667 réponses à ce sujet

[Tommy6860]

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAO did not have more Fedex quests than DA2.

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

You have got to be kidding me. The entire premise of DA2's combat was make it faster, more visceral in order to increase the gratification some people would get out it.

Oh yes, it did. Including "Finding mystical sites" that don't matter, collecting scrolls that don't matter etc. The entire Side/Secondary Questing of DAO was built upon padding quests like that while Companion quests were way too short. Cut the Mage Collective bore and gimme more Companion related quests.

I'm not kidding, esp. since I couldn't care less about the combat.

If you want to stretch the Fedex quests to including those type of missions then the most of the companion questsfor Anders, Isabella, Merril, and Hawke's sibling can be included.
I am not really here to debate what matters or bores but it is clear you aren't being very honest in your assessment about how many fetch quests are in DA2.

Only what you "collected" there was part of the bigger picture (Esp. Anders, Isabela and Merrill) and not just pointless collecting for a rather meaningless organization. That's just how I see it though, mind you.

I wasn't referring to the characters when it came to these fed ex quests. I was talking about finding a random item while on a quest and then returning to some random person.

I really would like to understand how those can be considered immersive and enhance the game.

How is finding a 6th toe or someone's pummel immersive?

And it does NOT make sense that Hawke knows immediately where to deliver these items. Can you understand where some of us are coming from in that regard?

Exactly, like finding the remains of some dead sister from the Chantry, which then prompts one of many fedex quests. You go to the Chantry find a brother and Hawke says to him, "I think you misplaced this", then the brother says, "Bless my fool spirit, I thought I'd never see that again, thank you!"

HUH? No emotion over the dead sister, not one question as to what happened to her. And they were simply remains brought back, nothign was specified to what was found.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 16 avril 2011 - 10:14 .

[Esbatty]

Maybe it was an Urn and not... a sack of bones.

[Melca36]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAO did not have more Fedex quests than DA2.

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

You have got to be kidding me. The entire premise of DA2's combat was make it faster, more visceral in order to increase the gratification some people would get out it.

Oh yes, it did. Including "Finding mystical sites" that don't matter, collecting scrolls that don't matter etc. The entire Side/Secondary Questing of DAO was built upon padding quests like that while Companion quests were way too short. Cut the Mage Collective bore and gimme more Companion related quests.

I'm not kidding, esp. since I couldn't care less about the combat.

If you want to stretch the Fedex quests to including those type of missions then the most of the companion questsfor Anders, Isabella, Merril, and Hawke's sibling can be included.
I am not really here to debate what matters or bores but it is clear you aren't being very honest in your assessment about how many fetch quests are in DA2.

Only what you "collected" there was part of the bigger picture (Esp. Anders, Isabela and Merrill) and not just pointless collecting for a rather meaningless organization. That's just how I see it though, mind you.

I wasn't referring to the characters when it came to these fed ex quests. I was talking about finding a random item while on a quest and then returning to some random person.

I really would like to understand how those can be considered immersive and enhance the game.

How is finding a 6th toe or someone's pummel immersive?

And it does NOT make sense that Hawke knows immediately where to deliver these items. Can you understand where some of us are coming from in that regard?

Exactly, like finding the remains of some dead sister from the Chantry, which then prompts one of many fedex quests. You go to the Chantry find a brother and Hawke says to him, "I think you misplaced this", then the brother says, "Bless my fool spirit, I thought I'd never see that again, thank you!"

HUH? No emotion over the dead sister, not one question as to what happened to her. And they were simply remains brought back, nothign was specified to what was found.

Yes! I know what you mean. I hated those quests! I did them for the XP and money but they insulted my intelligence and I resent game developers assuming I am stupid to blindly accept those sort of quests.

At least with the Origins quests they were grouped in a way that gave them identity....

There was a reason for the Mage Collective quests and for the Irregulars quests.  I liked the finale for the Irregulars quest where you were supposed to make a choice.

These side quests in DA:2 were insulting.

[Persephone]

Melca36 wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAO did not have more Fedex quests than DA2.

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

You have got to be kidding me. The entire premise of DA2's combat was make it faster, more visceral in order to increase the gratification some people would get out it.

Oh yes, it did. Including "Finding mystical sites" that don't matter, collecting scrolls that don't matter etc. The entire Side/Secondary Questing of DAO was built upon padding quests like that while Companion quests were way too short. Cut the Mage Collective bore and gimme more Companion related quests.

I'm not kidding, esp. since I couldn't care less about the combat.

If you want to stretch the Fedex quests to including those type of missions then the most of the companion questsfor Anders, Isabella, Merril, and Hawke's sibling can be included.
I am not really here to debate what matters or bores but it is clear you aren't being very honest in your assessment about how many fetch quests are in DA2.

