667 réponses à ce sujet

[Tommy6860]

Yellow Words wrote...

Autolycus wrote...

@YelloWords

I don't see "small animations" like that as a problem. It costs making new ones and I'd rather they use their money on other parts of their games.

if the game was 20 notes cheaper and came from a smaller developer, I am sure most of us would't mind. As for the rather use money for something else lmao....are you being serious? Bioware are not a new developer struggling for business, they are owned by EA for christ sake.

But that doesn't mean that they get as much money as they want. If that was the case I'm guessing they would be using money to make new animations for pretty much everything. I just don't see it as a problem. So they used the same drinking animation as Mass Effect? Not a big deal for me. 

I can agree with that if only that were the extent of the lack of originality. The ME animations are prevalent throughout DA2, and that drinking scene is just one example. Games of this genre and especially this stature, should  stick to originality. Many of us who play Bioware games are going to notice these scenes, and some, as myself, got the feeling of having been there and done that. In my books, that takes away some of the immersion with these subliminal elements coming to mind.

[Tharion]

Good, DA2 blows. It's the worst game Bioware has released in ages, it's so bad that once I finally drag myself to play the rest of the game I will never again play it. rather play Origin for the 5th time than suffer through this poor fps crap.

Voice overs is practically the only reason i even wanna finish this game. The fragmented story is the major reason why it has taken me forever to play (had it pre-ordered).

[MEBengal2008]

In another forum I visit regularly many gamers are holding out to see if a Ultimate Edition will be released. They would risk spending there money on that copy; especially after all the negative user reviews.

[Shatterkiss]

MEBengal2008 wrote...

In another forum I visit regularly many gamers are holding out to see if a Ultimate Edition will be released. They would risk spending there money on that copy; especially after all the negative user reviews.

That's pretty much what I've been telling people.  Rent, or wait until the Ultimate Edition is out for about $40.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

Autolycus wrote...

@YelloWords

I don't see "small animations" like that as a problem. It costs making new ones and I'd rather they use their money on other parts of their games.

if the game was 20 notes cheaper and came from a smaller developer, I am sure most of us would't mind. As for the rather use money for something else lmao....are you being serious? Bioware are not a new developer struggling for business, they are owned by EA for christ sake.

But that doesn't mean that they get as much money as they want. If that was the case I'm guessing they would be using money to make new animations for pretty much everything. I just don't see it as a problem. So they used the same drinking animation as Mass Effect? Not a big deal for me. 

I can agree with that if only that were the extent of the lack of originality. The ME animations are prevalent throughout DA2, and that drinking scene is just one example. Games of this genre and especially this stature, should  stick to originality. Many of us who play Bioware games are going to notice these scenes, and some, as myself, got the feeling of having been there and done that. In my books, that takes away some of the immersion with these subliminal elements coming to mind.

I'm not bothered by it as long as they don't re-use animations for scenes where it really counts. And I think the cinematic team did a excellent job this time around. 

On a side note, I love that Lady Hawke moves like a lady and not like a man. Even though I'm still not happy about the way she runs. 

[Night Prowler76]

MerinTB wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...
The funny part is that VGchartz listed the game as selling just over 1 million copies in that time, but all the BioSHeep on here say that VGchratz is inaccurate, so apparently BioWare AND VGchartz are liing about DA2 sales as they both have said the same amount hahaha

Uhm.... what?

vgchartz numbers:

DA:O
360             PS3          PC         Total
355941 + 155660 + 56319 = 567920  Week1
509171 + 227964 + 78002 = 815137 Week2

DA2
360              PS3             PC       Total
392508 + 163410 + 143830 = 699748  Week1
521405 + 224620 + 181832 = 927857  Week2

Huh, that DOES look like DA2 is outselling DA:O....

until you look closer at the PC sales numbers!







Maybe notice something missing in the DA:O numbers?  American computer sales, perhaps?
Unlike 360 and PS3, the PC sales numbers for the EMEAA are LOWER for DA2 than for DA:O.    Without vgchartz's American PC sales for DA:O, we can't make a fair comparison of those numbers...

