537 réponses à ce sujet

[Hurkaleez]

ROTFL



12 pages of responses because some kid who clearly has no grasp on what racism is decided to rant rather than suggest a constructive fix to an issue which would probably resulted in someone actually paying attention and maybe some future result.

[Veracruz]

Pseudo310 wrote...

Hey Bioware, I have some quick feedback for you. I made a black human noble character. His whole family was white. The whole kingdom was white. That is just silly. Could you do some palette-swapping or something to make the characters who are only in the game's intro consistent with your skin tone? I realize the "no black people in Ferelden" conversation has already been done, but unless there is a reveal that my character was adopted it's jarring and dumb for my family to be the whitest white people. It was done in Fallout 3 and I really appreciated it then. It's a nice acknowledgment that not everyone playing these games is white.

Thanks.

Better yet, lock human noble options in character creator so he/she can be only white. What? Just another alternative. And why just humans? My black city elf maiden should get the same treatment!

And if you pick a portrait with an idiot face, the NPCs should treat you as an idiot too!!! Just saying.

Surely someone in this universe understands what I really mean with these lines.

[Eshaye]

It's funny nobody brings this up in Jade Empire.. (Or do they?)



There probably are actual black people and actual asian people but these continents/countries are either not yet known or known well enough to be part of the present game world. Perhaps later on...

[Zibon]

Seeing as bloodlines are very important for society in Ferelden, the adoption angle doesn't quite hold up. It doesn't help that there aren't any others in the world.



And if "there are no blacks/whatever" in this world then it simply shouldn't be an option for your character.

[purplesunset]

Dark83 wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

There are some other awkward things such as having siblings and parents that look nothing like you. I feel that there are ways this could have been avoided without much effort on Bioware's part (a simple reference to an adoption or something).

What, an entirely special origin for those players who want to be special and play something complete incongruent with the setting? Or do they have to detect what facial structure and skin tone you're assigning the character? What if you just want to be really, really dark toned? 

If a game was set in 1000AD in North America, you wouldn't see any black or asian people about. In the time period of Dragon Age, there isn't mass transit, fast travel (heck, where are the horses? Even in cutscenes there aren't any) or any way for large groups of populations to move about. In short, everybody in one region will most likely be of only one ethnicity.

In fact, it would be racist to explicitly have a non-white human origin (I'm not white, btw), since by default they shouldn't be there. "You're not a human noble, you're black/asian. You get to build our railroad."

I'm suddenly reminded of the utterly hilarious white noble (voiced by John Cleese, I believe) in Jade Empires. Awesome.

Dark83, that was a perfect example of why we should be careful about taking quotes out of context.

If you had actually read my entire post, you would have seen that I did not, in any way, shape or form ask Bioware to make a special origin for non-white characters.

Also some of the other points you made were covered by me in my post as well.

Jade Empire was different  because you weren't allowed to create a non-Asian character. THAT IS PERFECTLY FINE . But in DA, if they're going to go to give us the option to make non-white characters, then they shouldn't have made the origins in such a way that your appearance would stick out. Just a simple mention of an adoption or something would suffice. I AM NOT asking Bioware to cater to us or make a separate origin . As things stand though, it's rather awkward, and  as I mentioned, we had this discussion about this potential issue before the game was  even released.

[Dark83]

Only Casteless and Dalish Elves are supposed to have tattoos.



However, Bioware said they let us give tattoos to others and actually have Casteless and Dalish without tattoos - so we have the freedom to look like whatever we want.



If you make a totally crazy looking extremely fugly character, Leilana won't notice. Cosmetic changes are a bonus for us. They could just as easily have locked our appearances - after all, our family is set so the character should look like them anyways.

[Endarken]

What a waste of time to have to worry about this.

[purplesunset]

Veracruz wrote...

Better yet, lock human noble options in character creator so he/she can be only white. What? Just another alternative. And why just humans? My black city elf maiden should get the same treatment!

And if you pick a portrait with an idiot face, the NPCs should treat you as an idiot too!!! Just saying.

Surely someone in this universe understands what I really mean with these lines.

I give up.

This is the kind of well meaning, but overly simplistic response that utterly ruins threads like these. I know that you mean well, Vera, but your response dimisses many other aspects to this issue that was brought up.

Granted, the OP could have been a bit more mature in his original post.

For some reason, whenever race comes up...We either get angry  knee-jerk responses, or dismissive, overly-simplistic ones. Neither of the two promote any kind of useful discussion.



EDIT: the response  by Endarken directly above mine is another case in point.

Modifié par purplesunset, 18 novembre 2009 - 11:44 .

[Dark83]

purplesunset wrote...

But in DA, if they're going to go to give us the option to make non-white characters, then they shouldn't have made the origins in such a way that your appearance would stick out. Just a simple mention of an adoption or something would suffice. I AM NOT asking Bioware to cater to us or make a separate origin . As things stand though, it's rather awkward, and  as I mentioned, we had this discussion about this potential issue before the game was  even released.

I'm not saying you are. I'm saying that simply having a seperate origin would be racist. To be more precise, you'd end up with Human Noble, Human non-White. Then the issue remains where they give us the freedom to look like whatever we want - so a white human in the non-white origin would still be questionable.

My point is - they give us the freedom to look like whatever we want, and people are complaining about being given options.

[purplesunset]

Dark83 wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

But in DA, if they're going to go to give us the option to make non-white characters, then they shouldn't have made the origins in such a way that your appearance would stick out. Just a simple mention of an adoption or something would suffice. I AM NOT asking Bioware to cater to us or make a separate origin . As things stand though, it's rather awkward, and  as I mentioned, we had this discussion about this potential issue before the game was  even released.

I'm not saying you are. I'm saying that simply having a seperate origin would be racist. To be more precise, you'd end up with Human Noble, Human non-White. Then the issue remains where they give us the freedom to look like whatever we want - so a white human in the non-white origin would still be questionable.

My point is - they give us the freedom to look like whatever we want, and people are complaining about being given options.

I don't think that is quite what it is. If Bioware went the extra mile to give us options (kudos to them), then they could have gone an extra inch to not make those options as potentially awkward.

[Zibon]

Dark83 wrote...
I'm not saying you are. I'm saying that simply having
a seperate origin would be racist. To be more precise, you'd end up
with Human Noble, Human non-White. Then the issue remains where they
give us the freedom to look like whatever we want - so a white human in
the non-white origin would still be questionable.

What, you mean like having a separate origin for elves is racist?

Modifié par Zibon, 18 novembre 2009 - 11:50 .

[frokenscheim]

What you talkin' about, Ser Gilmore?

[Livemmo]

The game says the Couslands are white. The lore says the Couslands are white. You decide to make a black character. Now you go make up a story in your head as to why you live with a white family. Adopted, left on a doorstep, spent too much time in the sun, whatever. The FACT is, this isnt Fallout 3 and Dev time should be spent in other areas. Sure it couldve been included, but it wasnt. I cant make a white CJ and you cant make a black Cousland. Deal with it.

[Mick0311]

Pseudo310 wrote...

lawsie100 wrote...

yeah this is earth. That is fereldan. See the difference? No? Look harder. We have many black people on this earth. They dont. Its a fantasy. Fantasy. Fan-tasy world.

Yeah, I know most white people's fantasy world is one without black people in it.

But you guys get that I'm not complaining about the lack of black people in Ferelden, right? That's a non-issue. I'm saying that it's silly to make a black character who has a white family. Especially since there's no other black people in Ferelden, he or she had to come from somewhere. So I'm giving Bioware some feedback on that. Having multiple character models for the family wouldn't be the hard I bet.

Ahh, there it is, I was waiting for the true colors.  The Devs were out to show their true racist dream.  I have news for you; most white people aren't racist.  It is absurd to act like you know how racists "most" white people are, just as it would be absurd to act like I have an idea what it is like to live like a black man.  Grow up, make your points without playing the race card, it goes much further nowadays since the most of the country has moved on.  Sorry, but I hate that s*#t.

[Livemmo]

Mick0311 wrote...

Pseudo310 wrote...

lawsie100 wrote...

yeah this is earth. That is fereldan. See the difference? No? Look harder. We have many black people on this earth. They dont. Its a fantasy. Fantasy. Fan-tasy world.

Yeah, I know most white people's fantasy world is one without black people in it.

But you guys get that I'm not complaining about the lack of black people in Ferelden, right? That's a non-issue. I'm saying that it's silly to make a black character who has a white family. Especially since there's no other black people in Ferelden, he or she had to come from somewhere. So I'm giving Bioware some feedback on that. Having multiple character models for the family wouldn't be the hard I bet.

Ahh, there it is, I was waiting for the true colors.  The Devs were out to show their true racist dream.  I have news for you; most white people aren't racist.  It is absurd to act like you know how racists "most" white people are, just as it would be absurd to act like I have an idea what it is like to live like a black man.  Grow up, make your points without playing the race card, it goes much further nowadays since the most of the country has moved on.  Sorry, but I hate that s*#t.

Seeing as how my president is black, I dont think I should ever hear "it's because im black" ever again in my life. Thats just my oppinion though.

[purplesunset]

Livemmo wrote...

