667 réponses à ce sujet

[Tommy6860]

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...
"I think DAO was simple as rain, built upon a pretty stale formula that's been used to death. It did it well. But is it a complex game? Hell no!"
And yet DA2 was made even simpler, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, etc. All in the same environements 80% of the time. Big yawn. Yeah sure, this formula hasn't been done before and is so MUCH better, please.

Strange thing: I'm on my sixth runthrough and haven't experienced anything of the above. (Except the reused enviroments) As far as I am concerned we aren't even talking about the same game, given this use of platitudes.

We are talking in circles here.

And honestly, I've had enough of it.

The Spoiler Forums truly seem to be the only place where the actual CONTENT is discussed. 

Edit: I quoted your mistaken use of the word "underrated". Scroll up. I won't quote it again.

I honestly don't know where to begin with these comments. Seriously, if you think the game doesn't play as I, and as the others have stated, then it's apparent you're being disingenuous and uncritically dismissive; it simply doesn't play along anything remotely as you say. You remind of another poster here, "volourn", and maybe you two have some sort of DA1 to DA2 identity crisis happening. Maybe it's shock from reading the mass disappointment of RPGers, while being DA2 apologists who are bent on depicting the game being something it completely isn't.

After what you said the game really represented in style and gameplay, and for all to see on these forums, the onus is on you to show that it actually plays the way you say it does... And unless you're living in some alternate universe, how you say DA2 plays, simply isn't true.

[Radwar]

Whacka wrote...

Radwar wrote...
Heck even Laidlaw said so, not so much in these words, but him saying DAO was too confusing and wanting to cater to the CoD gamer's says alot. I frankly don't see what was too confusing about DAO.

Did Laidlaw truly say that?

Then I say he's wrong.

In fact, DAO was the first RPG I ever played in my entire life. And I didn't find it confusing. The ingame tutorial was pretty clear, and otherwise I always had Google and the Instruction Manual.

And what does "feddex quest" mean? I have seen this phrase being thrown around here for quite some time, and I'm curious now.

He did in an interview awhile back, sorry don't remember which. You might find it if did some research though. It's been talked alot on the boards though, alot of people didn't like it, obviously.

Fed ex quests are like the Fed ex company, in other words get & return quests. Alot of which you had no idea it was a quest, you just found something brought it back to someone in town who repeated the same meaningless message as most of the other Fed ex quests. This should be in the description of "BORING" in the dictionary. DAO had alot less of those and you had alot more in terms of interactions with the NPC's.

[Radwar]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...
"I think DAO was simple as rain, built upon a pretty stale formula that's been used to death. It did it well. But is it a complex game? Hell no!"
And yet DA2 was made even simpler, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, etc. All in the same environements 80% of the time. Big yawn. Yeah sure, this formula hasn't been done before and is so MUCH better, please.

Strange thing: I'm on my sixth runthrough and haven't experienced anything of the above. (Except the reused enviroments) As far as I am concerned we aren't even talking about the same game, given this use of platitudes.

We are talking in circles here.

And honestly, I've had enough of it.

The Spoiler Forums truly seem to be the only place where the actual CONTENT is discussed. 

Edit: I quoted your mistaken use of the word "underrated". Scroll up. I won't quote it again.

I honestly don't know where to begin with these comments. Seriously, if you think the game doesn't play as I, and as the others have stated, then it's apparent you're being disingenuous and uncritically dismissive; it simply doesn't play along anything remotely as you say. You remind of another poster here, "volourn", and maybe you two have some sort of DA1 to DA2 identity crisis happening. Maybe it's shock from reading the mass disappointment of RPGers, while being DA2 apologists who are bent on depicting the game being something it completely isn't.

After what you said the game really represented in style and gameplay, and for all to see on these forums, the onus is on you to show that it actually plays the way you say it does... And unless you're living in some alternate universe, how you say DA2 plays, simply isn't true.

Yeah, she's/he's pretty hard to understand.

[Tommy6860]

Radwar wrote...

Whacka wrote...

Radwar wrote...
Heck even Laidlaw said so, not so much in these words, but him saying DAO was too confusing and wanting to cater to the CoD gamer's says alot. I frankly don't see what was too confusing about DAO.

Did Laidlaw truly say that?

Then I say he's wrong.

In fact, DAO was the first RPG I ever played in my entire life. And I didn't find it confusing. The ingame tutorial was pretty clear, and otherwise I always had Google and the Instruction Manual.

