537 réponses à ce sujet

[Xarne]

Livemmo wrote...

We can all agree though that black people should be called black instead of 'african american' right?

Yes.
No other 'american' is immediately tagged as their nation of origin and then their nation of residence.

Never heard anyone say 'two english american' males just robbed me.
You would simply say two white guys

Or "I was watching this Icelandic-American comedian on Tv, he was hilarious"
He would just be a comedian (unless he was black then you would of course make note that he wasnt a comedian who was black, he was a black comedian).

German-American, Italian-American, Irish-American...never heard these terms.
Since they all have the same(relative) skin color, they are all just 'people'.
But as soon as the brotha steps in the room, oh here comes that african-american.
Meanwhile I havent met 1 black dude actually from Africa. I know some from Brooklyn, some from Newark - have yet to meet one from, say, Botswana or Mozambique - but immediately they get that special brand, letting all around know he is different from the rest. Political Correctness - what a crock of sh*t

Modifié par Xarne, 18 novembre 2009 - 10:17 .

[Malkut]

DarthKaldriss wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

Well, the Chasind are black, but there is no barbarian human origin, unfortunately (would have been way more interesting than a human farmer origin for sure, especially since they seem to be the first people hit by the blight on the surface).

Anyway, if you want your human noble to be consistant with oyur origin story, your character should be white, and probly have dark hair too (cf Fergus Cousland)

         Thats odd as the Chasind you see in Lothering are all white.

No, they aren't.

[spokenwordd]

Forwen wrote...

Did anyone complain there was only one race available in Jade Empire? I mean, since it's the internet someone somewhere probably did. But seriously?

The issue is NOT race it is the continuity of the selection.  The original poster was simply stating that he wished his choice to roll a black caharacter [which the game allows] is not followed by the matching family to go with it.

This has nothing to do with racial prejudice.  In Jade Empire the story matched the character selection and environment in DOA it does not.  The game is still great but it was worth mentioning in the forum.

Since the original post some have sought to troll the post and it has morphed into a damn shame....

[Xarne]

Livemmo wrote...

spokenwordd wrote...

Xarne wrote...

OMG, at first this started out a what I thought was a legit issue, more likely a very well disguised troll thread.
Let's wrap this up:
1- Xeiru is a troll with a capital T
2- BioWare eff'd up: Forget about the whole 'black human noble thing', let's come from the other angle and say if they werent going to make the family black then humans should not have the option for darker palettes. There it is, case is closed.

I agree with you on both points... And at the end of the day it is a great game this is a minor issue at best, NOT a racial one but an issue of continuity.  Nice wrap up.

I disagree with this wrap up and hope to see many more attempts at wrapping this up. I myself would like to insert a well placed wrap up of my own, but at the moment I'm lacking both the place which would need to be well and the creativity to follow through. With that said, I will still be donating a turkey this weekend. So that makes me feel happy.

You say weird stuff. Entertaining but weird. I imagine you with a tub of popcorn at the keybaords, hitting F5 every so often, hoping to see how high this fire will go

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

i have a problem that this game is prejudice against HUMANS.



why do the sub human scum get 2 exclusive origins and the humans only one?



if humans make up the majority of the population, then they should have at LEAST 50% OR MORE OF THE ORIGIN STORIES as exclusive to them.

[spokenwordd]

Xarne wrote...

Livemmo wrote...

We can all agree though that black people should be called black instead of 'african american' right?

Yes.
No other 'american' is immediately tagged as their nation of origin and then their nation of residence.

Never heard anyone say 'two english american' males just robbed me.
You would simply say two white guys

Or "I was watching this Icelandic-American comedian on Tv, he was hilarious"
He would just be a comedian (unless he was black then you would of course make not that he wasnt a comedian who was black, he was a black comedian).

