667 réponses à ce sujet

[Melca36]

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

If Dragon Age 3 comes out and it's back to the slow, plodding circling up to the enemy, I will be so disapponted. If there is a Third game, and I hate having to preface with that, I hope they can somehow manage to find some knid of feedback where we see the quick paced action implented with a larger canvas story. There's a happy medium.

But I don't want Dragon Age Origins 3. Without growth and evolution, you get stagnant mediocrity that only appeals to a small minority that speaks the loudest.

Exploding bodies from backstabbing is NOT evolution

Sorry but waves of enemies dropping from the ceiling is NOT evolution.

Pick up and Delivery quests is NOT evolution.

DA:2 had some good moments but it did not help that the developers pandered to one fanbase and tried to appeal to a group of gamers who dont want depth in their games.

Hopefully they will come up with a reasonable compromise that appeals to ALL fans and not just the group who want instant gratification and everything handed to them.

There is a Mod if you dislike the Gibbing.

Couldn't care less about waves or where enemies spawn. Both DAO and DAII were...um...equally shoddy there.

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

*Prepares to be flayed for heresy*

Sorry you hated Origins. Its too bad you can't appreciate the good elements it did have.

I don't hate DA:2  but its NOT a perfect game like you think it is.  The 2nd ACT is the BEST of all acts...writing wise.

The Third Act was rushed and should have had more development.  We barely got to know Orsino or Meredith.

I just want a reasonable compromise. I am college educated and I resent being considered stupid.  

Hopefully they will learn from the mistakes made and appeal to all fans and not just one group. Thats all I ask.

And I want a FADE that lasts more than freaking 15 minutes.

[Radwar]

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Yes. Mike Laidlaw (Who isn't my fave dev btw) clearly isn't permitted to have an opinion that differs from yours. And he dares to stick by it too. The SACRILEGE!

Hypocrisy abounds.

It isn't the fact that he had a different opinion which bothered me, but they way he acted towards DAO. His responses came off like DAO was a second rated game and DA2 was the mother of all games. I'd have to be a complete idiot to fall for this.

So what if he believes this? Is there some sort of code demanding that DAO be worshipped or something?

I prefer DAII to DAO myself. (I'd not be as critical as Mr. Laidlaw, however)

If he actually believes this then he should shut up about it out of respect to the gamer's who loves DAO and to the lead designer who made DAO (Laidlaw was only lead designer for the console versions after the major part of DAO for PC was done). DAO was a better RPG, period in almost all aspects, sure DA2 made some improvements but they were few, it did make alot of setbacks though. This is the general consensus, you just have to look at the sales (minus the pre-orders based on Biowares reputation which is taking a hard hit, plus on DAO's reputation), the ratings and the general discussion on gaming boards). I browse alot on gaming boards, not just Bioware's boards and the negative reactions far outweight the positive reactions. Let's just wait and see how much award's DA2 gets compared to DAO, including game of the year.

So DAO and those who love it deserve respect, yet those who love and prefer DAII do not? I see your logic....

"A better RPG, period" ....ah yes. Nobody may disagree with that and live.

I do not give a damn about "general consensus" messages, if the quantity of followers guaranteed success, many a mediocre piece of entertainment would be universally worshipped. Is Britney Spears a better singer than Maria Callas because she is selling more than Callas ever will? See, I can do it too.

Why should I care about awards again? Or the comparison to the sacred monster called DAO?

Are you serious?

How many awards did DAO get, including game of the year? Seriously if you want to come off as an idiot, the right way is to say that  the predecessor of that particular game is a second rated game (+ add the fact that this game was released by the company you work for). DAO was made by Laidlaw's teammate on the Bioware staff, and he has to give him respect. You don't come off and act like one of your teammate's game was underrated just to to bolster your own game, that's pathetic, period, especially after all the awards DAO garnered. You risk coming off as a complete moron if your game isn't atleast as popular and highly rated (oops, guess that isn't going to happen).

"I do not give a damn about "general consensus" messages, if the quantity of followers guaranteed success, "
I will stop you there, this line just showed me that you are not to be taken seriously.

"Why should I care about awards again? Or the comparison to the sacred monster called DAO?"

What you care about doesn't matter, but it should matter to Bioware since awards means more sales not only for this particular game but the reputation of the company as a whole and all the games that comes out after it.

I'm sorry but due to your responses, I can clearly see that common sense isn't your strong point, so I'll stop wasting my time with you.

Modifié par Radwar, 16 avril 2011 - 07:25 .

