667 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

Vicious wrote...

Yeah, this thread was created for one reason. You and others don't like DA2's changes from DA:O, and are seeking every single way to discredit the game, in an effort to say 'look here, you didn't make xxx money by doing what *I* wanted, maybe you will do what I want next time.'

Yech, no wonder they don't want to cater to you guys. Your approval vanishes overnight. The CoD crowd will buy every CoD game, good or not.

Not the case. DA2 was streamlined to be mass market and sell in mass market numbers. That was Biowares goal with DA2. This thread exists as a reminder of a fallacy of that logic.

[Dark83]

If enough "fans" say they're going to boycott DA3 because of DA2, then we'll end up with "Dragon Age 3: Modern Warfare".

...which sounds hilarious.

...and then have Mass Effect 3 be an isometric RPG with a tactical camera. YES.

[Reinveil]

Vicious wrote...

Yech, no wonder they don't want to cater to you guys. Your approval vanishes overnight. The CoD crowd will buy every CoD game, good or not.

It should vanish if they release a shoddy game.  A lot of people hold the opinion that it's a shoddy game.  This isn't difficult.  I'm not going to blow smoke up someone's ass if I think they did a poor job on something I paid for.  That sort of apathy breeds laziness.

And what are you implying with your second statement, that Bioware fans should be more like CoD fans?  That having standards and being critical is a bad thing?  Or that it's only a bad thing when it's a view you don't share?

Modifié par Reinveil, 15 avril 2011 - 09:46 .

[billy the squid]

Vicious wrote...

Yeah, this thread was created for one reason. You and others don't like DA2's changes from DA:O, and are seeking every single way to discredit the game, in an effort to say 'look here, you didn't make xxx money by doing what *I* wanted, maybe you will do what I want next time.'

Yech, no wonder they don't want to cater to you guys. Your approval vanishes overnight. The CoD crowd will buy every CoD game, good or not.

Whoa!  Are we still attempting to perpetuate the fantasy that the criticism is a conspiracy to destroy the games credibility?Dragon Age 2 's lack luster performance has done a fantastic job of discrediting itself, it doesn't need much help from us to do that.

These threads serve as a reminder that making things more accessible does not = simplicity, by illustrating how concepts workr via clearer explanation should be different from simplifying underlying game mechanics. Certain concepts will always be harder/ more complex to understand by their very nature, it does not make them bad, and therefore should not be fixed simply because an individual wishes to understand it with a cursory glance.

This insane attempt to make all games appeal to all types of players of any age is doomed to fail and the quicker the message gets through the better.

Although Mr. Laidlaws comments in Gamespot appears to show that he will defend his position regarding the franchise to the bitter end

"I think the big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this. I think, as a team, we're quite happy with what we've done with Dragon Age II, and this is establishing a solid foundation that keeps a lot, in fact almost everything I want to keep about Origins, but still has tons of room to grow and, frankly, a more viable future for the franchise. It's one that's more sustainable because we brought the world to a place that's inherently more interesting than 'Yay, we beat the Blight. Good for us!'"

Although this was before the steep drop on week 4 and 5 sales. I find it interesting that the tone of the 2 Doctors in the game informer interview is far more diplomatic (and that of Chris Priestly found on other threads).

There are other people that were expecting more Dragon Age Origins and more of the spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate. Some of them have expressed disappointment. It’s something we really take seriously. We’re taking that feedback to heart and we’re seeing what we can do to continue to surprise and delight our fans in the future.

Now whether this is simply hot air, or they have actually realised that this little experiment has not worked out and are considering going back to the drawing board I don't know. We will see in DA 3, but I for one will take what has been said at face value until I see otherwise.

Modifié par billy the squid, 15 avril 2011 - 10:52 .