Only what you "collected" there was part of the bigger picture (Esp. Anders, Isabela and Merrill) and not just pointless collecting for a rather meaningless organization. That's just how I see it though, mind you.

I wasn't referring to the characters when it came to these fed ex quests. I was talking about finding a random item while on a quest and then returning to some random person.

I really would like to understand how those can be considered immersive and enhance the game.

How is finding a 6th toe or someone's pummel immersive?

And it does NOT make sense that Hawke knows immediately where to deliver these items. Can you understand where some of us are coming from in that regard?

Exactly, like finding the remains of some dead sister from the Chantry, which then prompts one of many fedex quests. You go to the Chantry find a brother and Hawke says to him, "I think you misplaced this", then the brother says, "Bless my fool spirit, I thought I'd never see that again, thank you!"

HUH? No emotion over the dead sister, not one question as to what happened to her. And they were simply remains brought back, nothign was specified to what was found.

Yes! I know what you mean. I hated those quests! I did them for the XP and money but they insulted my intelligence and I resent game developers assuming I am stupid to blindly accept those sort of quests.

At least with the Origins quests they were grouped in a way that gave them identity....

There was a reason for the Mage Collective quests and for the Irregulars quests.  I liked the finale for the Irregulars quest where you were supposed to make a choice.

These side quests in DA:2 were insulting.

Do what I do, both with them and the DAO fetchers....ignore them. It's easy. (I completed Act I yesterday without doing a single one of them. )

[Esbatty]

*is crushed by a collapsing quote ziggurat*

...

Tell them, tell them to make *hack* Athenril *cough* a DLC love interest. *passes out*

[Paraxial]

Esbatty wrote...
Tell them, tell them to make *hack* Athenril *cough* a DLC love interest. *passes out*

I'm game.

[Elhanan]

Esbatty wrote...

*is crushed by a collapsing quote ziggurat*...

Tell them, tell them to make *hack* Athenril *cough* a DLC love interest. *passes out*

*grabs the once in a lifetime opp*

RE: Smoking ziggurats are dangerous to your health....

[Melca36]

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

DAO had way more Feddex quests than DAII. ("Get 15 toxins for X" "Collect ten mushrooms for Y")

DAO did not have more Fedex quests than DA2.

DAII offered neither instant gratification to me nor did it hand everything to me. It actually made me think way more than DAO ever did. I consider DAO child's play compared to the grit, gripping story telling and gutwrenching drama of DAII. It had depth, so bloody much of it.

You have got to be kidding me. The entire premise of DA2's combat was make it faster, more visceral in order to increase the gratification some people would get out it.

Oh yes, it did. Including "Finding mystical sites" that don't matter, collecting scrolls that don't matter etc. The entire Side/Secondary Questing of DAO was built upon padding quests like that while Companion quests were way too short. Cut the Mage Collective bore and gimme more Companion related quests.

I'm not kidding, esp. since I couldn't care less about the combat.

If you want to stretch the Fedex quests to including those type of missions then the most of the companion questsfor Anders, Isabella, Merril, and Hawke's sibling can be included.
I am not really here to debate what matters or bores but it is clear you aren't being very honest in your assessment about how many fetch quests are in DA2.

Only what you "collected" there was part of the bigger picture (Esp. Anders, Isabela and Merrill) and not just pointless collecting for a rather meaningless organization. That's just how I see it though, mind you.

I wasn't referring to the characters when it came to these fed ex quests. I was talking about finding a random item while on a quest and then returning to some random person.

I really would like to understand how those can be considered immersive and enhance the game.

How is finding a 6th toe or someone's pummel immersive?

And it does NOT make sense that Hawke knows immediately where to deliver these items. Can you understand where some of us are coming from in that regard?

Exactly, like finding the remains of some dead sister from the Chantry, which then prompts one of many fedex quests. You go to the Chantry find a brother and Hawke says to him, "I think you misplaced this", then the brother says, "Bless my fool spirit, I thought I'd never see that again, thank you!"

HUH? No emotion over the dead sister, not one question as to what happened to her. And they were simply remains brought back, nothign was specified to what was found.

Yes! I know what you mean. I hated those quests! I did them for the XP and money but they insulted my intelligence and I resent game developers assuming I am stupid to blindly accept those sort of quests.

At least with the Origins quests they were grouped in a way that gave them identity....

There was a reason for the Mage Collective quests and for the Irregulars quests.  I liked the finale for the Irregulars quest where you were supposed to make a choice.

These side quests in DA:2 were insulting.

