537 réponses à ce sujet

[Livemmo]

CorvisTMG wrote...

bioware has a rich history of diversity that i don't think should be marred by a single misstep

jolee bindo
valygar

uh

i think hanharr was black

Such a rich history those 3 names were.

[Sigiz]

Wishpig wrote...

I was adopted... part japanese and my families all white... so it happens right?

There are FAR more black skined elves, humans, and dwarfs in the game then anyone who looks asian.

Besides... it seems like your dad and mom in the origins are the Brad and Angelina of their day.

I'm quite dark skinned myself, and I'm originating from Asia. My uploaded character Hegesmund should be quite close to the looks. How do I find my screenshots, and more over, how to I upload them to be viewed?

[Socratatus]

Pseudo310 wrote...

Hey Bioware, I have some quick feedback for you. I made a black human noble character. His whole family was white. The whole kingdom was white. That is just silly. Could you do some palette-swapping or something to make the characters who are only in the game's intro consistent with your skin tone? I realize the "no black people in Ferelden" conversation has already been done, but unless there is a reveal that my character was adopted it's jarring and dumb for my family to be the whitest white people. It was done in Fallout 3 and I really appreciated it then. It's a nice acknowledgment that not everyone playing these games is white.

Thanks.

Agreed. I made a black Human and thought to myself that they would make any family relatives black too, like In fallout 3, but no, you`re black and no one batters an eyelid. they don`t even say that maybe you`re ADOPTED which would have worked.

They go to all the effort to stick womenwarriors  in this stuff, but black guys get missed out- again.

[Draguling]

A race is created by human intervention, technically, dwarves and elves should be species.

[Eshaye]

purplesunset wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

I had enough reading this: "It would be nice if someone would throw us a bone for once. Bioware could have set the example, but, understandably, they have other priorities, and it's just a missed opportunity."

But I will read your post on page 11 I do hope it has a better argument and not just trying to mask entitlement wearing the appearance of common sense.

Context. We should always put quotes within proper their context.

As I said before, whenever race comes up there are two types of responses:

1. Take off your tin foil hat ! You're just pulling the race card !
2.  Stop whining you whiners!

The first one is just an excuse to casually dismiss whatever point was brought up. The second one is a knee-jerk reasponse, which may or many not be warranted.

I should know, because I've spent time on many different messageboards, and it's the same predictable thing...every time. Only on rare (extremely rare i.e. ) occasions is there ever any productive discourse.

You should know perhaps because you're making things out of thin air that don't actually exist? Hmm? I am both a minority and a majority in life because of my language and because of my skin color, in that order I know both sides and that's why I don't view people according to nation,race, color, gender, sexuality, people are just people. But it never fails that within minorities some members will pick at anything to point that they have been ignored either on purpose or because they've been somehow forgotten... Thing is if you don't see color (or whatever difference you have) this will NEVER occur to you. If you see yourself as different you get the impression others see you as different, and often that's not the case.

As a shy person who was afraid of people I use to assume everyone hated me, but the truth was I just wasn't very nice or approachable in the first place.... You create your own misery and injustice, not always, but often enough.



In conclusion wait or make a mod to 'correct' this. That's the beauty of games with tool sets.

Again the illusion of ethnicity was solely for the benefit of the player, that is it. Unless someone can provide actual evidence to the contrary or a BioWare person comments.

Modifié par Eshaye, 19 novembre 2009 - 01:01 .

[kroosaydur]

they shoulda done what Bethesda did in fallout 3 were the mother was never shown and her face never reviled to explain the dad always being white.

[soapymargherita]

I thought the same thing as I have a black dwarf character with a pale, red-head sister in the dwarf commoner origin.



Also find it funny how all the elves have American accents and everyone else is English.

[purplesunset]

Eshaye wrote...

....

As a shy person who was afraid of people I use to assume everyone hated me, but the truth was I just wasn't very nice or approachable in the first place.... You create your own misery and injustice, not always, but often enough.



In conclusion wait or make a mod to 'correct' this. That's the beauty of games with tool sets.

Nice thoughts Eshaye, but honestly, you're preaching to the choir. I don't want to share personal information, but I assure you, I can relate to your post. I am aware that our perceptions can incorrectly color the way we view the world, exacerbate the issue. However, sometimes it takes a kind soul to actively  reach out to you in order to help you overcome that shyness.

The same thing could apply to this situation, by the way, if you want to work out the analogy.

[vhatever]

Draguling wrote...

A race is created by human intervention, technically, dwarves and elves should be species.

Considerig I haven't seen any half elves, it does seem likely in this "universe" they are indeed a different species. I'm not sure what the hell "race is created by human intervention" means, however.

[vhatever]

soapymargherita wrote...

I thought the same thing as I have a black dwarf character with a pale, red-head sister in the dwarf commoner origin.

Also find it funny how all the elves have American accents and everyone else is English.

Actually, it sounds like you have a different father than your sister in that origin. Listen carefully to your sister's words at the beginning.

[Zibon]

Dark83 wrote...
Hahaha, awesome.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?
We have a City Elf Origin, because they're clearly very different from Dalish Elves.
In turn, both of those are different from Humans - indeed, entirely different race.

Did you even think before you posted? Do you seriously think that way, or did you just miss the point? To even consider a different skin tone to be a seperate origin would be to say "You are completely different from the Human Noble by virtue of the color of your skin". Which, as far as I know, is pretty much what racism is.

Exactly.  The rarity of blacks in human nobility could be addressed in a similar way to the rarity of elves or women in the ranks of the Grey Wardens.

Anyway, I think it simply shouldn't be an option if the the world was not designed with the existence of dark-skinned races.

[Runaan]

This is rather "aside" from the argument at hand, but I feel the need to link something that gave me a different perspective on racism and white privilege a while back: www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

A lot of this seems to hinge on the idea of the 'invisible knapsack' of white privilege concept the essay focuses on.

A more productive and sympathetic way to look at things like this (instead of the "it's a fantasy world" argument) may be to think about a reversed situation. How would white individuals feel about a "fantasy world" where 99% of the characters were black? About a human noble origin story featuring a black family in which suddenly the PC, a white male, seems out of place?

I don't really have an answer as to how this should be addressed. But in a game that includes homosexuality (another neglected group in video games; how often are homosexual men and women's discomfort with the dominant heterosexuality in video games addressed with a non-dismissive response?), I do feel it is a valid topic of discussion.

Modifié par Runaan, 19 novembre 2009 - 01:20 .

[soapymargherita]

just want to say I don't give a carp about the number of black, white or other characters. Just thought it was odd that your character's family didn't look like you, as they did in Fallout 3, as I assumed it must be a pretty simple thing to do.

[purplesunset]

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Runaan.

One thing to remember is that messageboards aren't exactly the best medium for an in depth discussion precisely  because the nature of the medium doesn't exactly encourage people to put much thought into what they post. It's easy to just jump in, ignore the previous 10 pages, post something as quickly as your fingers could type them, leave, and move on to another thread. Freedom plus anonymity = ...

[vhatever]

Runaan wrote...

This is rather "aside" from the argument at hand, but I feel the need to link something that gave me a different perspective on racism and white privilege a while back: www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

A lot of this seems to hinge on the idea of the 'invisible knapsack' of white privilege concept the essay focuses on.
of discussion.

it's kind of funny you link to something supposedly addressing "soft racism" in the form of white privilege, yet what you link is actually full of classism. Typical liberal hypocritical garbage. it's no wonder they try to control education so much. You got start young to teach them such completely illogical, hypocritical fatnasy and accept it as reality.

Modifié par vhatever, 19 novembre 2009 - 01:31 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Eh, I don't think it fits the fiction.



That's just how humans in Ferelden look... perhaps a silly fiction choice but hey they made it. The question is why didn't they just incorporate darker skin tones into the world more prominently or why did they even give the option of having a darker skin tone if it didn't fit the character.



Regardless, it isn't an issue of racism or "confirming black gamers play games too!" but an issue of the character creation and the fiction at odds.

[Runaan]

purplesunset wrote...

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Runaan.

One thing to remember is that messageboards aren't exactly the best medium for an in depth discussion precisely  because the nature of the medium doesn't exactly encourage people to put much thought into what they post. It's easy to just jump in, ignore the previous 10 pages, post something as quickly as your fingers could type them, leave, and move on to another thread. Freedom plus anonymity = ...

I'm aware, but the fact that some here are willing to converse intelligently means that anything is worthwhile. Staying silent doesn't really help the situation or anyone at all. Of course it's easy to jump in and leave without really thinking, but that doesn't mean that everyone will nor that anyone should. 

^ I might sound a bit pretentious here, but that's not my intent. Apologies. :|

[Runaan]

vhatever wrote...

Runaan wrote...

This is rather "aside" from the argument at hand, but I feel the need to link something that gave me a different perspective on racism and white privilege a while back: www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

A lot of this seems to hinge on the idea of the 'invisible knapsack' of white privilege concept the essay focuses on.
of discussion.

it's kind of funny you link to something supposedly addressing "soft racism" in the form of white privilege, yet what you link is actually full of classism. Typical liberal hypocritical garbage. it's no wonder they try to control education so much. You got start young to teach them such completely illogical, hypocritical fatnasy and accept it as reality.

I find it difficult to believe that -any- essay could address things like racism, classism, sexism, and any other -ism all at the same time. I don't think you can fault the essay, either, for failing to address an entirely different issue than its primary topic; arguments typically don't work like that, it leads to all kinds of logical fallacy.

I linked the essay in an argument about racism. I didn't link the essay to start an argument about "liberal, hypocritical garbage"--or education, which you bring up with no discernable link to your claim. 

[purplesunset]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Eh, I don't think it fits the fiction.

That's just how humans in Ferelden look... perhaps a silly fiction choice but hey they made it. The question is why didn't they just incorporate darker skin tones into the world more prominently or why did they even give the option of having a darker skin tone if it didn't fit the character.

Regardless, it isn't an issue of racism or "confirming black gamers play games too!" but an issue of the character creation and the fiction at odds.

Nice point. David Gaider could have just put his foot down and say, "this is a white world, deal with it!"

I personally wouldn't have a problem with this because look at Jade Empire. This was not an issues with Jade Empire because that is the world they created.

Look at the witcher. When I play that game I am Geralt, and the world he lives in is an all-white world, because that's how the creators wanted it. A black Geralt would have been really out of place in their world.

Modifié par purplesunset, 19 novembre 2009 - 01:41 .

[Xeiru]

Dark83 said it best. (paraphrasing)



Either roll something that fits the setting, or don't complain when you stand out in the crowd.



Its seriously very funny to me that some of you seem to expect developers to spend time which could be spent on making the game longer or more interesting, adding content etc etc on something stupid like making a different version of the game recognizing every possible race or creed out there.



Hey! What about muslims? We should take alchohol out so we don't offend them! Jews? Maybe no more pork. Asians? Probably should add some chopsticks to the game, and a katana or two, maybe a driving scene that is ridiculously more difficult than for any other race.



Its a stupid little intro, thats at max 30 minutes long and after that you can pretend it never happened, or happened in a completely different way since its only vaguely mentioned through the rest of the game.



As for EVERY NPC in the game not noticing your black. Thats probably because BLACK PEOPLE do not exist in Ferelden. You rolled something that DOES NOT EXIST in Ferelden and expected them to change the dialogue of the ENTIRE GAME to reflect that. S T F U

[Runaan]

There are actually a few black NPCs in the game--the chantry board guy in Lothering comes to mind. In addition, if black people don't exist in Ferelden, the option to create a black-skinned character really shouldn't have been included in the first place, because your creation of such a character would create a plot hole in itself, yes? 

Modifié par Runaan, 19 novembre 2009 - 01:49 .

[Daryn Mercio]

elkston wrote...

Zealuu wrote...

DrafonGire wrote...

 We're talking about a players ENJOYMENT which is the sole purpose of a game.

You have to admit it seems a little convoluted that you cannot possibly ever find enjoyment within a game unless your virtual forebears aesthetically adjust to your character in said game?

You know what's funny? Some people complained when they were forced to play a black character in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.  There were even mods to change CJ white.  Seems certain folks don't like it in the super-rare occasion that the situation is reversed.

But let us make a little suggestion and it is an affront on common sense and the social order.

Honestly, I'd rather play a black gangster than a white gangster. Unless the white gangster was in the mafia, but only because I am Italian.
But back to GTA SA, I didn't seem to care that CJ was black. It was more realistic to me that a guy who grew up in the hood is the one who has to do crimes to survive because his childhood gave him no opportunities. Idk, just my 2 cents

[vhatever]

Runaan wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Runaan wrote...

This is rather "aside" from the argument at hand, but I feel the need to link something that gave me a different perspective on racism and white privilege a while back: www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

A lot of this seems to hinge on the idea of the 'invisible knapsack' of white privilege concept the essay focuses on.
of discussion.

it's kind of funny you link to something supposedly addressing "soft racism" in the form of white privilege, yet what you link is actually full of classism. Typical liberal hypocritical garbage. it's no wonder they try to control education so much. You got start young to teach them such completely illogical, hypocritical fatnasy and accept it as reality.

I find it difficult to believe that -any- essay could address things like racism, classism, sexism, and any other -ism all at the same time. I don't think you can fault the essay, either, for failing to address an entirely different issue than its primary topic; arguments typically don't work like that, it leads to all kinds of logical fallacy.

I linked the essay in an argument about racism. I didn't link the essay to start an argument about "liberal, hypocritical garbage"--or education, which you bring up with no discernable link to your claim. 

You linked a lie-filled, ignorant, racist, and classist piece of leftist filth that's been used as propganada by ignorant, clasist,  racist liberals. It's like someone stabbing you to death and then jury acquiting  the person who stabbed you thirty times, because they didn't actually kill -- you killed yourself by bleeding too much. It's illogical trash. Like a pig, feel free to wallow in it all you wish, but I don't intend to join you, nor put up with the stench of your garbage near me.

Modifié par vhatever, 19 novembre 2009 - 01:51 .

[Runaan]

vhatever wrote...

Runaan wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Runaan wrote...

This is rather "aside" from the argument at hand, but I feel the need to link something that gave me a different perspective on racism and white privilege a while back: www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

A lot of this seems to hinge on the idea of the 'invisible knapsack' of white privilege concept the essay focuses on.
of discussion.

it's kind of funny you link to something supposedly addressing "soft racism" in the form of white privilege, yet what you link is actually full of classism. Typical liberal hypocritical garbage. it's no wonder they try to control education so much. You got start young to teach them such completely illogical, hypocritical fatnasy and accept it as reality.

I find it difficult to believe that -any- essay could address things like racism, classism, sexism, and any other -ism all at the same time. I don't think you can fault the essay, either, for failing to address an entirely different issue than its primary topic; arguments typically don't work like that, it leads to all kinds of logical fallacy.

I linked the essay in an argument about racism. I didn't link the essay to start an argument about "liberal, hypocritical garbage"--or education, which you bring up with no discernable link to your claim. 

You linked a lie-filled, ignorant, racist, and classist piece of leftist filth that's been used as propganada by ignorant, clasist,  racist liberals. It's like someone stabbing you to death and the jury acquiting  the person who stabbed you thiry times, because they didn't actually kill, you killed yourself by bleeding too much. It's illogical trash. Like a pig, feel free to wallow in it all you wish.

Nothing you say here gives me anything to defend myself or my own argument with. Nothing you say here actually points out what it is in the essay that you disagree with; you're merely throwing names and insults. While I'd like to debate with you, you're not making it very easy (or possible). If you've honestly something worthwhile to say about the essay--and if I've read it incorrectly and am, in fact, ignorant--I'd like to hear it. I could be missing something.

Feel free to send me a personal message or something about it; this topic isn't -about- the essay, after all. 

Modifié par Runaan, 19 novembre 2009 - 01:55 .

[Xeiru]

Runaan wrote...

There are actually a few black NPCs in the game--the chantry board guy in Lothering comes to mind. In addition, if black people don't exist in Ferelden, the option to create a black-skinned character really shouldn't have been included in the first place, because your creation of such a character would create a plot hole in itself, yes? 

He looked...black to you? Have you met a black person? His bone structure isn't even remotely black. Try again, i'm sure if you look hard enough I wont have to hear from you for a few hours.