[DSGrant]

When Mike Laidlaw was touting the 1 million sales benchmark, I was thinking to myself, he shouldn't be breaking out the champagne quite yet because most of those sales could be attributed to the pre-orders and the pre-review fervor of fans, all of which was predicated on the awesomeness that was Origins. It's unfortunate that Bioware doesn't appear to be acknowledging that the initial success of DA2 is completely owed to the success of Origins, because that acknowledgement would at least indicate some measure of hope for DA3 in that they would revisit the wisdom of this "new direction" and its departure from all the things that made Origins so good. As it stands, DA3 is likely to do very poorly when it first comes out because people like me and my wife won't be pre-ordering it and won't be buying it until we've seen some solid player reviews in the weeks following its release, but if it redeems the franchise (in other words, if it's not a disappointment like DA2 was), it will do well in the long run much like Origins did.

These sales numbers only substantiate what some of us already knew, and despite the players who thought our criticisms of DA2 were unjustified, it only proves that they are in fact in the minority. I think the "big key" here is to not make design decisions that alienate your core fanbase.

Modifié par DSGrant, 16 avril 2011 - 12:07 .

[Reinveil]

billy the squid wrote...

Although this was before the steep drop on week 4 and 5 sales. I find it interesting that the tone of the 2 Doctors in the game informer interview is far more diplomatic (and that of Chris Priestly found on other threads).

There are other people that were expecting more Dragon Age Origins and more of the spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate. Some of them have expressed disappointment. It’s something we really take seriously. We’re taking that feedback to heart and we’re seeing what we can do to continue to surprise and delight our fans in the future.

Now whether this is simply hot air, or they have actually realised that this little experiment has not worked out and are considering going back to the drawing board I don't know. We will see in DA 3, but I for one will take what has been said at face value until I see otherwise.

I'm pleased to read that quote, as it's more exemplary of the Bioware I've come to greatly respect over the years.  I don't know why so many of DAII's defenders are under the impression that we want Bioware to fail or aren't fans.  Much of the backlash stems from the high expectations we foster based on the exceptionally consistent quality of their previous titles - games we've played and loved for years now.  I cannot tell you how hyped my girlfriend and I were for this game prior to release, in part because we enjoyed Origins and in part because of who made it.  For us, the magic was just not there, and I've gone into detail plenty of times here as to why I feel that way.

I've seen some throw the claim around that "if it wasn't a Bioware game, you wouldn't have such a problem with it".  I would consider DAII mediocre at best regardless of who made it, but especially so because it was developed by Bioware.  So I suppose, in a way, they're right.  But probably not in the way they'd like.

Also, I don't have a particular agenda against Mr. Laidlaw.  I thought Jade Empire was a fantastic game, and I'd love to see it get a sequel.  I just think that perhaps his vision is not well-suited to this particular franchise, and that he's not the best choice to be speaking on behalf of it, either.  Whether you agree with what he says or not, the way he states things can come across as inflammatory and disconnected from the fans he claims to represent.

Modifié par Reinveil, 16 avril 2011 - 12:08 .

[Shatterkiss]

You might want to start a new thread with the week 5 numbers, as people might not notice that the first post has been edited.

[neppakyo]

Heres the link for the first page http://social.biowar...index/6983266/1 for the updated numbers.

[Selectric]

This makes me so happy to see.  Bioware is getting what they deserve.  Hopefully they'll learn their lesson for DA3, but considering Mike "I Should Be Fired" Laidlaw's recent comments, I'm not optimistic that they will.

[PirateT138]

Reap what you sow.

I don't hope it does so poorly that they pull the plug on the series, but this should be a wake-up call.

I like that Bioware tried to take a few chances and work on something new(ish) but it turned out to be nothing more than a polished turd.

Flush it, Bioware, go back to what worked.

[MrProliferation]

Call me a foolish optimist, but I think BW has learned some of their lesson. All the buzz on ME3 says it's going to have a lot more RPG elements. More upgrading of skills, skill trees, extensive modifications available on the weapons, and a lot of other things. I think if DA3 happens, which it might not, they will shoot for greater complexity. As much as many act like BW never listens to its fans, I think on some level they do. They don't do everything we want, and they do do quite a bit that is stupid, but to suggest they don't know or are blind to the fact and don't care that their core base is, to put it mildly, a little disappointed with aspects of the game, is going a little far. If there is a DA3, I think we'll see them dial back towards DAO somewhat. It won't be enough for most of the people here, but I think it will happen. I thought DAO was an A and DA2 was a C+, but I'll still play a C+because most games out there are F's in my opinion. For one, I enjoy DA2 MUCH more than Awakenings, which was and is still a broken bugfest of catastrophe that is part of what is gumming up DA2 with its extensive import bugs.