So, looking instead at just the data we have -

EMEAA

DA:O            DA2
56319        54632  Week1
78002        65188  Week2

Or, effectively

DA:O Week1=  567920;  DA2 Week2=610550
DA:O Week2=  815137;  DA2 Week2=811213

Giving DA2 the benefit of the doubt (IMO) and saying they received an average increase (comparing the 3 % increases for 360, PS3 and EMEAA) for American PC sales for DA2, 103%, just to give a comparable number - DA:O PC sales at 86600.
To be clear, this is in no way anything but a very iffy educated guess, but I think I'm erring in favor of DA2 here...
and taking the average drop in sales from week 1 to week 2 for the DA:O data we have (week 2 being @ 45.5% of week 1 sales, roughly)
one could then make a stab at the American PC numbers for DA:O, using the average drop in sales for week 2, at 39403.
Adding back in the vgchartz American PC sales to DA2, and then adding in my (again, IMO, generous to DA2 AND, again, iffy educated guess) averaged out estimate of America PC sales of DA:O, we see

DA:O  654520  Week1 ; 941140 Week2
DA2    699748  Week1 ; 927857  Week2

DA2 wins week 1 sales, DA:O has sold more by week 2.
Further week trends so far, on vgchartz, show DA2 continuing to sink in sales while DA:O had a resurging increase in sales for each platform a couple times (firsts being weeks 3 or 4, depending on platform)

---

Again, this is trusting vgchartz methods, which aren't going to get exact or accurate numbers but (I'd argue) trends and ballparks overall..
AND my crude estimatation of DA:O's PC sales as they might, statistically, show up in the vgchartz... erring on the side of DA2 outselling DA:O on PC in America week1, mind you...

putting that all together, DA2 falls behind DA:O in sales week2.  And falls further behind as the weeks go on, so far.

Just looking at the 360 and PS3 on the vgchartz, the 360 falls behind on week 3 for DA2 (just ahead still on week2, but dropping bad week3 comparitively) and the PS3 falls behind on week2 for DA2.

The claim that DA2 reached 1 million before DA:O, just using the vgchartz rough measure of overall trends / ballpark of sales, only makes sense if DA:O's American PC sales were some kind of anomalous outlier despite DA:O having been an Americas PC game in development for like 5 years and then a quick port to consoles.

My suspicion is that DA:O PC sales, week 1, were greater than DA2 PC sales.  Which makes that "reached 1 million quicker" statement even harder to swallow if I'm right.

But, overall, there clearly is reason to take the "DA2 selling better than DA:O" line with a grain of salt.

And, moreover, saying "that VGchartz listed the game as selling just over 1 million copies in that time" isn't entirely accurate if your implied meaning is that the vgchartz show that DA2 outsold DA:O.  It just doesn't do that.
And specifically, exactly to what you say, 927857 < 1000000.  DA2, on vgchartz, did NOT sell 1 million in 2 weeks.

Ummm you lost me, I was referring to Bioware stating that they had moved/sold over 1 million copies (2-3 weeks after release, and that is the approximate number VGcharts put on the sales as well, but people dismiss VGcharts as being way off in their numbers.

Had nothing to do with DAo vs DA2 in sales dude, just pointing out that VGcharts is a decent source for approximations of video game sales, hope that clears it up.

[DarkAstartes]

I don't know why everyone is fretting about DA3, as for myself, I'm hoping they just release DA2 and pretend this game never even happened.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Melca36 wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Autolycus wrote...

@David46

Agree completely. I refuse to have Steam installed on my PC, any game that requires it to be 'played' (Take Shogun 2 for example) I will either not buy, or I will buy and then hack the client so it bypasses steam when it installs.

DRM is bad in general (as it never stops what it's suposed to)....but to be forced to use it just to a play game.....I draw the line there.

Very similar to Biowares "there is no SecuROM in DA2" argument, despite it putting registry files throughout your computer, which if removed, stop you from logging in *whistles*

Steam's fine. I can put my games on any computer I want. And you don't need to be online to play a game either. Just the initial time when you download it.