And what does "feddex quest" mean? I have seen this phrase being thrown around here for quite some time, and I'm curious now.

He did in an interview awhile back, sorry don't remember which. You might find it if did some research though. It's been talked alot on the boards though, alot of people didn't like it, obviously.

Fed ex quests are like the Fed ex company, in other words get & return quests. Alot of which you had no idea it was a quest, you just found something brought it back to someone in town who repeated the same meaningless message as most of the other Fed ex quests. This should be in the description of "BORING" in the dictionary. DAO had alot less of those and you had alot more in terms of interactions with the NPC's.

Not only that, the feddex quests in Origins, though unecessary was just a means as to earn money along the way, since many of those 'feddex" quests happened along the way of the main story arc. You just didn't have to do them. In DA2 you have to do most of them to make the story arc advance, if you can call DA2's story, a story.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 16 avril 2011 - 08:44 .

[Persephone]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...
"I think DAO was simple as rain, built upon a pretty stale formula that's been used to death. It did it well. But is it a complex game? Hell no!"
And yet DA2 was made even simpler, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, etc. All in the same environements 80% of the time. Big yawn. Yeah sure, this formula hasn't been done before and is so MUCH better, please.

Strange thing: I'm on my sixth runthrough and haven't experienced anything of the above. (Except the reused enviroments) As far as I am concerned we aren't even talking about the same game, given this use of platitudes.

We are talking in circles here.

And honestly, I've had enough of it.

The Spoiler Forums truly seem to be the only place where the actual CONTENT is discussed. 

Edit: I quoted your mistaken use of the word "underrated". Scroll up. I won't quote it again.

I honestly don't know where to begin with these comments. Seriously, if you think the game doesn't play as I, and as the others have stated, then it's apparent you're being disingenuous and uncritically dismissive; it simply doesn't play along anything remotely as you say. You remind of another poster here, "volourn", and maybe you two have some sort of DA1 to DA2 identity crisis happening. Maybe it's shock from reading the mass disappointment of RPGers, while being DA2 apologists who are bent on depicting the game being something it completely isn't.

After what you said the game really represented in style and gameplay, and for all to see on these forums, the onus is on you to show that it actually plays the way you say it does... And unless you're living in some alternate universe, how you say DA2 plays, simply isn't true.

And here I thought it could not get more condescending.

And yet it's SO easy: It works for movies, books, games, music....... Personal taste, experience and expectations. My roommate loves RPGs yet hates DAO for reasons I could never agree with. Am I calling her delusional, disingenous or other some such condescending label? No. Because she has every right not to enjoy a game I deeply love for reasons that I disagree with. To turn the whole thing around, she loves Final Fantasy 10, worships it really. I tried playing it, and couldn't drag myself through it. I told her why. She disagreed, yet respected my opinion. It's what adults do, you know?

So the burden of "proof" is on those who love the game? How wonderfully simple.

Except that I neither want nor have to prove anything. I do not wish to convert you to "my side". I merely expect my opinion to be treated with respect. Not with agreement or anything like that. But a simple "Ok, you liked it. Glad you could enjoy it. And hey, we both love DAO! Great!" would be a whole lot more classy than these belittling, condescending remarks.

If that simple principle is impossible for you to understand, then this is going nowhere.

[Persephone]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Whacka wrote...

Radwar wrote...
Heck even Laidlaw said so, not so much in these words, but him saying DAO was too confusing and wanting to cater to the CoD gamer's says alot. I frankly don't see what was too confusing about DAO.

Did Laidlaw truly say that?

Then I say he's wrong.

In fact, DAO was the first RPG I ever played in my entire life. And I didn't find it confusing. The ingame tutorial was pretty clear, and otherwise I always had Google and the Instruction Manual.

And what does "feddex quest" mean? I have seen this phrase being thrown around here for quite some time, and I'm curious now.

He did in an interview awhile back, sorry don't remember which. You might find it if did some research though. It's been talked alot on the boards though, alot of people didn't like it, obviously.

Fed ex quests are like the Fed ex company, in other words get & return quests. Alot of which you had no idea it was a quest, you just found something brought it back to someone in town who repeated the same meaningless message as most of the other Fed ex quests. This should be in the description of "BORING" in the dictionary. DAO had alot less of those and you had alot more in terms of interactions with the NPC's.