I mean, come on, Oghren loves you and then feels ambivalent about you? I don't care how bipolar he is, that was broken. The interaction with all the companions, as memorable as they were, was shallow, and the whole thing was way too short. All the additional specializations were gained through books, when you have companions sitting right there who could've taught all of them to you through meaningful interaction? If anything, it's Awakenings that almost turned me off this series and DA2 partially redeemed that horrible misfire.

Modifié par MrProliferation, 16 avril 2011 - 04:20 .

[NedPepper]

This is depressing. I'm replaying Origins (I'm waiting for DLC for Dragon Age 2....and now I'm scared there WON'T be any...) , and there are significant postive changes in DA 2. The speed, the streamlining of the Codex, Inventory and the much better skill trees. The game moves, Hawke is completely immersive as a character, and you really can do some great role playing. I've played three times. All three Hawkes couldn't be any more different.

DA 2 is, IMO, just as flawed, but also just as great as its predecessor. The main problem with the second game is the lack of a "world." The Dragon Age lore is brilliant and we have all these countries and cultures that are fascinating. By limiting the gamer to Kirkwall...we didn't get to really live Thedas. If there is ONE MAJOR THING to take from this is that the fanbase loves the lore, they love the multiple couintries and they want to SEE THEM.

But, I gotta be honest. People were so hellbent on burying the sequel and it shows in the sales. THe oldschool rpg players destroyed the game on so many sites that the casual player simply looked at the hate and passed. AND THAT IS A SHAME.

For all its faults, this franchise is so rich and dense and epic. To hate one game so much that you DO want the franchise to fail by writing multiple negative reviews calling it the "worst game ever" has a much far reaching effect in the digital age.

Now gamers like me who love both games may not get anymore DLC or even a third game. And that makes me bittter to this community and the gaming community in general. The game may not have lived up to expectations, and Bioware deserves some criticism, but the "devoted fanbase" has a hand in this too.

The big question I have for folks like neppakyo, who is in every thread throwing out negative pithy remarks without substance: Do you want this franchise to die? Because I don't understand that.

[Lumikki]

I agree as far I have seen Bioware does listen players. How ever, they also try alot of new stuff. Some works well, some doesn't. But they allways learn from they mistakes.

Some people say go back what worked. I say don't go back, learn from mistakes and try something different. I hell don't want to play 20 year old games, because someone says "the good old days". There really isn't other way to test does something new work, than just try it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 16 avril 2011 - 04:27 .

[NedPepper]

If Dragon Age 3 comes out and it's back to the slow, plodding circling up to the enemy, I will be so disapponted. If there is a Third game, and I hate having to preface with that, I hope they can somehow manage to find some knid of feedback where we see the quick paced action implented with a larger canvas story. There's a happy medium.

But I don't want Dragon Age Origins 3. Without growth and evolution, you get stagnant mediocrity that only appeals to a small minority that speaks the loudest.

[Elhanan]

I purchased DAO and most if not all of the DLC. I pre-ordered DA2, and received my very first Signature Ed, but may not get any future DLC. Based on some posts, this indicate my dislike with the alterations made to the game.

*BZZZZ* Wrong answer! Had an economical event, and may have to reduce purchases.

This is why I hate stats, as figures can be manipulated to mean whatever one wants them to mean. For myself, it means that sales have generated X income based on a game of which I am a part, and I will continue to support said game as I am able. Nothing more.

[neppakyo]

nedpepper wrote...
The big question I have for folks like neppakyo, who is in every thread throwing out negative pithy remarks without substance: Do you want this franchise to die? Because I don't understand that.

If the franchise continues to be like DA2? Yes, but I would be sad about it, the setting is quite a good one, and I played the crap out of origins and still like playing it to this day.

The idea for DA2 was good, but executed so poorly.

[Maverick827]

neppakyo wrote...

The idea for DA2 was good, but executed so poorly.

Actually, the idea for DA2 was good and it was executed well.