German-American, Italian-American, Irish-American...never heard these terms.
Since they all have the same(relative) skin color, they are all just 'people'.
But as soon as the brotha steps in the room, oh here comes that african-american.
Meanwhile I havent met 1 black dude actually from Africa. I know some from Brooklyn, some from Newark - have yet to meet one from, say, Botswana or Mozambique - but immediately they get that special brand, letting all around know he is different from the rest. Political Correctness - what a crock of sh*t

This is off topic BUT as a black person who is an American I agree.  I do not like the term African America AT ALL... It is a PC [politically correct] term that the left loves to throw out there for reasons I do not want to get into here in this setting.  Basically it is BS like most PC doctrines.

However, there are some blacks who prefer it and although I do not address anyone with the "stgma" it is their right to carry this banner if they choose.

This has nothing to do with the game topic we started but, there I said it...

[Forwen]

I should have made it clearer that I wasn't responing to the OP but some of the posters later on. Still, I have an inclination to knee-jerk reactions whenever this topic comes up. Carry on.

[KalosCast]

Bluto Blutarskyx wrote...

i have a problem that this game is prejudice against HUMANS.

why do the sub human scum get 2 exclusive origins and the humans only one?

if humans make up the majority of the population, then they should have at LEAST 50% OR MORE OF THE ORIGIN STORIES as exclusive to them.

Because, dear Bluto, it's about quality and not shoe-horning in origins that don't make sense for glorious humanity... and not to mention all humans are noble when compared to knife-ears.

[KalosCast]

Forwen wrote...

I should have made it clearer that I wasn't responing to the OP but some of the posters later on. Still, I have an inclination to knee-jerk reactions whenever this topic comes up. Carry on.

Your knee-jerk reaction is to venomously argue a completely different point that doesn't have anything to do with what anybody was talking about?

[Xarne]

If anything this game is prejudiced FOR humans - even a filthy rogue can achieve nobility, if he is human - silly.

But if any race has the right to have a chip on their shoulder its the city elves - I played their origin last night - omg - talk about 2nd class citizens - you could play a PISSED OFF elf and get away with it. o.0

[Livemmo]

I lold.

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

KalosCast wrote...

Bluto Blutarskyx wrote...

i have a problem that this game is prejudice against HUMANS.

why do the sub human scum get 2 exclusive origins and the humans only one?

if humans make up the majority of the population, then they should have at LEAST 50% OR MORE OF THE ORIGIN STORIES as exclusive to them.

Because, dear Bluto, it's about quality and not shoe-horning in origins that don't make sense for glorious humanity... and not to mention all humans are noble when compared to knife-ears.

i'm sorry, but just because you have a midget "poor" or an enslaved elf vs forrest type elf origin doens't mean that those origins are "quailty".

a human wildman chashin barbarian would have furthered the story WAY more than a dalish elf- 

restricting the player from playing a dalish elf would have added to the game and given the dalish more of a mystique since until the character actualy encounters one- they remain shrouded in mystery.

i can see the dwarf noble and dwarf commoner, ok-

also you are presuming that such origins would have been just "tacked on"-

i see what you mean TO A POINT about not just throwing things in- but lets face it, most of the origins can be interchanged since an hour (at most) later- everyone ends up in the same basic camp to begin the game after origin story anyway.

a human mercenary with a story about thier company bieng wiped out fighting the actual darkspawn threat and duncan saving the human would have been a decent beginning, complete with a "thrown into the action" with a party type of opening training sequence.

a human crimimal- who begins in a prison, and must manufacture thier own prison break through guile or physical force, would have been an option. (although i just thought that one up a second ago).

any number of human origins could have been built on that were different than the sub humans, but also permitted quality, substantive options for the player in a human dominated world.

even a chantry origin option but i don't see the popularity in that since its not a "magical weilding" priest, merely a female acolyte or male in training to be a templar which we alreday have.

the origins as they are are not very inventive- fun, but nothing groundbreaking so adding a mercenary human or something similar that is human, but not noble caste status is appropriate-

also just because the main character's dog gets more respect than the elf (as it should- unless its one of wendy pini's elves) doesn't make all humans noble, nor convey the same attitude.