Not only that, the feddex quests in Origins, though unecessary was just a means as to earn money along the way, since many of those 'feddex" quests happened along the way of the main story arc. You just didn't have to do them. In DA2 you have to do most of them to make the story arc advance, if you can call DA2's story, a story.

I "had" to do none of the "Did you lose this?" quests to advance the story. 

[Radwar]

Persephone wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...
"I think DAO was simple as rain, built upon a pretty stale formula that's been used to death. It did it well. But is it a complex game? Hell no!"
And yet DA2 was made even simpler, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, etc. All in the same environements 80% of the time. Big yawn. Yeah sure, this formula hasn't been done before and is so MUCH better, please.

Strange thing: I'm on my sixth runthrough and haven't experienced anything of the above. (Except the reused enviroments) As far as I am concerned we aren't even talking about the same game, given this use of platitudes.

We are talking in circles here.

And honestly, I've had enough of it.

The Spoiler Forums truly seem to be the only place where the actual CONTENT is discussed. 

Edit: I quoted your mistaken use of the word "underrated". Scroll up. I won't quote it again.

I honestly don't know where to begin with these comments. Seriously, if you think the game doesn't play as I, and as the others have stated, then it's apparent you're being disingenuous and uncritically dismissive; it simply doesn't play along anything remotely as you say. You remind of another poster here, "volourn", and maybe you two have some sort of DA1 to DA2 identity crisis happening. Maybe it's shock from reading the mass disappointment of RPGers, while being DA2 apologists who are bent on depicting the game being something it completely isn't.

After what you said the game really represented in style and gameplay, and for all to see on these forums, the onus is on you to show that it actually plays the way you say it does... And unless you're living in some alternate universe, how you say DA2 plays, simply isn't true.

And here I thought it could not get more condescending.

And yet it's SO easy: It works for movies, books, games, music....... Personal taste, experience and expectations. My roommate loves RPGs yet hates DAO for reasons I could never agree with. Am I calling her delusional, disingenous or other some such condescending label? No. Because she has every right not to enjoy a game I deeply love for reasons that I disagree with. To turn the whole thing around, she loves Final Fantasy 10, worships it really. I tried playing it, and couldn't drag myself through it. I told her why. She disagreed, yet respected my opinion. It's what adults do, you know?

So the burden of "proof" is on those who love the game? How wonderfully simple.

Except that I neither want nor have to prove anything. I do not wish to convert you to "my side". I merely expect my opinion to be treated with respect. Not with agreement or anything like that. But a simple "Ok, you liked it. Glad you could enjoy it. And hey, we both love DAO! Great!" would be a whole lot more classy than these belittling, condescending remarks.

If that simple principle is impossible for you to understand, then this is going nowhere.

Well I'd say the reason people like me are losing their patience with you is because you act as if DA2's huge problem's didn't exist. I talked about the fight, fight, fight, fed ex quests throughout the game and you act as if it wasn't the case when the game is actually plagued with these. You almost fight at every frickin' corner and there are ton's of fed ex quests in the game. You then say DAO was too simple and unoriginal when DA2 is even simpler and even less original.

[Sabriana]

Persephone is simply approaching DA 2 from a different angle. I might try it that way, I may be able to finish the second play-through that I can't seem to drag myself to attempt atm.

Anyone who says that she is hating on DA:O is wrong and simply checking the DA:O forums will confirm that. Even if she is an "Alistair" person p)

Personally, I don't think DA:O and DA 2 should be compared because imo they are two different species. One is a RPG, the other is a hybrid of several genres. I can be critical of DA 2 without even mentioning the merits of DA:O, even though it rode in on the success of DA:O.

[Persephone]

Radwar wrote...

Well I'd say the reason people like me are losing their patience with you is because you act as if DA2's huge problem's didn't exist. I talked about the fight, fight, fight, fed ex quests throughout the game and you act as if it wasn't the case when the game is actually plagued with these. You almost fight at every frickin' corner and there are ton's of fed ex quests in the game. You then say DAO was too simple and unoriginal when DA2 is even simpler and even less original.

I don't care if you lose your patience with me. I've lost mine with you after reading your first response. Which was ranting about the fact that I did not share your opinion. It's not you not enjoying DAII I have a problem with. But your dismissive, arrogant and condescending attitude towards those who do.

I have finished the game five times and I am in Act II on my sixth playthrough. I had about 10 Feddex quests coming my way, didn't finish them all.

The story of DAII is way more complex and original than the story of DAO. Just how I see it. And I'm not alone it that.

Your oversimplifying it doesn't change that.

I have my own issues with DAII (As well as DAO). The quests, companions or the story aren't among them.

My issues include overused levels, a rushed Act III, I'd love more companion conversations.... Just to mention a few.

Modifié par Persephone, 16 avril 2011 - 09:08 .

[Paraxial]

These threads always dissolve into bickering.

I eagerly await Week 6.

[Persephone]

Sabriana wrote...

Persephone is simply approaching DA 2 from a different angle. I might try it that way, I may be able to finish the second play-through that I can't seem to drag myself to attempt atm.

Anyone who says that she is hating on DA:O is wrong and simply checking the DA:O forums will confirm that. Even if she is an "Alistair" person p)

Personally, I don't think DA:O and DA 2 should be compared because imo they are two different species. One is a RPG, the other is a hybrid of several genres. I can be critical of DA 2 without even mentioning the merits of DA:O, even though it rode in on the success of DA:O.

Even worse, Sabriana, I'm an Alistair AND Loghain person!



Thank you, by the way. I have no problem with people disliking DAII and I think constructive criticism is essential so we may get a great DAIII. I simply refuse to be called "delusional" because I happen to love DAII. Flaws and all.

[Radwar]

Sabriana wrote...

Persephone is simply approaching DA 2 from a different angle. I might try it that way, I may be able to finish the second play-through that I can't seem to drag myself to attempt atm.

Anyone who says that she is hating on DA:O is wrong and simply checking the DA:O forums will confirm that. Even if she is an "Alistair" person p)

Personally, I don't think DA:O and DA 2 should be compared because imo they are two different species. One is a RPG, the other is a hybrid of several genres. I can be critical of DA 2 without even mentioning the merits of DA:O, even though it rode in on the success of DA:O.

DA2 is the sequel of DAO, heck even Bioware mentioned it on their DA2 webpage, so of course it's going to be compared. A sequel is supposed to build on the original's strong points (especially if the original had a huge amount of praise & success), not do a 180 degrees and change most of the things, especially change what made the original great. Why did the PC version lose the much praised tactical camera & unlocking of the camera, why do every fight have waves and why do enemies appear in mid-air? While I admit the DAO fights were a bit slow, why did they go way overboard in the fight speeds? Why were the number of towns, different dungeons & locations dramatically reduced? Why do the choices you make matter alot less than in DAO? Why were the interactions with the NPC's dramatically cut? Why are 90% of armor that are found or in market stores rendered completely useless because you can't equipe armor on your comrades anymore? And the list goes on & on. There are alot of "why's" and no answer from Bioware (well apart from Laidlaw's comment's on DAO being too complex for the casual player), lol. You can't have a complete game & then have a half-made sequel that changes most of what made the original great without people comparing the two, and being disgruntled about it, especially when they forked 60 bucks thinking it would be as great as DAO.

Modifié par Radwar, 16 avril 2011 - 09:42 .

[Radwar]

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Well I'd say the reason people like me are losing their patience with you is because you act as if DA2's huge problem's didn't exist. I talked about the fight, fight, fight, fed ex quests throughout the game and you act as if it wasn't the case when the game is actually plagued with these. You almost fight at every frickin' corner and there are ton's of fed ex quests in the game. You then say DAO was too simple and unoriginal when DA2 is even simpler and even less original.

I don't care if you lose your patience with me. I've lost mine with you after reading your first response. Which was ranting about the fact that I did not share your opinion. It's not you not enjoying DAII I have a problem with. But your dismissive, arrogant and condescending attitude towards those who do.

I have finished the game five times and I am in Act II on my sixth playthrough. I had about 10 Feddex quests coming my way, didn't finish them all.

The story of DAII is way more complex and original than the story of DAO. Just how I see it. And I'm not alone it that.

Your oversimplifying it doesn't change that.

I have my own issues with DAII (As well as DAO). The quests, companions or the story aren't among them.

My issues include overused levels, a rushed Act III, I'd love more companion conversations.... Just to mention a few.

Like I said earlier, I don't take you seriously, sorry. Oops, here's me being dismissive again.

[Persephone]

Radwar wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Well I'd say the reason people like me are losing their patience with you is because you act as if DA2's huge problem's didn't exist. I talked about the fight, fight, fight, fed ex quests throughout the game and you act as if it wasn't the case when the game is actually plagued with these. You almost fight at every frickin' corner and there are ton's of fed ex quests in the game. You then say DAO was too simple and unoriginal when DA2 is even simpler and even less original.