I wasn't sure if you got that memo or not so I thought I would bring it up.  Me and a majority of the fanbase got together and decided this, because such a thing happening is totally possible.  And, because it is possible, you can rest assured that my seemingly baseless statement above is actually factual and should be regarded as such by everyone.

[Shirosaki17]

Damn I'm worried it's going to hit 2 million within the first year. I thought it wouldn't.

Does EA have to announce to it's shareholders/the public how many copies have sold here soon?

[Kilshrek]

nedpepper wrote...

If Dragon Age 3 comes out and it's back to the slow, plodding circling up to the enemy, I will be so disapponted. If there is a Third game, and I hate having to preface with that, I hope they can somehow manage to find some knid of feedback where we see the quick paced action implented with a larger canvas story. There's a happy medium.

But I don't want Dragon Age Origins 3. Without growth and evolution, you get stagnant mediocrity that only appeals to a small minority that speaks the loudest.

The franchise can carry on happily without me if its more DA 2 in DA 3. Teleporting around the battlefield in combat to "make up" for "slow, plodding" action isn't my cup of tea. So is only being able to talk to my companions when there is a story element to progress. So is picking up bits and bobs around Kirkwall to supplement my companions armour without really making them customisable in any meaningful way. So is making a decision here only to see that it makes absolutely no difference there. So is finding random thugs and ruffians lurking about the same areas of Kirkwall every few years, with no real reason behind them.

There is a list but I think I'll stop there. If you're happy with DA 2, good for you, carry on. I'm not entirely happy with DA 2 so I'll say my piece until DA 3 is announced and if I don't see changes that I like then that's my money walking away with me. Like I said, the franchise can carry on without me, I'm sure it makes all the difference in the world, my purchase.

[Merced652]

Maverick827 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

The idea for DA2 was good, but executed so poorly.

Actually, the idea for DA2 was good and it was executed well.

I wasn't sure if you got that memo or not so I thought I would bring it up.  Me and a majority of the fanbase got together and decided this, because such a thing happening is totally possible.  And, because it is possible, you can rest assured that my seemingly baseless statement above is actually factual and should be regarded as such by everyone.

Whats wrong mav? Seems you're pretty desperate to play that card when the sales are so pathetic. 

[Merced652]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Damn I'm worried it's going to hit 2 million within the first year. I thought it wouldn't.

Does EA have to announce to it's shareholders/the public how many copies have sold here soon?

It might be mentioned in the quarterly fiscal reports, but since the fiscal year just ended a few weeks ago it'll be a while before we see one. 

[MyKingdomCold]

judging by the recent bestselling video games, maybe selling really well isn't indicative of quality. Then again, sales have never been indicative of quality, but it seems that no more than ever it seems to be the case.

I mean look at Pokemon Black and White they sold a combined 1 million copies in one day in the US. Kinect was and still is selling really well.

Then again, since I don't own any shares of EA stock I haven't been too worried about how many copies this game has sold. Even if I did, I wouldn't worry since the latest Madden game will probably sell another 20-30 million copies to the same people who've been buying Madden every year.

[TJSolo]

The big question I have for folks like neppakyo, who is in every thread throwing out negative pithy remarks without substance: Do you want this franchise to die? Because I don't understand that.

I don't want the franchise to die but I am not supporting the franchise any further if things stay along the path of DA2. If the franchise dies then it dies. If the franchise is able to find some audience that will support it then it will live.

But I don't want Dragon Age Origins 3. Without growth and evolution, you get stagnant mediocrity that only appeals to a small minority that speaks the loudest.

Gaming is in the tech field and is always changing anyway. Games naturally evolve as technology advances. The fear mongering about stagnation is baseless and if mediocrity leads 4+ million sales then so be it.

[Kilshrek]

Significantly short of the "Hope it hits 10 mil" goal I would say. DA 2 sales that is. If they're not flying off the shelves now, and even with a free copy of ME 2 thrown in, I don't see DA 2 flying off the shelves in 3, 6, 9 months from now.

[Shirosaki17]

It's $50 at Walmart for all copies of the game. It's been like this for at least a week. There are older games that have been out a bit longer that are still $60.