The game says the Couslands are white. The lore says the Couslands are white. You decide to make a black character. Now you go make up a story in your head as to why you live with a white family. Adopted, left on a doorstep, spent too much time in the sun, whatever. The FACT is, this isnt Fallout 3 and Dev time should be spent in other areas. Sure it couldve been included, but it wasnt. I cant make a white CJ and you cant make a black Cousland. Deal with it.

Indeed. I believe that this is also Bioware's official stance on this issue: *shrug, stop whining and deal with it*

Look, I know this might come as a shock but

1. black people do play rpg's
2. sometimes people would like to play a character that looks like them
3. For years, we have had to just suck it up and deal with any potential awkwardness (such as your family members not looking like you)
4. We will continue to just suck it up and deal with it. Heck we have even learned to joke about it 


It would be nice if someone would throw us a bone for once. Bioware could have set the example, but, understandably,  they have other priorities, and it's just a missed opportunity.

Modifié par purplesunset, 19 novembre 2009 - 12:12 .

[Eshaye]

Zibon wrote...

And if "there are no blacks/whatever" in this world then it simply shouldn't be an option for your character.

Technically it's not, they just gave us very vague options to have a character mirror whatever ethnecity we want. You're still making a Ferelden character that belongs in that lore and setting.

[aplacecalledjoes]

Seeing as how my president is black, I dont think I should ever hear "it's because im black" ever again in my life. Thats just my oppinion though.

Really?  the president of the USA is 1/2 white.

[Tielis]

I agree with the OP, and I think someone should make a mod that makes your family dark-skinned, for those who want to play a dark-skinned PC. I really don't think that would break any lore since the keep is near the Chasind folk anyway, and it really shouldn't be hard to do.

[Eshaye]

You know it's people that even think of stuff like this that worries me... The injustice is in your head my friend. BioWare has no problem creating characters of every nation and color before, don't just trash on Dragon Age because you can. Try and actually think about how the world was crafted.

[purplesunset]

Eshaye wrote...

You know it's people that even think of stuff like this that worries me... The injustice is in your head my friend. BioWare has no problem creating characters of every nation and color before, don't just trash on Dragon Age because you can. Try and actually think about how the world was crafted.

Did you even  read the post I wrote on page 11?  Accusing someone of pulling the race card is just another way of casually dismissing any point that they try to bring up.  I for one never accused Bioware of racism, and in fact, in my opinion, the issue has **NOTHING** at all to do with racism, but with awkwardness more than anything else.

Modifié par purplesunset, 19 novembre 2009 - 12:15 .

[Eshaye]

I had enough reading this: "It would be nice if someone would throw us a bone for once. Bioware could have set the example, but, understandably, they have other priorities, and it's just a missed opportunity."

But I will read your post on page 11 I do hope it has a better argument and not just trying to mask entitlement wearing the appearance of common sense.
 
edit: No sorry I don't see it. You mentioned there was talk about it with the devs but don't mention what they said... Did they really say it was too difficult technically? Or that they wouldn't do it regardless?

These people are creating a world, do they really need to feel like they need to think of every single human variance in personal preference while creating it? Or can they just be busy making something awesome regardless of how they choose to show it?

I swear there is always someone who will feel ignored for whatever reason.... That's what bugs me the most.

Modifié par Eshaye, 19 novembre 2009 - 12:33 .

[Dark83]

Zibon wrote...

What, you mean like having a separate origin for elves is racist?

Hahaha, awesome.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?
We have a City Elf Origin, because they're clearly very different from Dalish Elves.
In turn, both of those are different from Humans - indeed, entirely different race.

Did you even think before you posted? Do you seriously think that way, or did you just miss the point? To even consider a different skin tone to be a seperate origin would be to say "You are completely different from the Human Noble by virtue of the color of your skin". Which, as far as I know, is pretty much what racism is.

[purplesunset]

Eshaye wrote...

I had enough reading this: "It would be nice if someone would throw us a bone for once. Bioware could have set the example, but, understandably, they have other priorities, and it's just a missed opportunity."

But I will read your post on page 11 I do hope it has a better argument and not just trying to mask entitlement wearing the appearance of common sense.

Context. We should always put quotes within proper their context.

As I said before, whenever race comes up there are two types of responses:

1. Take off your tin foil hat ! You're just pulling the race card !
2.  Stop whining you whiners!

The first one is just an excuse to casually dismiss whatever point was brought up. The second one is a knee-jerk reasponse, which may or many not be warranted.

I should know, because I've spent time on many different messageboards, and it's the same predictable thing...every time. Only on rare (extremely rare i.e. ) occasions is there ever any productive discourse.

[CorvisTMG]

bioware has a rich history of diversity that i don't think should be marred by a single misstep



jolee bindo

valygar



uh



i think hanharr was black