I don't care if you lose your patience with me. I've lost mine with you after reading your first response. Which was ranting about the fact that I did not share your opinion. It's not you not enjoying DAII I have a problem with. But your dismissive, arrogant and condescending attitude towards those who do.

I have finished the game five times and I am in Act II on my sixth playthrough. I had about 10 Feddex quests coming my way, didn't finish them all.

The story of DAII is way more complex and original than the story of DAO. Just how I see it. And I'm not alone it that.

Your oversimplifying it doesn't change that.

I have my own issues with DAII (As well as DAO). The quests, companions or the story aren't among them.

My issues include overused levels, a rushed Act III, I'd love more companion conversations.... Just to mention a few.

Like I said earlier, I don't take you seriously, sorry. Oops, here's me being dismissive again.

Well, as of now, I cannot take you and your childish antics seriously either. Given that I'd rather not stoop to your level of personal insults and diatribes, I'll just push BSN's imaginary Block Button. And that's that. 

[Radwar]

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Well I'd say the reason people like me are losing their patience with you is because you act as if DA2's huge problem's didn't exist. I talked about the fight, fight, fight, fed ex quests throughout the game and you act as if it wasn't the case when the game is actually plagued with these. You almost fight at every frickin' corner and there are ton's of fed ex quests in the game. You then say DAO was too simple and unoriginal when DA2 is even simpler and even less original.

I don't care if you lose your patience with me. I've lost mine with you after reading your first response. Which was ranting about the fact that I did not share your opinion. It's not you not enjoying DAII I have a problem with. But your dismissive, arrogant and condescending attitude towards those who do.

I have finished the game five times and I am in Act II on my sixth playthrough. I had about 10 Feddex quests coming my way, didn't finish them all.

The story of DAII is way more complex and original than the story of DAO. Just how I see it. And I'm not alone it that.

Your oversimplifying it doesn't change that.

I have my own issues with DAII (As well as DAO). The quests, companions or the story aren't among them.

My issues include overused levels, a rushed Act III, I'd love more companion conversations.... Just to mention a few.

Like I said earlier, I don't take you seriously, sorry. Oops, here's me being dismissive again.

Well, as of now, I cannot take you and your childish antics seriously either. Given that I'd rather not stoop to your level of personal insults and diatribes, I'll just push BSN's imaginary Block Button. And that's that. 

Oh please don't, you're gonna make me cry.

[Radwar]

double post

Modifié par Radwar, 16 avril 2011 - 09:33 .

[Besetment]

Blastaz wrote...

It looks like the game still doesn't appeal to the CoD crowd.

Does that mean the next game will be even furth dumbed down or can we have a game that apeals to the Baldur's Gate crowd again instead?

Heres the problem with CoD and trying to tap the CoD market: There is only one CoD. Its like Walmart, Intel and Apple. If you get into the grocery business right now, you can never beat Walmart at being Walmart. You can certainly try but Walmart is already huge, already established, already a tradition (like CoD) so this is a battle that the upstart is highly unlikely to win. Even if you provide a better product/service, Walmart is so pervasive, so omnipresent that they can still do worse and sell more.

CoD took 8 years to get to where it is now and it started off based on Quake 3 tech. It didn't become the behemoth it is until Modern Warfare. If you want to topple that giant in sales terms you need to commit to building something thats going to last and to support it, like Walmart in the beginning, and like CoD which has over time supplanted both Quake 3 and Counter-Strike as the everyman's choice of team deathmatch.

After a while people will come when they see you are on to a good thing and you intend to stick around. When they see that, they tend to stick around too. I played Counter-Strike from beta 3 until version 1.6 and it just kept growing and growing into this unholy beast. I eventually felt alienated by it but t I kept playing for years without any real enjoyment before I finally stopped. Gooseman (the developer) by necessity had to withdraw much contact with players who had become a great screaming horde. But I don't think Goose ever traded his base for the guys on the fence. He never traded one set of fans for another, bigger set of fans. He never considered traded his PC players for console players. He just tried to make the PC game he wanted to play and people came. Because it was also a game we wanted to play too.

Since then loads of companies have tried to cash in on Counter-Strike, with Modern Warfare amongst them. But even the mighty CoD had to take a different direction because theres only one damn Counter-Strike.

This is the great problem with imitation: you just can't beat the original no matter how much better you do. You have to make it so that you are the original to which all others aspire to be. Trying to copy the CoD formula or to tap the CoD market for me is not only insane but it doesn't even make sense. CoD players are happy where they are and the moment they aren't, then they'll play something else.

Modifié par Besetment, 16 avril 2011 - 09:58 .

[Tommy6860]

Persephone wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Whacka wrote...

Radwar wrote...
Heck even Laidlaw said so, not so much in these words, but him saying DAO was too confusing and wanting to cater to the CoD gamer's says alot. I frankly don't see what was too confusing about DAO.

Did Laidlaw truly say that?

Then I say he's wrong.

In fact, DAO was the first RPG I ever played in my entire life. And I didn't find it confusing. The ingame tutorial was pretty clear, and otherwise I always had Google and the Instruction Manual.

And what does "feddex quest" mean? I have seen this phrase being thrown around here for quite some time, and I'm curious now.

He did in an interview awhile back, sorry don't remember which. You might find it if did some research though. It's been talked alot on the boards though, alot of people didn't like it, obviously.

Fed ex quests are like the Fed ex company, in other words get & return quests. Alot of which you had no idea it was a quest, you just found something brought it back to someone in town who repeated the same meaningless message as most of the other Fed ex quests. This should be in the description of "BORING" in the dictionary. DAO had alot less of those and you had alot more in terms of interactions with the NPC's.

Not only that, the feddex quests in Origins, though unecessary was just a means as to earn money along the way, since many of those 'feddex" quests happened along the way of the main story arc. You just didn't have to do them. In DA2 you have to do most of them to make the story arc advance, if you can call DA2's story, a story.

I "had" to do none of the "Did you lose this?" quests to advance the story. 

You're picking a particular quest, as described by the in game comment you posted as one example. I didn't say you have to do all quests, only that you have to do them to earn money to get into the deep roads, and if you didn't meet Bartrands criteria, he will tell you to finish them. I am not going to repeat this again as DA2 plays just as I described, and you have to do these quests and side quests ad nauseam . It's interesting how it is universal in how we all describe how the game plays, yet a few apologists state differently. So, it's evident that more than 95% of the people in these forums are not making up what differs from your expereince, now matter how untrue yours is. It appears that eating apples is someow related to eating oranges in your books.

You also do not need to do the side quests in Origins as they are completely optional, you can play along the main story arc and finish it, unlike DA2. Interestingly, some of the side quests in Origins are more abundant in that they actually have to do with your companions personal histories, whereas it is just tacked on with little meaning in DA2 since they don't lend much to your DA2 companion's charcter builds.

[Fallstar]

sphinxess wrote...

PC is way off - must not be tracking steam

Yeah it doesn't track steam or EA direct download, but I doubt the figures are way off, perhaps 100k over the course of the 5 weeks, considering that the PC audience was most irritated and angry about the changes.

[Tommy6860]

Persephone wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Radwar wrote...
"I think DAO was simple as rain, built upon a pretty stale formula that's been used to death. It did it well. But is it a complex game? Hell no!"
And yet DA2 was made even simpler, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, fight, fight, fight, fed ex quest, etc. All in the same environements 80% of the time. Big yawn. Yeah sure, this formula hasn't been done before and is so MUCH better, please.

Strange thing: I'm on my sixth runthrough and haven't experienced anything of the above. (Except the reused enviroments) As far as I am concerned we aren't even talking about the same game, given this use of platitudes.

We are talking in circles here.

And honestly, I've had enough of it.

The Spoiler Forums truly seem to be the only place where the actual CONTENT is discussed. 

Edit: I quoted your mistaken use of the word "underrated". Scroll up. I won't quote it again.

I honestly don't know where to begin with these comments. Seriously, if you think the game doesn't play as I, and as the others have stated, then it's apparent you're being disingenuous and uncritically dismissive; it simply doesn't play along anything remotely as you say. You remind of another poster here, "volourn", and maybe you two have some sort of DA1 to DA2 identity crisis happening. Maybe it's shock from reading the mass disappointment of RPGers, while being DA2 apologists who are bent on depicting the game being something it completely isn't.

After what you said the game really represented in style and gameplay, and for all to see on these forums, the onus is on you to show that it actually plays the way you say it does... And unless you're living in some alternate universe, how you say DA2 plays, simply isn't true.

And here I thought it could not get more condescending.