I Telltale Games.

I agree.

I will never get people's paranoid delusions about Steam.  <_<

I've NEVER had a problem with Steam. I can play mods and I can **OFFLINE** when my internet is out.

People need to accept the realiztion that digital downloads are eventually going to be the ONLY way you get PC games.

Hehe. I agree. I stopped buying physical copies and I am using Steam now. It works fine. Small independent studios use Steam and Impulse to publish their stuff and some cannot be found anywhere else. It's nice to fiddle with those too. There's great stuff to be found there.

[Grissium]

I'm a numbers guy and I don't like the data your pulling. Because the numbers your quoting and the numbers bioware is quoting are very different. Also you admit that you don't have numbers for steam which are not public AFAIK. And there is one HUGE difference in DAO release and DA2 release and that is Steam. Steam and digital distrubtion is fast becoming the standard for game release, and the number of games released and bought digitally has become way higher in the last few years. So high I was reading a story that video game sellers in the UK are thinking about dropping PC games from their shelves that are sold digitally.... and I wish I could find that story to quote it. If I find it I will...

The point is, your data is probably way off at least with PC numbers because downloading games has become way more common in the last 2 years.

[Night Prowler76]

Grissium wrote...

I'm a numbers guy and I don't like the data your pulling. Because the numbers your quoting and the numbers bioware is quoting are very different. Also you admit that you don't have numbers for steam which are not public AFAIK. And there is one HUGE difference in DAO release and DA2 release and that is Steam. Steam and digital distrubtion is fast becoming the standard for game release, and the number of games released and bought digitally has become way higher in the last few years. So high I was reading a story that video game sellers in the UK are thinking about dropping PC games from their shelves that are sold digitally.... and I wish I could find that story to quote it. If I find it I will...

The point is, your data is probably way off at least with PC numbers because downloading games has become way more common in the last 2 years.

Da2's numbers are on par with DAO for the consoles , so they are probably on par for the PC as well, it doesnt matter if they are bought on Steam or in the store, Biowares quotes for over 1 million sales are on par with what VGAcharts has posted as well.

[DKJaigen]

Tharion wrote...

Good, DA2 blows. It's the worst game Bioware has released in ages, it's so bad that once I finally drag myself to play the rest of the game I will never again play it. rather play Origin for the 5th time than suffer through this poor fps crap.

Voice overs is practically the only reason i even wanna finish this game. The fragmented story is the major reason why it has taken me forever to play (had it pre-ordered).

its so nice that the so called "fans"  want to see bioware fall

Modifié par DKJaigen, 09 avril 2011 - 06:57 .

[Marionetten]

DKJaigen wrote...

its so nice that the so called "fans"  want to see bioware fall

We don't want to see BioWare fail. We want to see an abysmal title fail so they can go back to making quality stuff. Unfortunately, the resident fanboys and yesmen will back Dragon Age II to its grave and subsequently drag down the future quality of BioWare titles. Thanks for that.

[DKJaigen]

Marionetten wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

its so nice that the so called "fans"  want to see bioware fall

We don't want to see BioWare fail. We want to see an abysmal title fail so they can go back to making quality stuff. Unfortunately, the resident fanboys and yesmen will back Dragon Age II to its grave and subsequently drag down the future quality of BioWare titles. Thanks for that.

What you consider a "title fail"other might see as a "title awesome". I find that DA2 is an improvement compared to DAO. Is DA2 perfect? no! but neither does it deserve you **** mate. Saying things like abysmal fail gives me the impression you are biased.

Its a good game and if DA3 improves on the strenghts of DA2 while removing the weaknesses of DA2 it will completely outclass DAO.

[TJSolo]

DKJaigen wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

its so nice that the so called "fans"  want to see bioware fall

We don't want to see BioWare fail. We want to see an abysmal title fail so they can go back to making quality stuff. Unfortunately, the resident fanboys and yesmen will back Dragon Age II to its grave and subsequently drag down the future quality of BioWare titles. Thanks for that.

What you consider a "title fail"other might see as a "title awesome". I find that DA2 is an improvement compared to DAO. Is DA2 perfect? no! but neither does it deserve you **** mate. Saying things like abysmal fail gives me the impression you are biased.

Its a good game and if DA3 improves on the strenghts of DA2 while removing the weaknesses of DA2 it will completely outclass DAO.

You mean if DA3 continues along the path set by DA2 then it  will outclass DAO as a action adventure game(maybe with RPG elements), sure but not better as an RPG.

[ejoslin]

Judge585 wrote...

Food for thought: maybe a lot of people did not enjoy Dragon Age Origins as much as people thought, that's why they're not buying Dragon Age II. The initial week 1 numbers for DAII were impressive only because of select people who enjoyed the hardcore RPG of DA:O, and that's why we see so many disappointment threads with the changes. Pondering this because in another thread, people were dismissing the 1million DAII sales figures by claiming that the "truth" will only be witnessed by DA3 sales figures, that DAII sales figures don't prove anything. I'm posing this possibility also because I got a few of my friends to be DAII fans after they wrote off the Dragon Age series off after Origins.

The main problem with this line of thought is that the preorders and first week sales for DA2 are high -- those are the sales that are based on how popular DAO was.  It's the marked drop off in later weeks that would come from word of mouth regarding DA2.  If the reason for the lower sales was because of a dislike for DAO, the first week would have been lower, and then as word of mouth and reviews came out, they would raise.  Instead, it's the opposite.

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 avril 2011 - 07:28 .

[Persephone]

DKJaigen wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

its so nice that the so called "fans"  want to see bioware fall

We don't want to see BioWare fail. We want to see an abysmal title fail so they can go back to making quality stuff. Unfortunately, the resident fanboys and yesmen will back Dragon Age II to its grave and subsequently drag down the future quality of BioWare titles. Thanks for that.

What you consider a "title fail"other might see as a "title awesome". I find that DA2 is an improvement compared to DAO. Is DA2 perfect? no! but neither does it deserve you **** mate. Saying things like abysmal fail gives me the impression you are biased.

Its a good game and if DA3 improves on the strenghts of DA2 while removing the weaknesses of DA2 it will completely outclass DAO.

Yep. What I want for DA3 is a fusion of the strengths of both games and eliminating the weaknesses of both. Personally I couldn't care less about so called RPG elements ala super complex tactics or playing Dress Up The Dolly with companions. (As long as they change clothes more often than in DA2 and improvements make a difference) Not that these aren't valid RPG elements but my RPG elements (Going back to my P&P days) are present in DA2 as well as in DAO. Both were/are flawed and need improvements though. Do I enjoy them despite that? Hell YES.

[DKJaigen]

TJSolo wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

its so nice that the so called "fans"  want to see bioware fall

We don't want to see BioWare fail. We want to see an abysmal title fail so they can go back to making quality stuff. Unfortunately, the resident fanboys and yesmen will back Dragon Age II to its grave and subsequently drag down the future quality of BioWare titles. Thanks for that.

What you consider a "title fail"other might see as a "title awesome". I find that DA2 is an improvement compared to DAO. Is DA2 perfect? no! but neither does it deserve you **** mate. Saying things like abysmal fail gives me the impression you are biased.

Its a good game and if DA3 improves on the strenghts of DA2 while removing the weaknesses of DA2 it will completely outclass DAO.

You mean if DA3 continues along the path set by DA2 then it  will outclass DAO as a action adventure game(maybe with RPG elements), sure but not better as an RPG.

RPG is broad term indeed. and i still consider DA2 a RPG. But as i said its a broad term

[Persephone]

ejoslin wrote...

Judge585 wrote...

