasted on you. Anyway wishing for someone's success instead of their rune is normal human behavior. anyway the only one who have all the numbers is bioware. they decide if this is a success or not

Modifié par DKJaigen, 10 avril 2011 - 01:00 .

[Lehanna]

Let me reach into the future with my magical fortune telling powers....

"EA dictates the Dragon Age IP be shelved and the development team split into the Mass Effect and The Old Republic teams. Dragon Age lives on only as a Facebook minigame, while TOR and ME franchises get pimped out like it's the first night of shore leave."

(I don't really have any powers, I just know what EA does to game IPs)

[Ohiodruid]

Urazz wrote...

I gotta say if you hoped that posting the week 4 sales would change things at bioware, you are horribly mistaken.

First, VGCharts is basically considered a work of fiction.  If I recall is it even able to chart digital sales on things like Steam and the like?

The second thing is that you don't even consider the time period that each game was sold in.  Dragon Age: Origins was sold during the holiday season when alot more people had money to spend on gifts.  Dragon Age 2 was released in the beginning of March.

I really wish that the reflexive defenders of this game would step back for a minute.  First, the VGCharts data is quite useful for *relative* comparisons - since the data for the first and second game was collected in the same way.  You can think that the absolute total is off and still be willing to acknowledge this point. 

Second, we have an extremely obvious clue about what Bioware thinks: they are giving Mass Effect 2 away to boost DA2 sales.  If the game was selling as strongly as they had hoped they wouldn't be doing this.

Third, the timing of the game release: how does this possibly matter?  Mass Effect 2 was released after Christmas and sold tremendously well.

It's a remarkably weak argument to dismiss all data which tells a story that you don't want to hear.  I'd be prepared to believe that this game was what the people wanted, even though both my son and I found deeply disappointing.  However, when I look at the user reviews, forum feedback, and sales I see a pretty consistent picture - this game was a step back.  It's also, by the way, clear when you read between the lines of the professional reviews.  All AAA games get high rating (even the disastrous Master of Orion 3 got 65% in Metacritic, and it was so awful that it killed that franchise.)  But the reviews themselves were almost uniformly cautious or unenthusiastic, even when assigning a "high" mark.

I think this leads to a pretty simple and compelling argument: make a good game that appeals to your natural audience and you'll sell a lot of copies and get a good reception.  Try to design a game by committee to appeal to some imaginary mass audience that you don't understand and you'll please no one, sell fewer copies, and get a poor reception.

[Icinix]

Lehanna wrote...

Let me reach into the future with my magical fortune telling powers....

"EA dictates the Dragon Age IP be shelved and the development team split into the Mass Effect and The Old Republic teams. Dragon Age lives on only as a Facebook minigame, while TOR and ME franchises get pimped out like it's the first night of shore leave."

(I don't really have any powers, I just know what EA does to game IPs)

I heard words like this once...when EA bought Westwood...

I laughed at them then....I am not laughing now...



Gah..I always feel so dirty when I bring it up...but why does EA insist on purchasing these great IP's and THINKING to change them....don't they see that the IP's as they are is why they are great?? Everyone always claims it isn't EA..but the proof is their in the pudding...EA buys company..IP magically changes direction into a black hole...EA doesn't buy IP..IP continues on Merry way...

Stick to funding the dosh for the IP's EA...stay away from the games and their marketing...you'll thank me later.

[magicwins]

Ohiodruid wrote...

I really wish that the reflexive defenders of this game would step back for a minute.  First, the VGCharts data is quite useful for *relative* comparisons - since the data for the first and second game was collected in the same way.  You can think that the absolute total is off and still be willing to acknowledge this point. 

Second, we have an extremely obvious clue about what Bioware thinks: they are giving Mass Effect 2 away to boost DA2 sales.  If the game was selling as strongly as they had hoped they wouldn't be doing this.

Third, the timing of the game release: how does this possibly matter?  Mass Effect 2 was released after Christmas and sold tremendously well.

It's a remarkably weak argument to dismiss all data which tells a story that you don't want to hear.  I'd be prepared to believe that this game was what the people wanted, even though both my son and I found deeply disappointing.  However, when I look at the user reviews, forum feedback, and sales I see a pretty consistent picture - this game was a step back.  It's also, by the way, clear when you read between the lines of the professional reviews.  All AAA games get high rating (even the disastrous Master of Orion 3 got 65% in Metacritic, and it was so awful that it killed that franchise.)  But the reviews themselves were almost uniformly cautious or unenthusiastic, even when assigning a "high" mark.

I think this leads to a pretty simple and compelling argument: make a good game that appeals to your natural audience and you'll sell a lot of copies and get a good reception.  Try to design a game by committee to appeal to some imaginary mass audience that you don't understand and you'll please no one, sell fewer copies, and get a poor reception.

I predict that your well-formed and carefully worded argument will be met with a massive wall of butthurt and will instantly drown in the nerdrage.

It's why I stick to silliness and opinionated one-liners when I'm online.

[MJRick]

DKJaigen wrote...

Strange i played DAO and i remember it differently. I remember how horrid the gameplay was with its horrid speed and animations. i remember how unrealistic the story was. with 4 of your allies needing assistance of the grey warden at the same time a blight happens. I remember the annoying characters where leliana was talking about shoes , alistair whining about duncan and morrigan ****ing about everything .

I remember the messy class system where their was little difference between the warriors and rogues not to mention the whole gamut of talents that ranged from the utterly useless to the utterly gamebreaking.

Hey! but it's story was soo original and dark and darkspawn are nothing like orcs and it's totally not infested with middle of the road easy way out choices either.

[Lehanna]

EA believes that if they keep scooping up IPs and studios, they can kill the competition and find the goose that laid the golden egg in one fell swoop. EA and Activision are both places where creativity go to die, to then be processed into piles of cash.

[Icinix]

Lehanna wrote...

EA believes that if they keep scooping up IPs and studios, they can kill the competition and find the goose that laid the golden egg in one fell swoop. EA and Activision are both places where creativity go to die, to then be processed into piles of cash.

The gaming industry needs tighter anti-monolopy laws and more protection for developers...I'm sick of seeing good games disintegrate because the parent company decided they wanted to use the IP to compete with another companies game.

The other thing is I believe that EA has already found the goose that laid the golden egg - in fact..they've found several. They force squeezed a few eggs out and because of this they weren't rich and nutrious, the goose had nothing left to give..impatient they couldn't be arsed nurturing it to provide more..so they ate it.

[cljqnsnyc]

Ohiodruid wrote...

Urazz wrote...

I gotta say if you hoped that posting the week 4 sales would change things at bioware, you are horribly mistaken.

First, VGCharts is basically considered a work of fiction.  If I recall is it even able to chart digital sales on things like Steam and the like?

The second thing is that you don't even consider the time period that each game was sold in.  Dragon Age: Origins was sold during the holiday season when alot more people had money to spend on gifts.  Dragon Age 2 was released in the beginning of March.

I really wish that the reflexive defenders of this game would step back for a minute.  First, the VGCharts data is quite useful for *relative* comparisons - since the data for the first and second game was collected in the same way.  You can think that the absolute total is off and still be willing to acknowledge this point. 

Second, we have an extremely obvious clue about what Bioware thinks: they are giving Mass Effect 2 away to boost DA2 sales.  If the game was selling as strongly as they had hoped they wouldn't be doing this.

Third, the timing of the game release: how does this possibly matter?  Mass Effect 2 was released after Christmas and sold tremendously well.

It's a remarkably weak argument to dismiss all data which tells a story that you don't want to hear.  I'd be prepared to believe that this game was what the people wanted, even though both my son and I found deeply disappointing.  However, when I look at the user reviews, forum feedback, and sales I see a pretty consistent picture - this game was a step back.  It's also, by the way, clear when you read between the lines of the professional reviews.  All AAA games get high rating (even the disastrous Master of Orion 3 got 65% in Metacritic, and it was so awful that it killed that franchise.)  But the reviews themselves were almost uniformly cautious or unenthusiastic, even when assigning a "high" mark.

I think this leads to a pretty simple and compelling argument: make a good game that appeals to your natural audience and you'll sell a lot of copies and get a good reception.  Try to design a game by committee to appeal to some imaginary mass audience that you don't understand and you'll please no one, sell fewer copies, and get a poor reception.

I was about to post in response to the comment above you but you've already made the point I had in mind. I'd like to add one other thing that seems to get overlooked by the defenders of DA2.

DA2 is a sequel...(well, it's not, but for argument sake that's how I'll describe it)....to a highly successful game and had the presupposed benefit of an established audience. That fact alone should have driven sales under typical circumstances. DAO was an original title that had to stand on it's own merits.  It continued to sell well, long after the holiday rush due to the growing word of mouth.  In fact, Bioware only recently bundled it with DAA and all other dlc. This is hardly unusual since they're related. I don't understand the need to defend DA2. If it was as great as some think it is, it would speak for itself.

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 10 avril 2011 - 03:51 .

[Sen4lifE]

If you add up the first 4 weeks of one of the DA:O platforms (Example: Xbox) and divide it by for and the same for DAII, you'll notice there's not a significant difference in sales; though, they're not going to reach their goal of selling more.


Edit:

And, being a sequel, it is affected by it's predecessor.  Believe it or not, not everyone liked Dragon Age: Origins (/surpriseFace Yes, it's true!  Some of the gaming community actually has different tastes than you!).  So, if they don't like the first, they're not going to like the second.  However DA:O did get a lot of positive reviews, sequels in general are affected this way.  They either do really good by catching more people's attention, or they do bad because even though there are radical changes, people don't even bother looking at reviews because the first one made them rage quit.

Modifié par Sen4lifE, 10 avril 2011 - 01:57 .

[AkiKishi]

Icinix wrote...

Lehanna wrote...

EA believes that if they keep scooping up IPs and studios, they can kill the competition and find the goose that laid the golden egg in one fell swoop. EA and Activision are both places where creativity go to die, to then be processed into piles of cash.

The gaming industry needs tighter anti-monolopy laws and more protection for developers...I'm sick of seeing good games disintegrate because the parent company decided they wanted to use the IP to compete with another companies game.

The other thing is I believe that EA has already found the goose that laid the golden egg - in fact..they've found several. They force squeezed a few eggs out and because of this they weren't rich and nutrious, the goose had nothing left to give..impatient they couldn't be arsed nurturing it to provide more..so they ate it.

Games are expensive now and to make a AAA game it looks like you need the backing of a large publisher.

[Marionetten]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Actually, opinion has everything to do with it, just as you expressed your own opinion in response.

No, I described an actual scenario which takes place in the actual game. Being able to redeem Loghain has nothing to do with my opinions. It's simply there as an option. Meanwhile, these options are almost completely absent in Dragon Age II save Feynriel and some other quests with no real relation to the main plot.