And yet it's SO easy: It works for movies, books, games, music....... Personal taste, experience and expectations. My roommate loves RPGs yet hates DAO for reasons I could never agree with. Am I calling her delusional, disingenous or other some such condescending label? No. Because she has every right not to enjoy a game I deeply love for reasons that I disagree with. To turn the whole thing around, she loves Final Fantasy 10, worships it really. I tried playing it, and couldn't drag myself through it. I told her why. She disagreed, yet respected my opinion. It's what adults do, you know?

So the burden of "proof" is on those who love the game? How wonderfully simple.

Except that I neither want nor have to prove anything. I do not wish to convert you to "my side". I merely expect my opinion to be treated with respect. Not with agreement or anything like that. But a simple "Ok, you liked it. Glad you could enjoy it. And hey, we both love DAO! Great!" would be a whole lot more classy than these belittling, condescending remarks.

If that simple principle is impossible for you to understand, then this is going nowhere.

Not condescending at all, I am pointing out that what your experience is either imaginary or self-personified. Make of DA2 as you wish, it doesn't play as you say it does and you are not saying it plays the way you say it does with casual intent.. You are very clear and definite with what you say. It would be no different than you saying gravity is not a real force that holds things together, it is that blatant.

[Tommy6860]

Sabriana wrote...

Persephone is simply approaching DA 2 from a different angle. I might try it that way, I may be able to finish the second play-through that I can't seem to drag myself to attempt atm.

Anyone who says that she is hating on DA:O is wrong and simply checking the DA:O forums will confirm that. Even if she is an "Alistair" person p)

Personally, I don't think DA:O and DA 2 should be compared because imo they are two different species. One is a RPG, the other is a hybrid of several genres. I can be critical of DA 2 without even mentioning the merits of DA:O, even though it rode in on the success of DA:O.

No one I have read said she hating anything, that is simply adding an element I haven't read in this particular discussion, so I wouldn't add it. But your mention of not comparing Origins to DA2 is exactly what she is doing all the while misrepresenting the differences, that's not being critical in any sense of the meaning.

But what you say is simply a casual way to say that the game plays the way she "thinks" it does, when by her own words, she makes very clear that it doesn't play that way. There is no angle. She may have a preference to the style of the gameplay over Origins, and that is fine. But it is totally a different animal to say it plays the way she has been defining in just these last few posts. I don't budge on blatant misrepresntation, sorry.

[Melca36]

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAO did not have more Fedex quests than DA2.

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

You have got to be kidding me. The entire premise of DA2's combat was make it faster, more visceral in order to increase the gratification some people would get out it.

Oh yes, it did. Including "Finding mystical sites" that don't matter, collecting scrolls that don't matter etc. The entire Side/Secondary Questing of DAO was built upon padding quests like that while Companion quests were way too short. Cut the Mage Collective bore and gimme more Companion related quests.

I'm not kidding, esp. since I couldn't care less about the combat.

If you want to stretch the Fedex quests to including those type of missions then the most of the companion questsfor Anders, Isabella, Merril, and Hawke's sibling can be included.
I am not really here to debate what matters or bores but it is clear you aren't being very honest in your assessment about how many fetch quests are in DA2.

Only what you "collected" there was part of the bigger picture (Esp. Anders, Isabela and Merrill) and not just pointless collecting for a rather meaningless organization. That's just how I see it though, mind you.

I wasn't referring to the characters when it came to these fed ex quests. I was talking about finding a random item while on a quest and then returning to some random person.

I really would like to understand how those can be considered immersive and enhance the game.

How is finding a 6th toe or someone's pummel immersive?

And it does NOT make sense that Hawke knows immediately where to deliver these items. Can you understand where some of us are coming from in that regard?

[Radwar]

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAO did not have more Fedex quests than DA2.

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

You have got to be kidding me. The entire premise of DA2's combat was make it faster, more visceral in order to increase the gratification some people would get out it.

Oh yes, it did. Including "Finding mystical sites" that don't matter, collecting scrolls that don't matter etc. The entire Side/Secondary Questing of DAO was built upon padding quests like that while Companion quests were way too short. Cut the Mage Collective bore and gimme more Companion related quests.

I'm not kidding, esp. since I couldn't care less about the combat.

If you want to stretch the Fedex quests to including those type of missions then the most of the companion questsfor Anders, Isabella, Merril, and Hawke's sibling can be included.
I am not really here to debate what matters or bores but it is clear you aren't being very honest in your assessment about how many fetch quests are in DA2.