Do what I do, both with them and the DAO fetchers....ignore them. It's easy. (I completed Act I yesterday without doing a single one of them. )

See I can't ignore them. I am a completist.   I've been still playing sporadically as means of experiementing and exploring the game mechanics.

If you have not trie dthe runes of fortunes, I highly recommend trying them. They do work but there seems to be a bias towards mages getting more gold.

[Dragoonlordz]

If you skip and ignore all the bad quests in DA2 you end up with a 10-25 hour game tops. In a game you shouldn't have to skip such a large amount as opposed to the devs making them interesting to begin with being the prefered solution.

[The Angry One]

The sad thing is you know people like Laidlaw are looking at the lower sales figures and going
"Hmmm... needs to be more like CoD."

[optimates0193]

The Angry One wrote...

The sad thing is you know people like Laidlaw are looking at the lower sales figures and going
"Hmmm... needs to be more like CoD."

I don't know about you, but I'm looking forwad to using a Desert Eagle to mow down waves of nameless enemies in DA3.

Hell, they can call it "Black Hawke Down." That'd be awesome. 

[MingWolf]

optimates0193 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The sad thing is you know people like Laidlaw are looking at the lower sales figures and going
"Hmmm... needs to be more like CoD."

I don't know about you, but I'm looking forwad to using a Desert Eagle to mow down waves of nameless enemies in DA3.

Hell, they can call it "Black Hawke Down." That'd be awesome. 

Hmm, need a bit more punch than a semi-auto with so many enemies dropping in from the ceiling.  An M60 machine gun would be more appropriate.

But Black Hawke Down, thats brilliant

[TUHD]

Don't know whether to laugh or cry/cringe over your comment optimates.... :>

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

1) You might want to edit out your pyramid quotes guys. They bite.

2) VGACats data is worth less than the ads it servers. I'm just sayin'. It's only good for pushing agendas.

[Dryden00]

MingWolf wrote...

optimates0193 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The sad thing is you know people like Laidlaw are looking at the lower sales figures and going
"Hmmm... needs to be more like CoD."

I don't know about you, but I'm looking forwad to using a Desert Eagle to mow down waves of nameless enemies in DA3.

Hell, they can call it "Black Hawke Down." That'd be awesome. 

Hmm, need a bit more punch than a semi-auto with so many enemies dropping in from the ceiling.  An M60 machine gun would be more appropriate.

But Black Hawke Down, thats brilliant

This deserves a ziggurat.  I'd thoroughly enjoy an FPS-RPG set in current day technology levels too!  Similar to how I enjoy  the fallout series so much with the exception of FNV.  But to be fair here, a game like black hawk down would probably involve more than two or three cave types and building layouts considering the architecture of the area and that'd make it a no go.  It'd still all be the same color at least.  

[ejoslin]

The Angry One wrote...

The sad thing is you know people like Laidlaw are looking at the lower sales figures and going
"Hmmm... needs to be more like CoD."

That is my fear as well.  They really do seem to dislike DAO so much that they'd rather move away from it, despite how successful it was.  I'm not sure why DAO's success is not taken into account.  Instead they seem to stick to the party line, for some weird reason, that DAO was bad.  But DAO is STILL selling well.  So maybe someone with a little less ego involved in this will prevail.  Afterall, what EA wants is to make money.  And if a indepth RPG makes them money, they'll want it made.

They have so much less competition in the RPG market.  If they don't take advantage of it, someone else will, but I will miss the amazing stories.

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 avril 2011 - 08:06 .

[Brockololly]

ejoslin wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The sad thing is you know people like Laidlaw are looking at the lower sales figures and going
"Hmmm... needs to be more like CoD."

That is my fear as well.  They really do seem to dislike DAO so much that they'd rather move away from it, despite how successful it was.

They have so much less competition in the RPG market.  If they don't take advantage of it, someone else will, but I will miss the amazing stories.

Yup- it would seem Origins proved there is a market for that sort of game, yet, as you get more action based its a more competitive area and brings with it a different audience with different expectations.

I'll be interested to see where DA goes in the future, but going by some of the recent interviews and such, I'm not very optimistic.

[TUHD]

Well, at least atm the sales figures are proving them wrong so far that it was a good idea...

[ejoslin]

TUHD wrote...

Well, at least atm the sales figures are proving them wrong so far that it was a good idea...

The million dollar question is, do they return to what made Origins so successful, or do they attempt to make it even more action-y?

I'm hoping for a game that is a bit more like Origins, but not a complete revamp.  But I'm prepared to be disappointed.  There has been so much trashing of Origins from the devs that I cannot bring myself to be hopeful that it will go back to a bit more rpg-y feeling.

Actually, I'm losing interest in the whole thing.  Perhaps if the next patch fixes more of the bugs or if they release a toolset I'll get back to being interested or at least revisit it.

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 avril 2011 - 08:43 .

[ankuu]

Hope they learn a lesson and stick to the old recipe. I am not saying Origins was perfect, but instead of completely changing it they could have perfect it.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

As has been discussed to death, VGCharts are always to be considered works of fiction. It's amusing so few of you are in the know.

vgchartz is still the only source where you can get sales statistics across a games' lifetime. whether you think they are or aren't accurate, they're taken from the same source for both games. >_>

[sami jo]

Traditional RPGs cost more to develop than any other genre. Writing, voice acting, character development and programming complex plot branches takes more time and resources than a standard shooter or even the popular shooters with a plot like ME. That means that those games need higher sales to make the same ultimate profits. Yes, DA:O sold well--far better than BW expected. It was also very expensive to produce and took years of dev time. They are trying to find a balance point between the two extremes in which they can retain the RPG audience but still have large profit margins. I don't think DA2 quite hit the mark, but given the short development cycle on it, they will probably still make a decent profit. Dev comments made it clear in the run-up to the release of Awakenings that the resources to make another game like Origins just aren't there. Blame market realities, the company's investment in TOR, the takeover by EA or whatever else, but the reality is that the resources aren't there. I can hope that they will learn that the core RPG fans who made DA:O successful would rather have the limited resources put into story and go that route with DA3, but I suspect the company's trajectory is clearly moving towards the groups that thinks DA2 is an improvement. Waves of baddies falling from the sky and fed-ex quests are cheaper than dialogue. I understand the move, I just don't like it much.

And before the DA2 fanboys decent to tell me how much better it is than Origins, there is nothing wrong with being a classic RPG fan. I'm glad the new game appeals to someone. It isn't horrible, but some of us actually *like* all those RPG elements as much as you enjoy hacking through waves of enemies.

[Yrkoon]

sami jo wrote...

Traditional RPGs cost more to develop than any other genre. Writing, voice acting, character development and programming complex plot branches takes more time and resources than a standard shooter or even the popular shooters with a plot like ME. That means that those games need higher sales to make the same ultimate profits. Yes, DA:O sold well--far better than BW expected. It was also very expensive to produce and took years of dev time. They are trying to find a balance point between the two extremes in which they can retain the RPG audience but still have large profit margins. I don't think DA2 quite hit the mark, but given the short development cycle on it, they will probably still make a decent profit. Dev comments made it clear in the run-up to the release of Awakenings that the resources to make another game like Origins just aren't there. Blame market realities, the company's investment in TOR, the takeover by EA or whatever else, but the reality is that the resources aren't there..

No, I'm not ready to  fall back on the  "lack of resources"  crutch.  Not when it's painfully clear that *everything* in DA2 was an intended design decision


Ask yourself this question:  if resources were so tight, then why did they spend so much  of the resources they DID have  on: 1) Overhauling  the combat system;  2) friggin  *replacing* the  UI?

Don't you think they could have saved a significant amount of resources by  leaving  those 2 alone?  And if they had left those two alone,  what do you think they could have done with all that freed up man-hours and resources?    Perhaps they could have had enough money and time to design some  more new areas, write up some more dialogue, add some more content to act 3, etc?  Maybe?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 16 avril 2011 - 10:14 .

[sami jo]

They didn't do all that much to the combat system, really. It feels different, but the back end is pretty much the same. The changes to the UI were similarly trivial from a programming standpoint. There was none of the complex programming required by a complex plot, programming that is still buggy in Origins. They didn't take the time to get what little they did do correct in DA2. I don't much like it, nor do I agree with the direction the company is going, but DA2 almost certainly cost a good deal less than Origins.

[cljqnsnyc]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

1) You might want to edit out your pyramid quotes guys. They bite.

2) VGACats data is worth less than the ads it servers. I'm just sayin'. It's only good for pushing agendas.

So DA2 is actually selling like hotcakes and all of this commotion isn't really happening? I guess  Amazon, Steam, and other sites showing DA2 falling or being discounted are all wrong as well? How about Bioware bundling ME2 FREE with DA2 just 4 weeks after release? What agenda does all of this signify?

It's clear you absolutely LOVE DA2 and that's fine, no problem. However, if the game was selling well, don't you think Bioware and EA would yell it from the highest mountain top? Also, it never crossed your mind that Bioware announcing sales of 1 million coincides directly with the information found on a site you say "is worth less than the ads it serves?"

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 16 avril 2011 - 10:41 .