Food for thought: maybe a lot of people did not enjoy Dragon Age Origins as much as people thought, that's why they're not buying Dragon Age II. The initial week 1 numbers for DAII were impressive only because of select people who enjoyed the hardcore RPG of DA:O, and that's why we see so many disappointment threads with the changes. Pondering this because in another thread, people were dismissing the 1million DAII sales figures by claiming that the "truth" will only be witnessed by DA3 sales figures, that DAII sales figures don't prove anything. I'm posing this possibility also because I got a few of my friends to be DAII fans after they wrote off the Dragon Age series off after Origins.

The main problem with this line of thought is that the preorders and first week sales for DA2 are high -- those are the sales that are based on how popular DAO was.  It's the marked drop off in later weeks that would come from word of mouth regarding DA2.  If the reason for the lower sales was because of a dislike for DAO, the first week would have been lower, and then as word of mouth and reviews came out, they would raise.  Instead, it's the opposite.

And that is why I never listen to word of mouth. And hyperbole.

And DAO's popularity sure did not help Awakening (Which kept all of DAO's elements...well, most of them) whatsoever.

Modifié par Persephone, 09 avril 2011 - 07:32 .

[Zjarcal]

Persephone wrote...
And that is why I never listen to word of mouth. And hyperbole.

Yeah, word of mouth is not something I consider useful. My tastes can vary so much from everyone else's that listening to word of mouth is more than likely going to cause me to miss a game I like, or buy something I won't enjoy. 

Modifié par Zjarcal, 09 avril 2011 - 07:35 .

[Horus Blackheart]

Persephone : I find my self wondering if you find inter dimensional travelling mobs to be an improvement? Because I found most of the combat and encounter design 'improvements' to be abysmal personally.

[Marionetten]

DKJaigen wrote...

Its a good game and if DA3 improves on the strenghts of DA2 while removing the weaknesses of DA2 it will completely outclass DAO.

The problem is that Dragon Age II barely has any real strengths. In fact, the rivalry system and the family dynamic are the only things I can think of. The improved combat was awful with kiting being a broken mess. Choices were meaningless as there were no real consequences. The railroading was more heavy-handed than ever. Simply put, the game design was poor.

While I don't mind BioWare taking some things out of Dragon Age II I do not want to see them continue treading down that path. It's a dead end. Before they take any lessons from Dragon Age II they need to look back at Dragon Age: Origins. This is why I hope that Dragon Age II will continue failing. It would allow BioWare to revisit Dragon Age: Origins and figure out a new direction for the franchise.

[Persephone]

Zjarcal wrote...

Persephone wrote...
And that is why I never listen to word of mouth. And hyperbole.

Yeah, word of mouth is not something I consider useful. My tastes can vary so much from everyone else's that listening to word of mouth is more than likely going to cause me to miss a game I like, or buy something I won't enjoy. 

Never mind the excessive hate campaign going on once it was released. That's not to say that disliking the game isn't valid or that the game couldn't have used another 6 months of dev time. But the hyperbole really shocked me. I'm glad that I for one make up my own opinion by playing the game myself (If I am truly unsure I rent/borrow it from a friend first) .

[Persephone]

Horus Blackheart wrote...

Persephone : I find my self wondering if you find inter dimensional travelling mobs to be an improvement? Because I found most of the combat and encounter design 'improvements' to be abysmal personally.

I don't care much for the combat either way. Be it in Origins or DAII. I go through it to move the story along. But that's just me.

[Logikal1]

 Bad game is bad.

[Persephone]

Marionetten wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Its a good game and if DA3 improves on the strenghts of DA2 while removing the weaknesses of DA2 it will completely outclass DAO.

The problem is that Dragon Age II barely has any real strengths.

And that's an undisputed fact?

How about me telling you that I did indeed encounter consequences?

And that IMO the so called consequences in DAO (Companion Switch, Epilogue Slides) were shallow and really meh? You get similar consequences (People leaving you, supporting/not supporting you, former choices influencing later quests in DA2 as well) 

That's just it, my opinion. No more or less valid than yours.

DA2 isn't failing. And because I do believe in its strength , I support it. I want Bioware to look at both games (For they were both excellent despite their varying flaws) and apply their strength in DA3. Will everyone be satisfied then? I doubt it.