[Melca36]

Melca36 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

If Dragon Age 3 comes out and it's back to the slow, plodding circling up to the enemy, I will be so disapponted. If there is a Third game, and I hate having to preface with that, I hope they can somehow manage to find some knid of feedback where we see the quick paced action implented with a larger canvas story. There's a happy medium.

But I don't want Dragon Age Origins 3. Without growth and evolution, you get stagnant mediocrity that only appeals to a small minority that speaks the loudest.

Exploding bodies from backstabbing is NOT evolution

Sorry but waves of enemies dropping from the ceiling is NOT evolution.

Pick up and Delivery quests is NOT evolution.

DA:2 had some good moments but it did not help that the developers pandered to one fanbase and tried to appeal to a group of gamers who dont want depth in their games.

Hopefully they will come up with a reasonable compromise that appeals to ALL fans and not just the group who want instant gratification and everything handed to them.

Why do you hate Origins so much??

There would not be a DA:2 if there was no Origins.

[TJSolo]

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAO did not have more Fedex quests than DA2.

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

You have got to be kidding me. The entire premise of DA2's combat was make it faster, more visceral in order to increase the gratification some people would get out it.

[Tommy6860]

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

If Dragon Age 3 comes out and it's back to the slow, plodding circling up to the enemy, I will be so disapponted. If there is a Third game, and I hate having to preface with that, I hope they can somehow manage to find some knid of feedback where we see the quick paced action implented with a larger canvas story. There's a happy medium.

But I don't want Dragon Age Origins 3. Without growth and evolution, you get stagnant mediocrity that only appeals to a small minority that speaks the loudest.

Exploding bodies from backstabbing is NOT evolution

Sorry but waves of enemies dropping from the ceiling is NOT evolution.

Pick up and Delivery quests is NOT evolution.

DA:2 had some good moments but it did not help that the developers pandered to one fanbase and tried to appeal to a group of gamers who dont want depth in their games.

Hopefully they will come up with a reasonable compromise that appeals to ALL fans and not just the group who want instant gratification and everything handed to them.

There is a Mod if you dislike the Gibbing.

Couldn't care less about waves or where enemies spawn. Both DAO and DAII were...um...equally shoddy there.

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

*Prepares to be flayed for heresy*

Except what you call Feddex quests are not "forced" on you to perform in Origins. In DA2, you have to do these in order to get to the end of the first two acts. And they nearly all are Feddex quests. Also DA2 by far has more of those quests, and they have little to do, if any at all, with the main plot. I felt as if I wondering around doing these chores for 'what on earth?' reasons, only to earn enough money to get into the DRs , and even when I achieved that amount, I still had to finish certain remaining Feddex quests. Add in unrealistic combat sequences and you nearly have DMC, Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden rolled into some facsimile of an RPG.

If you really got more gratificatiion from playing DA2 than you did Origins, I think that's great (I am being genuine, not facetious). But as an RPG following in the namesake of Dragon Age advertised as a sequel, I hardly felt I was playing an RPG, as much as I was an action adventure of some family within some context of Dragon Age.

[Persephone]

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

If Dragon Age 3 comes out and it's back to the slow, plodding circling up to the enemy, I will be so disapponted. If there is a Third game, and I hate having to preface with that, I hope they can somehow manage to find some knid of feedback where we see the quick paced action implented with a larger canvas story. There's a happy medium.

But I don't want Dragon Age Origins 3. Without growth and evolution, you get stagnant mediocrity that only appeals to a small minority that speaks the loudest.

Exploding bodies from backstabbing is NOT evolution

Sorry but waves of enemies dropping from the ceiling is NOT evolution.

Pick up and Delivery quests is NOT evolution.

DA:2 had some good moments but it did not help that the developers pandered to one fanbase and tried to appeal to a group of gamers who dont want depth in their games.

Hopefully they will come up with a reasonable compromise that appeals to ALL fans and not just the group who want instant gratification and everything handed to them.

There is a Mod if you dislike the Gibbing.

Couldn't care less about waves or where enemies spawn. Both DAO and DAII were...um...equally shoddy there.

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

*Prepares to be flayed for heresy*

Sorry you hated Origins. Its too bad you can't appreciate the good elements it did have.

I don't hate DA:2  but its NOT a perfect game like you think it is.  The 2nd ACT is the BEST of all acts...writing wise.

The Third Act was rushed and should have had more development.  We barely got to know Orsino or Meredith.

I just want a reasonable compromise. I am college educated and I resent being considered stupid.  

Hopefully they will learn from the mistakes made and appeal to all fans and not just one group. Thats all I ask.

And I want a FADE that lasts more than freaking 15 minutes.

Oh no no no, I did not hate DAO. I enjoyed it immensely. (You're speaking to a fellow Alistair fangirl here!)