Only what you "collected" there was part of the bigger picture (Esp. Anders, Isabela and Merrill) and not just pointless collecting for a rather meaningless organization. That's just how I see it though, mind you.

I wasn't referring to the characters when it came to these fed ex quests. I was talking about finding a random item while on a quest and then returning to some random person.

I really would like to understand how those can be considered immersive and enhance the game.

How is finding a 6th toe or someone's pummel immersive?

And it does NOT make sense that Hawke knows immediately where to deliver these items. Can you understand where some of us are coming from in that regard?

10 bucks she/he says they don't know what you're talking about since they didn't have this issue in the game.

[Melca36]

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

If Dragon Age 3 comes out and it's back to the slow, plodding circling up to the enemy, I will be so disapponted. If there is a Third game, and I hate having to preface with that, I hope they can somehow manage to find some knid of feedback where we see the quick paced action implented with a larger canvas story. There's a happy medium.

But I don't want Dragon Age Origins 3. Without growth and evolution, you get stagnant mediocrity that only appeals to a small minority that speaks the loudest.

Exploding bodies from backstabbing is NOT evolution

Sorry but waves of enemies dropping from the ceiling is NOT evolution.

Pick up and Delivery quests is NOT evolution.

DA:2 had some good moments but it did not help that the developers pandered to one fanbase and tried to appeal to a group of gamers who dont want depth in their games.

Hopefully they will come up with a reasonable compromise that appeals to ALL fans and not just the group who want instant gratification and everything handed to them.

There is a Mod if you dislike the Gibbing.

Couldn't care less about waves or where enemies spawn. Both DAO and DAII were...um...equally shoddy there.

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

*Prepares to be flayed for heresy*

Sorry you hated Origins. Its too bad you can't appreciate the good elements it did have.

I don't hate DA:2  but its NOT a perfect game like you think it is.  The 2nd ACT is the BEST of all acts...writing wise.

The Third Act was rushed and should have had more development.  We barely got to know Orsino or Meredith.

I just want a reasonable compromise. I am college educated and I resent being considered stupid.  

Hopefully they will learn from the mistakes made and appeal to all fans and not just one group. Thats all I ask.

And I want a FADE that lasts more than freaking 15 minutes.

Oh no no no, I did not hate DAO. I enjoyed it immensely. (You're speaking to a fellow Alistair fangirl here!)

And I do not think DAII is perfect. Neither is DAO.

And I agree with everything else in your post! :happy:

Well its good we can reach a modicum of understanding then.  I will still respectfully disagree on those fedex quests.

They were better defined and organized in Origins. 

Finding a pummel, or the remains of a person and knowing where they are to go is not game evolution. In my opinion its just laziness on the developers part and how they consider gamers....stupid.

Modifié par Melca36, 16 avril 2011 - 10:08 .

[Persephone]

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAO did not have more Fedex quests than DA2.

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

You have got to be kidding me. The entire premise of DA2's combat was make it faster, more visceral in order to increase the gratification some people would get out it.

Oh yes, it did. Including "Finding mystical sites" that don't matter, collecting scrolls that don't matter etc. The entire Side/Secondary Questing of DAO was built upon padding quests like that while Companion quests were way too short. Cut the Mage Collective bore and gimme more Companion related quests.

I'm not kidding, esp. since I couldn't care less about the combat.

If you want to stretch the Fedex quests to including those type of missions then the most of the companion questsfor Anders, Isabella, Merril, and Hawke's sibling can be included.
I am not really here to debate what matters or bores but it is clear you aren't being very honest in your assessment about how many fetch quests are in DA2.

Only what you "collected" there was part of the bigger picture (Esp. Anders, Isabela and Merrill) and not just pointless collecting for a rather meaningless organization. That's just how I see it though, mind you.

I wasn't referring to the characters when it came to these fed ex quests. I was talking about finding a random item while on a quest and then returning to some random person.

I really would like to understand how those can be considered immersive and enhance the game.

How is finding a 6th toe or someone's pummel immersive?

And it does NOT make sense that Hawke knows immediately where to deliver these items. Can you understand where some of us are coming from in that regard?

Oh, with this I absolutely agree. Which is why I tend to avoid these quests as much as I can. By now I know pretty much all of them and never pick those items up. (Same reason why I don't do the Mages Collective etc. in DAO) IMO those should either have been put into a Lost/Found Board questline with mini cutscenes or they should have been cut.

They do not bother me as much though, I just ignore them.

Modifié par Persephone, 16 avril 2011 - 10:18 .