[Xarne]

I would have opted for more human origins too, since I dont like playing short people (elves, dwarves, gnomes, hobbits and the rest of their short lot) but maybe I'm partial

So I'll toss this out there, cause this really grinds my gears:
Does anyone think it evil of BioWare to re-add content back into the game as DLC because it didnt make it in under the original deadlines?

I gritted my teeth as I bought the DLC with the extra storage. Did I need it? no. Is extra storage space not the most attractive luxury item in an inventory-heavy rpg like this? Ayup.

If it was meant to be in the game but didnt make it (but yet you still worked on it to get it ready for release) then why is it not a code buyers get to unlock for free after initial installation.
Why nickel and dime us? Cause they are now the pawns of EA?

*Not to hijack, but this thread (if it was ever at all a serious one) is now a joke*

Modifié par Xarne, 18 novembre 2009 - 10:47 .

[KalosCast]

Bluto Blutarskyx wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

Bluto Blutarskyx wrote...

i have a problem that this game is prejudice against HUMANS.

why do the sub human scum get 2 exclusive origins and the humans only one?

if humans make up the majority of the population, then they should have at LEAST 50% OR MORE OF THE ORIGIN STORIES as exclusive to them.

Because, dear Bluto, it's about quality and not shoe-horning in origins that don't make sense for glorious humanity... and not to mention all humans are noble when compared to knife-ears.

i'm sorry, but just because you have a midget "poor" or an enslaved elf vs forrest type elf origin doens't mean that those origins are "quailty".

a human wildman chashin barbarian would have furthered the story WAY more than a dalish elf- 

restricting the player from playing a dalish elf would have added to the game and given the dalish more of a mystique since until the character actualy encounters one- they remain shrouded in mystery.

i can see the dwarf noble and dwarf commoner, ok-

also you are presuming that such origins would have been just "tacked on"-

i see what you mean TO A POINT about not just throwing things in- but lets face it, most of the origins can be interchanged since an hour (at most) later- everyone ends up in the same basic camp to begin the game after origin story anyway.

a human mercenary with a story about thier company bieng wiped out fighting the actual darkspawn threat and duncan saving the human would have been a decent beginning, complete with a "thrown into the action" with a party type of opening training sequence.

a human crimimal- who begins in a prison, and must manufacture thier own prison break through guile or physical force, would have been an option. (although i just thought that one up a second ago).

any number of human origins could have been built on that were different than the sub humans, but also permitted quality, substantive options for the player in a human dominated world.

even a chantry origin option but i don't see the popularity in that since its not a "magical weilding" priest, merely a female acolyte or male in training to be a templar which we alreday have.

the origins as they are are not very inventive- fun, but nothing groundbreaking so adding a mercenary human or something similar that is human, but not noble caste status is appropriate-

also just because the main character's dog gets more respect than the elf (as it should- unless its one of wendy pini's elves) doesn't make all humans noble, nor convey the same attitude.

http://dictionary.re...com/browse/joke

Enlighten yourself.

[Vioitty]

tl;dr.



Qunari aren't black humans, Morrigan herself points Sten as a proud creature, assuming that the qunari is a race (prehaps even a lesser-race, since elves and dwarves aren't considered /creatures/). But I digress, it's not a question of whether or not it's 'racial justice', or whatever terms people are flinging about, it's a case of immersion.



If I was playing a black, white, asian, polkadotted character, then I would like some immersion as to my portrayed reletives. It's not a point of 'we're black, and we want equality!' it goes without saying that it would be nice but not demanded.



God forbid how this degraded into a race issue.

[Livemmo]

http://dictionary.re...owse/dictionary

[Xarne]

a book containing a selection of the words of a language, usually arranged alphabetically, giving information about their meanings, pronunciations, etymologies, inflected forms, etc., expressed in either the same or another language; lexicon; glossary: a dictionary of English; a Japanese-English dictionary.