And I do not think DAII is perfect. Neither is DAO.

And I agree with everything else in your post! :happy:

[Persephone]

Radwar wrote...

Are you serious?

How many awards did DAO get, including game of the year? Seriously if you want to come off as a idiot, the right way is to say that  the predecessor of that particular game is a second rated game (+ add the fact that this game was released by the company you work for). DAO was made by Laidlaw's teammate on the Bioware staff, and he has to give him respect. You don't come off and act like one of your teammate's game was underrated just to to bolster your own game, that's pathetic, period, especially after all the awards DAO garnered. You risk coming off as a complete moron if your game isn't atleast as popular and highly rated (oops, guess that isn't going to happen).

"I do not give a damn about "general consensus" messages, if the quantity of followers guaranteed success, "
I will stop you there, this line just showed me that you are not to be taken seriously.

"Why should I care about awards again? Or the comparison to the sacred monster called DAO?"

What you care about doesn't matter, but it should matter to Bioware since awards means more sales not only for this particular game but the reputation of the company and all the games that comes out after it.

I'm sorry but due to your responses, I can clearly see that common sense isn't your strong point, so I'll stop wasting my time with you.

You question my common sense yet don't know how to apply the term "underrated"?

Saying something is underrated means that it did not get the recognition/praise it deserved. <_<

And lets not venture into the Personal Insults territory, shall we?

You ignored everything I tried to get across or twisted it around. Fine. I expected no less.

Modifié par Persephone, 16 avril 2011 - 07:29 .

[Persephone]

TJSolo wrote...

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAO did not have more Fedex quests than DA2.

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

You have got to be kidding me. The entire premise of DA2's combat was make it faster, more visceral in order to increase the gratification some people would get out it.

Oh yes, it did. Including "Finding mystical sites" that don't matter, collecting scrolls that don't matter etc. The entire Side/Secondary Questing of DAO was built upon padding quests like that while Companion quests were way too short. Cut the Mage Collective bore and gimme more Companion related quests.

I'm not kidding, esp. since I couldn't care less about the combat.

[Persephone]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

If Dragon Age 3 comes out and it's back to the slow, plodding circling up to the enemy, I will be so disapponted. If there is a Third game, and I hate having to preface with that, I hope they can somehow manage to find some knid of feedback where we see the quick paced action implented with a larger canvas story. There's a happy medium.

But I don't want Dragon Age Origins 3. Without growth and evolution, you get stagnant mediocrity that only appeals to a small minority that speaks the loudest.

Exploding bodies from backstabbing is NOT evolution

Sorry but waves of enemies dropping from the ceiling is NOT evolution.

Pick up and Delivery quests is NOT evolution.

DA:2 had some good moments but it did not help that the developers pandered to one fanbase and tried to appeal to a group of gamers who dont want depth in their games.

Hopefully they will come up with a reasonable compromise that appeals to ALL fans and not just the group who want instant gratification and everything handed to them.

There is a Mod if you dislike the Gibbing.

Couldn't care less about waves or where enemies spawn. Both DAO and DAII were...um...equally shoddy there.

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

*Prepares to be flayed for heresy*

Except what you call Feddex quests are not "forced" on you to perform in Origins. In DA2, you have to do these in order to get to the end of the first two acts. And they nearly all are Feddex quests.

This makes me wonder if we played the same game. For none of the Main or Secondary Quests in mine were Feddex/Collecting quests.

Some Side Quests were, but they were optional.

[NedPepper]

Sabriana wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

You know, I've been critical. I feel I have the right to be, because I paid 56 euros for that privilege. I was also calm and constructive. At least I firmly believe I am. I have never outright told anyone not to buy DA 2. But I could not, in good conscience tell people to "go get it, it's marvelous", because as far as I'm concerned, it's simply a 'meh' game that is vastly overpriced.

I told people to rent/borrow/research. If they still loved the concept of an action/h&s medieval game with a few RPG elements they bought it. If not, they saved money. DA 2 torpedoed itself. I resent people accusing me of having friends that are simply dim-witted sheep that didn't buy a game they might have liked, simply on my say-so.

I don't believe I've accused anyone by name, so why so quick to defend yourself? 

I've been telling people who were unsure to borrow my copy and see if they liked it. So, no, I have no problem with that.

Oh dear. That wasn't directed at you at all. I'm very happy that you enjoy the game so much. This was directed at the poster who claimed that the critics pulled DA 2 down on purpose, claiming that we use 'word-of-mouth' to purposely ruin the game simply because we are upset about it.

Edited for even more clarity. I really should start putting the original quotes in my responses

That would be me.

Apparently you weren't checking out metacritic the day the game was released and saw thousands of posts that give it a ONE based on ten minutes of playing.  If there's not an agenda there, I don't know what is.  I don't think it's some kind of conspiracy...I think it's a portion of the fanbase that was mad the moment Laidlaw started talking about the changes in DA2 and had their minds made up before the game was ever released.

[Persephone]

nedpepper wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

You know, I've been critical. I feel I have the right to be, because I paid 56 euros for that privilege. I was also calm and constructive. At least I firmly believe I am. I have never outright told anyone not to buy DA 2. But I could not, in good conscience tell people to "go get it, it's marvelous", because as far as I'm concerned, it's simply a 'meh' game that is vastly overpriced.

I told people to rent/borrow/research. If they still loved the concept of an action/h&s medieval game with a few RPG elements they bought it. If not, they saved money. DA 2 torpedoed itself. I resent people accusing me of having friends that are simply dim-witted sheep that didn't buy a game they might have liked, simply on my say-so.

I don't believe I've accused anyone by name, so why so quick to defend yourself? 

I've been telling people who were unsure to borrow my copy and see if they liked it. So, no, I have no problem with that.

Oh dear. That wasn't directed at you at all. I'm very happy that you enjoy the game so much. This was directed at the poster who claimed that the critics pulled DA 2 down on purpose, claiming that we use 'word-of-mouth' to purposely ruin the game simply because we are upset about it.

Edited for even more clarity. I really should start putting the original quotes in my responses

That would be me.

Apparently you weren't checking out metacritic the day the game was released and saw thousands of posts that give it a ONE based on ten minutes of playing.  If there's not an agenda there, I don't know what is.  I don't think it's some kind of conspiracy...I think it's a portion of the fanbase that was mad the moment Laidlaw started talking about the changes in DA2 and had their minds made up before the game was ever released.

Add to that that MANY proudly (!) admitted to giving it a zero without ever having played the game at all!

[TJSolo]

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAO did not have more Fedex quests than DA2.

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

You have got to be kidding me. The entire premise of DA2's combat was make it faster, more visceral in order to increase the gratification some people would get out it.

Oh yes, it did. Including "Finding mystical sites" that don't matter, collecting scrolls that don't matter etc. The entire Side/Secondary Questing of DAO was built upon padding quests like that while Companion quests were way too short. Cut the Mage Collective bore and gimme more Companion related quests.

I'm not kidding, esp. since I couldn't care less about the combat.

If you want to stretch the Fedex quests to include those type of missions then the most of the companion quests for Anders, Isabella, Merril, and Hawke's sibling can be included.
I am not really here to debate what matters or bores but it is clear you aren't being very honest in your assessment about how many fetch quests are in DA2.

Modifié par TJSolo, 16 avril 2011 - 07:42 .

[Radwar]

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Are you serious?

How many awards did DAO get, including game of the year? Seriously if you want to come off as a idiot, the right way is to say that  the predecessor of that particular game is a second rated game (+ add the fact that this game was released by the company you work for). DAO was made by Laidlaw's teammate on the Bioware staff, and he has to give him respect. You don't come off and act like one of your teammate's game was underrated just to to bolster your own game, that's pathetic, period, especially after all the awards DAO garnered. You risk coming off as a complete moron if your game isn't atleast as popular and highly rated (oops, guess that isn't going to happen).

"I do not give a damn about "general consensus" messages, if the quantity of followers guaranteed success, "
I will stop you there, this line just showed me that you are not to be taken seriously.

"Why should I care about awards again? Or the comparison to the sacred monster called DAO?"

What you care about doesn't matter, but it should matter to Bioware since awards means more sales not only for this particular game but the reputation of the company and all the games that comes out after it.

I'm sorry but due to your responses, I can clearly see that common sense isn't your strong point, so I'll stop wasting my time with you.

You question my common sense yet don't know how to apply the term "underrated"?

Saying something is underrated means that it did not get the recognition/praise it deserved. <_<

And lets not venture into the Personal Insults territory, shall we?

You ignored everything I tried to get across or twisted it around. Fine. I expected no less.

I did not twist anything. What's right for you & what's right for Bioware as a company are two very different things.  They are two very different matters. It was pretty clear in my post. You're the one who's twisting what I'm saying.

DA2 is not underated especially when you compare it to the other Bioware games, it get's what it deserves. Heck even Jade Empire had more to offer than DA2 in diversity. Just take a look at the reused dungeons, fed ex quests, enemies spawning from the sky, 90% of armor being completely useless in stores because your comrades cannot equipe them, 90% of the game taking place in a bland & lifeless city, etc. DA2 is not even close to being of Bioware's standard of excellence. Da2 was rushed and was geared at the simple minded. Heck even Laidlaw said so, not so much in these words, but him saying DAO was too confusing and wanting to cater to the CoD gamer's says alot. I frankly don't see what was too confusing about DAO.

Modifié par Radwar, 16 avril 2011 - 07:46 .

[Persephone]

TJSolo wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAO did not have more Fedex quests than DA2.

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

You have got to be kidding me. The entire premise of DA2's combat was make it faster, more visceral in order to increase the gratification some people would get out it.

Oh yes, it did. Including "Finding mystical sites" that don't matter, collecting scrolls that don't matter etc. The entire Side/Secondary Questing of DAO was built upon padding quests like that while Companion quests were way too short. Cut the Mage Collective bore and gimme more Companion related quests.

I'm not kidding, esp. since I couldn't care less about the combat.

If you want to stretch the Fedex quests to including those type of missions then the most of the companion questsfor Anders, Isabella, Merril, and Hawke's sibling can be included.
I am not really here to debate what matters or bores but it is clear you aren't being very honest in your assessment about how many fetch quests are in DA2.

Only what you "collected" there was part of the bigger picture (Esp. Anders, Isabela and Merrill) and not just pointless collecting for a rather meaningless organization. That's just how I see it though, mind you.

[Tommy6860]

Persephone wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

If Dragon Age 3 comes out and it's back to the slow, plodding circling up to the enemy, I will be so disapponted. If there is a Third game, and I hate having to preface with that, I hope they can somehow manage to find some knid of feedback where we see the quick paced action implented with a larger canvas story. There's a happy medium.

But I don't want Dragon Age Origins 3. Without growth and evolution, you get stagnant mediocrity that only appeals to a small minority that speaks the loudest.

Exploding bodies from backstabbing is NOT evolution

Sorry but waves of enemies dropping from the ceiling is NOT evolution.

Pick up and Delivery quests is NOT evolution.

DA:2 had some good moments but it did not help that the developers pandered to one fanbase and tried to appeal to a group of gamers who dont want depth in their games.

Hopefully they will come up with a reasonable compromise that appeals to ALL fans and not just the group who want instant gratification and everything handed to them.

There is a Mod if you dislike the Gibbing.

Couldn't care less about waves or where enemies spawn. Both DAO and DAII were...um...equally shoddy there.

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

*Prepares to be flayed for heresy*

Except what you call Feddex quests are not "forced" on you to perform in Origins. In DA2, you have to do these in order to get to the end of the first two acts. And they nearly all are Feddex quests.

This makes me wonder if we played the same game. For none of the Main or Secondary Quests in mine were Feddex/Collecting quests.

Some Side Quests were, but they were optional.

I played DA2 twice, that's as much as I could tolerate. You have to do these quest to earn enough gold to get to the ends of the first act, and somewhat that in the second. Even when you achieved the right amount of gold, Bartrand would give some statement that I needed to finish up other business (just paraphrasing here) to continue onto the deep roads. Add in also, that the PC's actions and completed quests, have absolutely no effect on the outcome of the game, even when presented with what seems like the PC could have an effect, it was thrown back at me with the same result. In fact, only Isabela's and Ander's actions have anything to do with the main plots and their outcomes, and I have no control over that. That's not an RPG, that the invention of another's adventure story.

[TJSolo]

Persephone wrote...

Only what you "collected" there was part of the bigger picture (Esp. Anders, Isabela and Merrill) and not just pointless collecting for a rather meaningless organization. That's just how I see it though, mind you.

After the initial recruitment for Anders and Merril their collection quests don't further the main plot. Without the Hawke delivery service Anders will still *spoiler* and Merril's quests don't change anything related to the main quest. Isabella is a skippable teammate and will do her part in the story without Hawke to pickup the goods. That makes the collecting meaningless as the results will be the same.

Modifié par TJSolo, 16 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[Persephone]

Radwar wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Are you serious?

How many awards did DAO get, including game of the year? Seriously if you want to come off as a idiot, the right way is to say that  the predecessor of that particular game is a second rated game (+ add the fact that this game was released by the company you work for). DAO was made by Laidlaw's teammate on the Bioware staff, and he has to give him respect. You don't come off and act like one of your teammate's game was underrated just to to bolster your own game, that's pathetic, period, especially after all the awards DAO garnered. You risk coming off as a complete moron if your game isn't atleast as popular and highly rated (oops, guess that isn't going to happen).

"I do not give a damn about "general consensus" messages, if the quantity of followers guaranteed success, "
I will stop you there, this line just showed me that you are not to be taken seriously.

"Why should I care about awards again? Or the comparison to the sacred monster called DAO?"

What you care about doesn't matter, but it should matter to Bioware since awards means more sales not only for this particular game but the reputation of the company and all the games that comes out after it.

I'm sorry but due to your responses, I can clearly see that common sense isn't your strong point, so I'll stop wasting my time with you.

You question my common sense yet don't know how to apply the term "underrated"?

Saying something is underrated means that it did not get the recognition/praise it deserved. <_<

And lets not venture into the Personal Insults territory, shall we?

You ignored everything I tried to get across or twisted it around. Fine. I expected no less.

I did not twist anything. What's right for you & what's right for Bioware as a company are two very different things.  They are two very different matters. It was pretty clear in my post. You're the one who's twisting what I'm saying.

DA2 is not underated especially when you compare it to the other Bioware games, it get's what it deserves. Heck even Jade Eempire had more to offer than DA2 in diversity. Just take a look at the reused dungeons, fed ex quests, enemies spawning from the sky, 90% of armor being completely useless in stores because your comrades cannot equipe them, etc. DA2 is not even close to being of Bioware's standard of excellence. Da2 was rushed and was geared at the simple minded. Heck even Laidlaw said so, not so much in these words, but him saying DAO was too confusing and wanting to cater to the CoD gamer's says alot. I frankly don't see what was too confusing about DAO.

Eh?

I never called DAII underrated.

You said Mike Laidlaw called DAO underrated. Which is utterly untrue.

Gets what it "deserves"? Really? Hyperbole sure is awesome.

We already discussed the "fed ex" quests being more prominent in DAO.

Use a Mod if you want to play dress up the dolly with your companions. DA Nexus has several.

Simple minded? Thanks for proving my point yet again. Yes, only simple minded tools could possibly appreciate DAII.:innocent:

I think DAO was simple as rain, built upon a pretty stale formula that's been used to death. It did it well. But is it a complex game? Hell no!

[Radwar]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

If Dragon Age 3 comes out and it's back to the slow, plodding circling up to the enemy, I will be so disapponted. If there is a Third game, and I hate having to preface with that, I hope they can somehow manage to find some knid of feedback where we see the quick paced action implented with a larger canvas story. There's a happy medium.

But I don't want Dragon Age Origins 3. Without growth and evolution, you get stagnant mediocrity that only appeals to a small minority that speaks the loudest.

Exploding bodies from backstabbing is NOT evolution

Sorry but waves of enemies dropping from the ceiling is NOT evolution.

Pick up and Delivery quests is NOT evolution.

DA:2 had some good moments but it did not help that the developers pandered to one fanbase and tried to appeal to a group of gamers who dont want depth in their games.

Hopefully they will come up with a reasonable compromise that appeals to ALL fans and not just the group who want instant gratification and everything handed to them.

There is a Mod if you dislike the Gibbing.

Couldn't care less about waves or where enemies spawn. Both DAO and DAII were...um...equally shoddy there.

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

*Prepares to be flayed for heresy*

Except what you call Feddex quests are not "forced" on you to perform in Origins. In DA2, you have to do these in order to get to the end of the first two acts. And they nearly all are Feddex quests.

This makes me wonder if we played the same game. For none of the Main or Secondary Quests in mine were Feddex/Collecting quests.

Some Side Quests were, but they were optional.

I played DA2 twice, that's as much as I could tolerate. You have to do these quest to earn enough gold to get to the ends of the first act, and somewhat that in the second. Even when you achieved the right amount of gold, Bartrand would give some statement that I needed to finish up other business (just paraphrasing here) to continue onto the deep roads. Add in also, that the PC's actions and completed quests, have absolutely no effect on the outcome of the game, even when presented with what seems like the PC could have an effect, it was thrown back at me with the same result. In fact, only Isabela's and Ander's actions have anything to do with the main plots and their outcomes, and I have no control over that. That's not an RPG, that the invention of another's adventure story.

I played through the Baldur's Gate series about 6 times, Jade Empire 3 times, Kotor 4 times, Neverwinter Nights 3 times, ME1 & 2 about 6 times, DAO 4 times and I barely made it through 1 playthrough of DA2 (bored to death, & no sense of what I did actually mattered in the game world), that's how this game dissapointed me.

Modifié par Radwar, 16 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[Sabriana]

@ nedpepper

Yes I did, and I also saw the 9 and 10 votes and read their comments. It cuts both ways, but the critics were overwhelming, simply because the game was not well received overall. You might consider going there again and read the comments accompanying the negative votes. Sure, there are some that are kicking and screaming in the most childish way, but many more are thoughtful and constructive criticisms.

Why do you think that the Escapist has lost just about all credibility? Why is that when someone asks "what's a shill?" they get pointed to that person's 'professional' review? The overraters are just as wrong as the willful underraters. The game does not deserve a 0 or a 1. From my view, and imo, it deserves a solid 5. Which is, in my logic, average, with 0 being utter crap, 1 - 4 being below, 6 - 9 being above, and 10 being perfect.

I am glad that DA 2 has its staunch supporters. I resent it when the reasonable supporters get yelled down, accused of being biodrones/brownnosers/whathaveyou, because that's simply not fair. I also resent it when the reasonable critics get yelled down, trolled, accused of conspiracy, and called names. That's also not fair.

You are assuming that the fanbase got upset simply because it was Mr. Laidlaw that was the LD. Please read the forum post-release. Mr. Laidlaw was ever-present, and I don't recall any bile directed toward him. The garbage hit the fan when the game was in people's hands, not before. Believe me, I wanted the game to be wonderful. I wanted it to be a sequel to DA:O. Most of all, I wanted it to be a true RPG, a genre that bioware knows how to create.

[Persephone]

TJSolo wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Only what you "collected" there was part of the bigger picture (Esp. Anders, Isabela and Merrill) and not just pointless collecting for a rather meaningless organization. That's just how I see it though, mind you.

After the initial recruitment for Anders and Merril their collection quests don't further the main plot. Without the Hawke delivery service Anders will still *spoiler* and Merril's quests don't change anything related to the main quest. Isabella is a skippable teammate.

We'll really have to take this to the Spoiler Forums now, as I cannot detail it any further without spoiling the hell out of it.

[Radwar]

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Are you serious?

How many awards did DAO get, including game of the year? Seriously if you want to come off as a idiot, the right way is to say that  the predecessor of that particular game is a second rated game (+ add the fact that this game was released by the company you work for). DAO was made by Laidlaw's teammate on the Bioware staff, and he has to give him respect. You don't come off and act like one of your teammate's game was underrated just to to bolster your own game, that's pathetic, period, especially after all the awards DAO garnered. You risk coming off as a complete moron if your game isn't atleast as popular and highly rated (oops, guess that isn't going to happen).

"I do not give a damn about "general consensus" messages, if the quantity of followers guaranteed success, "
I will stop you there, this line just showed me that you are not to be taken seriously.

"Why should I care about awards again? Or the comparison to the sacred monster called DAO?"

What you care about doesn't matter, but it should matter to Bioware since awards means more sales not only for this particular game but the reputation of the company and all the games that comes out after it.

I'm sorry but due to your responses, I can clearly see that common sense isn't your strong point, so I'll stop wasting my time with you.

You question my common sense yet don't know how to apply the term "underrated"?

Saying something is underrated means that it did not get the recognition/praise it deserved. <_<

And lets not venture into the Personal Insults territory, shall we?

You ignored everything I tried to get across or twisted it around. Fine. I expected no less.

I did not twist anything. What's right for you & what's right for Bioware as a company are two very different things.  They are two very different matters. It was pretty clear in my post. You're the one who's twisting what I'm saying.

DA2 is not underated especially when you compare it to the other Bioware games, it get's what it deserves. Heck even Jade Eempire had more to offer than DA2 in diversity. Just take a look at the reused dungeons, fed ex quests, enemies spawning from the sky, 90% of armor being completely useless in stores because your comrades cannot equipe them, etc. DA2 is not even close to being of Bioware's standard of excellence. Da2 was rushed and was geared at the simple minded. Heck even Laidlaw said so, not so much in these words, but him saying DAO was too confusing and wanting to cater to the CoD gamer's says alot. I frankly don't see what was too confusing about DAO.

Eh?

I never called DAII underrated.

You said Mike Laidlaw called DAO underrated. Which is utterly untrue.

Gets what it "deserves"? Really? Hyperbole sure is awesome.

We already discussed the "fed ex" quests being more prominent in DAO.

Use a Mod if you want to play dress up the dolly with your companions. DA Nexus has several.

Simple minded? Thanks for proving my point yet again. Yes, only simple minded tools could possibly appreciate DAII.:innocent:

I think DAO was simple as rain, built upon a pretty stale formula that's been used to death. It did it well. But is it a complex game? Hell no!

Where did I say Laidlaw thought DAO was underated? I've stated that he obviously had no respect for the game & their designers due to his comments in interviews.
Yes DA2 get's what it deserves when it comes to ratings, the backlash from the fans and the lack of awards (prediction). It was rushed, unfinished and isn't even comparable in quality to other Bioware games (haven't played Shattered Steel & Sonic).
"I think DAO was simple as rain, built upon a pretty stale formula that's been used to death. It did it well. But is it a complex game? Hell no!"
Well, according to Laidlaw's comments it was.
And yet DA2 was made even simpler, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, etc. All in the same environements 80% of the time. Big yawn. Yeah sure, this formula hasn't been done before and is so MUCH better, please.

Modifié par Radwar, 16 avril 2011 - 08:13 .

[Persephone]

Radwar wrote...
"I think DAO was simple as rain, built upon a pretty stale formula that's been used to death. It did it well. But is it a complex game? Hell no!"
And yet DA2 was made even simpler, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, etc. All in the same environements 80% of the time. Big yawn. Yeah sure, this formula hasn't been done before and is so MUCH better, please.

Strange thing: I'm on my sixth runthrough and haven't experienced anything of the above. (Except the reused enviroments) As far as I am concerned we aren't even talking about the same game, given this use of platitudes.

We are talking in circles here.

And honestly, I've had enough of it.

The Spoiler Forums truly seem to be the only place where the actual CONTENT is discussed. 

Edit: I quoted your mistaken use of the word "underrated". Scroll up. I won't quote it again.

Modifié par Persephone, 16 avril 2011 - 08:13 .

[Radwar]

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...
"I think DAO was simple as rain, built upon a pretty stale formula that's been used to death. It did it well. But is it a complex game? Hell no!"
And yet DA2 was made even simpler, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, etc. All in the same environements 80% of the time. Big yawn. Yeah sure, this formula hasn't been done before and is so MUCH better, please.

Strange thing: I'm on my sixth runthrough and haven't experienced anything of the above. (Except the reused enviroments) As far as I am concerned we aren't even talking about the same game, given this use of platitudes.

We are talking in circles here.

And honestly, I've had enough of it.

The Spoiler Forums truly seem to be the only place where the actual CONTENT is discussed. 

Edit: I quoted your mistaken use of the word "underrated". Scroll up. I won't quote it again.

If you haven't experienced the fight, fight, fight, fed ex quests, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quests which are impossible to miss, then you truly are delusional. Like I said, you aren't to be taken seriously. I'm sorry, it isn't meant to offend you, it's simply a statement. I'm also done wasting my time with you.

Modifié par Radwar, 16 avril 2011 - 08:21 .

[flexxdk]

Radwar wrote...
Heck even Laidlaw said so, not so much in these words, but him saying DAO was too confusing and wanting to cater to the CoD gamer's says alot. I frankly don't see what was too confusing about DAO.

Did Laidlaw truly say that?

Then I say he's wrong.

In fact, DAO was the first RPG I ever played in my entire life. And I didn't find it confusing. The ingame tutorial was pretty clear, and otherwise I always had Google and the Instruction Manual.

And what does "feddex quest" mean? I have seen this phrase being thrown around here for quite some time, and I'm curious now.

Modifié par Whacka, 16 avril 2011 - 08:25 .

[Persephone]

Radwar wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...
"I think DAO was simple as rain, built upon a pretty stale formula that's been used to death. It did it well. But is it a complex game? Hell no!"
And yet DA2 was made even simpler, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, etc. All in the same environements 80% of the time. Big yawn. Yeah sure, this formula hasn't been done before and is so MUCH better, please.

Strange thing: I'm on my sixth runthrough and haven't experienced anything of the above. (Except the reused enviroments) As far as I am concerned we aren't even talking about the same game, given this use of platitudes.

We are talking in circles here.

And honestly, I've had enough of it.

The Spoiler Forums truly seem to be the only place where the actual CONTENT is discussed. 

Edit: I quoted your mistaken use of the word "underrated". Scroll up. I won't quote it again.

If you haven't experienced the fight, fight, fight, fed ex quests, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quests which are impossible to miss, then you truly are delusional. Like I said, you aren't to be taken seriously. I'm sorry, it isn't meant to offend you, it's simply a statement.

And there's the difference: I'd NEVER attack you on such a personal level for experiencing a game differently than I did.

Get it into your head: One man's trash is another man's jewel. Just because you did not enjoy something doesn't mean everyone who enjoyed it is "delusional" or "not to be taken seriously". It just makes you narrow minded, immature and rude.

I'll bring up Maria Callas again: She is both fiercely adored and hated in opera circles. But those "fans" who call supporters of other sopranos rather than Callas "delusional", "tone deaf", "ignorant" and so on...guess what's done to them? They are laughed at/despised for giving a bad name to the fanbase of a great artist.

Also, simply a statement.