[purplesunset]

Some of the knee-jerk responses in this thread are appalling. All of this could have been avoided if Bioware had actually followed through and listened to the conversations that occured BEFORE the game was released.

I'm going to repost something that I wrote in a previous thread about this issue:

Ok, what's bothering me is that people are not taking this thread seriously, or they are completely misconstruing the OP's words.

It's even more unfortunate when you consider that there was a long thread with David Gaider and other devs, where we talked about this issue when the game was still  in development.



--------   It has NOTHING to do with racism or anything. No one is accusing  Bioware of being racist, so please don't de-rail the thread with your overly simplistic and incorrect assessments  ----------

From what I saw in the Character Creator, it *DOES* take a lot of work to create a black character. Not just the hair and facial features, but the skin tones are all off. I had to mess with my computer's gamma settings, and do a lot of tweaking before I could come up with a realistic looking black skin complexion. I'm not exactly sure what went wrong with the color palette here.



There are some other awkward things such as having siblings and parents that look nothing like you. I feel that there are ways this could have been avoided without much effort on Bioware's part (a simple reference to an adoption or something).



Again, please don't de-rail the thread. We're not idiots screaming "racism !" or conspiracy theories involving Bioware developers with white hoods (besides Chris Priestly can't wear a hood, because his devil horns wouldn't fit ).

The larger issue is that black and other non-white rpg'ers have dealt with these awkward things in the past, but seeing as how there were threads about it while the game was still in development, it's a bit of a disappointment. And please don't try the "there were no black people in medieval europe" line. Last time I checked, there also weren't any elves or darkspawn traipsing through the cobblestone thoroughfares.
 

Modifié par purplesunset, 18 novembre 2009 - 10:56 .

[JonOsterman]

They should make new models instead of a palette swap. A caucasian facial structure with dark skin color would just be weird.

[Xarne]

No they shouldnt - its not warranted for a 30 min origin - just a quick palette swap to help the suspension of disbelief until you're in Ostagar. Simple.They all died anyway, you can make up whatever you want after that.

Haha, the family screenshots - talk about 'What's wrong with this picture?'

And no BioWare isnt racist - they just left a small detail out (that will haunt them forever on)

[vhatever]

JonOsterman wrote...

They should make new models instead of a palette swap. A caucasian facial structure with dark skin color would just be weird.

I guess you don't know many Indians/pakistanis, eh?

[vhatever]

JonOsterman wrote...

They should make new models instead of a palette swap. A caucasian facial structure with dark skin color would just be weird.

I guess you don't know many Indians/pakistanis, eh?

[Dark83]

purplesunset wrote...

There are some other awkward things such as having siblings and parents that look nothing like you. I feel that there are ways this could have been avoided without much effort on Bioware's part (a simple reference to an adoption or something).

What, an entirely special origin for those players who want to be special and play something complete incongruent with the setting? Or do they have to detect what facial structure and skin tone you're assigning the character? What if you just want to be really, really dark toned? 

If a game was set in 1000AD in North America, you wouldn't see any black or asian people about. In the time period of Dragon Age, there isn't mass transit, fast travel (heck, where are the horses? Even in cutscenes there aren't any) or any way for large groups of populations to move about. In short, everybody in one region will most likely be of only one ethnicity.

In fact, it would be racist to explicitly have a non-white human origin (I'm not white, btw), since by default they shouldn't be there. "You're not a human noble, you're black/asian. You get to build our railroad."

I'm suddenly reminded of the utterly hilarious white noble (voiced by John Cleese, I believe) in Jade Empires. Awesome.

[ken52682]

Because you're adopted. Your real father is in prison and your mother is owned by the local pimp.

[Livemmo]

ken52682 wrote...

Because you're adopted. Your real father is in prison and your mother is owned by the local pimp.

SPINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNERS