537 réponses à ce sujet

[kingthrall]

what will end up happening is that bioware will make dust town full of black dwarves like a ghetto and then people will still complain that they are racially generalising on color

[spokenwordd]

Xeiru wrote...

Runaan wrote...

There are actually a few black NPCs in the game--the chantry board guy in Lothering comes to mind. In addition, if black people don't exist in Ferelden, the option to create a black-skinned character really shouldn't have been included in the first place, because your creation of such a character would create a plot hole in itself, yes? 

He looked...black to you? Have you met a black person? His bone structure isn't even remotely black. Try again, i'm sure if you look hard enough I wont have to hear from you for a few hours.

Xeiru....  I'm black and the NPC looked black to me, not that this has anythign to do with the discussion.  Have YOU ever met any black people?  You may not have figured this out but we have a large variety of shades, bone structures and hair types.  Are you serious?

[Thibbledorf26]

OP, it is perfectly reasonable to ask why black characters can't enjoy having family members who are also black in the human noble origin, or other origins. I think it is a good thing that there is no automatic change of pigment, because Bioware crafted different human countries in the world each with different accents, appearances, clothing styles etc. It makes sense that Ferelden people would be white because it is part of the game's description of Fereldens. My advice if you want to play a black human noble character is to either ignore the skin difference, or assume that one of your ancestors was bethrothed to a Chasind or someone from Rivain (the latter most likely) and the genes surfaced in your character. Rivainites are seen in Ferelden now and again, like Duncan. If this is not satisfactory, I am sure someone will make a mod to change your family member's appearance to different skin tones, via a downloadable mod.

[Swedefist]

I've been laughing too hard to make it through the entire post, so this might've been answered elsewhere, but how are the Qunari considered black? I didn't even think the Qunari were considered human, unless there was a Codex about it somewhere I missed. And as far as I can tell, my color settings must be really messed up on my TV because Sten looks like a big humanoid with a slight tan. His facial features don't look particularly black or particularly white.



The Chasind don't look particularly black either. The crazy Chasind in Lothering doesn't look like any black person I've ever seen.

[Swedefist]

Dark83 wrote...

. Similarly, a Dalish Elf has tattoos - period. A casteless dwarf has tattoos - period. No other characters have tattoos - this is the setting.

 

Odd considering my first character was a Human Noble with tattoos.

[Dark83]

Swedefist wrote...

The Chasind don't look particularly black either. The crazy Chasind in Lothering doesn't look like any black person I've ever seen.

I noticed this last night as well.

Clearly, the Chasind are composed entirely of albino black people.

[Dark83]

Swedefist wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

. Similarly, a Dalish Elf has tattoos - period. A casteless dwarf has tattoos - period. No other characters have tattoos - this is the setting.

 

Odd considering my first character was a Human Noble with tattoos.

My second character was a Mage with tattoos.

The point however, is that within the setting, they don't - as in nobody else will see it. Just like how everyone will see a casteless dwarf with a facial tattoo, even if you didn't give him one.

What you're describing here is the difference between the actor and the role. If a black actor was playing Hamlet, to all the characters around him he's still a Dane, not a black man. The narrative doesn't care about the actor playing the role - the character is set. This is precisely the situation here. If you are a Dwarf Commoner, the role is Dwarf Commoner. The actor we put into this role is irrelevant except for our own vanity.

The casting director can say "We ought to only have a Dane play Hamlet", or he can say "Sure, this is high school, whoever wants to play Hamlet can play Hamlet."

Bioware went the latter route, only to have the actor playing Hamlet go "Hey man, I'm a black man! Claudius should totally go 'Whoa, you're black!' and Gertrude should be black!"

[Ischkwezrn]

(somebody has probably said this before in the thread)

I wouldn't mind playing a CRPG in some sort of Africa or pseudo-Africa setting, and if that game would require your character to be black it wouldn't make me mad, even though I'm about as white as an ice cream, because it would make sense.

One of the GuildWars expansions did that actually.. and probably some other games too.



In that case the game company doesn't need to "acknowledge the millions of pasty white/yellow/brown fans" playing the gaem. :3

[kroosaydur]

RP that your father had an affair. thats what i would do.

[Livemmo]

will a mod please close this retardedism (yes another of my own words)

[Nouv Paris]

Xarne wrote...

Livemmo wrote...

We can all agree though that black people should be called black instead of 'african american' right?

Yes.
No other 'american' is immediately tagged as their nation of origin and then their nation of residence.

Never heard anyone say 'two english american' males just robbed me.
You would simply say two white guys

Or "I was watching this Icelandic-American comedian on Tv, he was hilarious"
He would just be a comedian (unless he was black then you would of course make note that he wasnt a comedian who was black, he was a black comedian).

German-American, Italian-American, Irish-American...never heard these terms.
Since they all have the same(relative) skin color, they are all just 'people'.
But as soon as the brotha steps in the room, oh here comes that african-american.
Meanwhile I havent met 1 black dude actually from Africa. I know some from Brooklyn, some from Newark - have yet to meet one from, say, Botswana or Mozambique - but immediately they get that special brand, letting all around know he is different from the rest. Political Correctness - what a crock of sh*t

You've never heard the termn "asian american?" 

As for the "african american" thing, most black people don't give two ****s whether you call them "black" or "african american."  One of the reason "african american" became popular is because black was used as a slur, and even the word itself has negative connotations.  People associate "black" with evil, death, etc. 

Also you need to understand that the african american term came about because black americans wanted to partially identify with their african origins.  Many american blacks can NOT trace their roots back to africa--they can only go as far back as their slave master's family (if they can even trace that far).  So you basically have a large portion of the black american community who doesn't know anything about their extended family history or ancestory.  It's basically "my family came from Africa" and that's it.  There's no "my mother came from ireland and I still have extended family in dublin."  Or "my father came from italy, and I'll be visiting his side of the family next year."  No.   Many black americans don't have that luxury, since ANY semblance of african heritage (be it their country of origin, language, religion, customs, family ties, etc) was destroyed during slavery.  

So you'll just have to deal with "african american," since people would actually like to somewhat identfiy with their heritage/origin, especially when they have so little to search.  

I don't know why people get so bent out of shape over the term.  Many "white" people celebrate thier italian/irish/german/etc heritage.  Many of them have practices/customs that still persist today.  So while they may not explicitly call themselves "german americans" they still cling to ways of preserving their heritage and origins.  The best that many blacks can do is to simply call themselves "african american."  They don't know if their ancestors came from congo, egypt, nigeria or whatever.  Africa is a huge continent with MANY different countries, languages, religions, traditions, etc.  So, why should we criticize african americans for at least trying to find some connection with it, even if that connection is only a title.        

 

[Ischkwezrn]

I remember hearing a story (or maybe it was a joke) about an immigrant from South Africa in the US, who applied for a grant for African-Americans.



Problem was that he was white, not black, so he didn't get the grant at all.

[spokenwordd]

vhatever wrote...

gobslat wrote...


at the risk of being slightly off topic, several people have expressed the view that black people would not have been common in 12th century england. while agreeing generally with some later views that this game is in fact NOT set in england I feel it would be useful to point out that black people most certainly DID exist 12th century england and they mostly would have been Nobles and Traders.

the turn of that millenium was the hight of the Moors power and they occupied almost the entire Iberian peninsula. for example; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors

or how about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othello (tho i realize this was set a few hundred years later)
.

LOL. Maybe 5% of the Moorish army was black. And they were conscripts, not trader or nobleman. The moors were berber and arabs, both "white"/caucasian. The either fought or they died.

No offense intended but you have no idea what you are talking about.  First of all the Moors were not 5% black and Arabs are NOT white.  Although there was a mixed ethnicity amongst the Moors the very word "Moor" means BLACK.. hmmm I wonder why?  There was a heavy mixture of West African peope that made up the Moors, this and group from North Africa and the area we now call Portugal.  They were not white.

This is off topic but if you are going to quote facts about history then please be correct.

[Dark83]

Wait, aren't the Portuguese white? Or at least eggshell?

[Deck94]

No mod. The designers meant for this to be a DLC.

You can find out what really happened with Ma and Pa in the bedroom.

Stealth will be required in this new content so build your characters accordingly!

[captainsavvy]

I have noticed one thing that seems to keep reappearing.

Many posters in favour of having the game change Ma and Pa Cousland to match your chosen skin colour, are saying "why can't there be a black noble family?".
This is a perfectly acceptable statement. There's no reason why there can't be, except that said black noble family are unlikely to be the Couslands.

According to the game lore, the Couslands have owned Highever since before Ferelden became Ferelden. Due to the well-documented lack of other black skinned Ferelden's, it seems genetically improbable that the Cousland's would be entirely black.
To have ruled Highever for that long, they would need to reproduce, and unless they were able to seek out every apparently well-hidden black person in the country for centuries, they will have had to mate with one of the more dominantly available white people. After centuries of this, there is a greater probability of white looking offspring than black.

As has been pointed out in this thread before, if there is a black person in their genealogy then it's possible for 2 white people to have a black child. I personally know someone who, though not the darkest shade of black, would still be considered such, and he has a twin brother who is white.

To summarise my point.
There is no reason that there can't be a black noble family. None at all.
It's just unlikely for that family to be the Couslands.

Modifié par captainsavvy, 20 novembre 2009 - 06:18 .

[Keybasher]

WTF? What are you racist?



They're your family!!! You should love them, no matter their skin colour! geeze.

[Nouv Paris]

Johohoho.Ehehehe wrote...

Nouv Paris wrote...

... the word itself [black] has negative connotations.  People associate "black" with evil, death, etc. 

I really dislike generalisations based solely on unfounded assumption that "people" [who the hell is it anyway?] do that, think this etc. As for the word "black" as an example, it is the most used colour for luxury goods with conservative spirit, especially togehter with gold letters. When combined with red, it usually associates mystery and sex or lively nightlife. For example, I cannot imagine myself buying other jacket or car than black. I like that colour.

Even if there was a subject called "people" or "society" (as it is not) it would be based on the majority, i.e. average, which is rather a bad example not worthy of following.

In any event, preventing naming black things "black" just because they are actually black is a perfect example why I consider political correctness a closed circuit of lingual stupidity and its heralds idiots without comparison.

Please dude...look up the various definitions of black in any dictionary, and tell me you don't see NUMEROUS negative connotations associated with it.  Who are you kidding?  Look at the damn game itself.  The "black city" in the fade?  Evil.  

Go to www.dictionary.com and look at all the definitions and synonyms.  




 

[Leather_Rebel90]

I... Just... Wow... Some people are utterly beyond hope. 99% of the people in this thread fall into that category. Does it REALLY bother you THAT much? Pathetic. You are all pathetic.

[Parhasard]

Nouv Paris wrote...

Johohoho.Ehehehe wrote...

Nouv Paris wrote...

... the word itself [black] has negative connotations.  People associate "black" with evil, death, etc. 

I really dislike generalisations based solely on unfounded assumption that "people" [who the hell is it anyway?] do that, think this etc. As for the word "black" as an example, it is the most used colour for luxury goods with conservative spirit, especially togehter with gold letters. When combined with red, it usually associates mystery and sex or lively nightlife. For example, I cannot imagine myself buying other jacket or car than black. I like that colour.

Even if there was a subject called "people" or "society" (as it is not) it would be based on the majority, i.e. average, which is rather a bad example not worthy of following.

In any event, preventing naming black things "black" just because they are actually black is a perfect example why I consider political correctness a closed circuit of lingual stupidity and its heralds idiots without comparison.

Please dude...look up the various definitions of black in any dictionary, and tell me you don't see NUMEROUS negative connotations associated with it.  Who are you kidding?  Look at the damn game itself.  The "black city" in the fade?  Evil.  

Go to www.dictionary.com and look at all the definitions and synonyms.  


 

I like black.  My favorite jacket is black.  I've also never thought of the word "black" as negative.  I'd like to meet these "people" that do.  Is there a convention?

edit: grammars!!

Modifié par Parhasard, 20 novembre 2009 - 07:54 .

[purplesunset]

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...

I... Just... Wow... Some people are utterly beyond hope. 99% of the people in this thread fall into that category. Does it REALLY bother you THAT much? Pathetic. You are all pathetic.

Since we're throwing out statistics...let me guess that there's a 99% chance that you didn't bother to read 99% of the posts in the thread.

[Leather_Rebel90]

purplesunset wrote...

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...

I... Just... Wow... Some people are utterly beyond hope. 99% of the people in this thread fall into that category. Does it REALLY bother you THAT much? Pathetic. You are all pathetic.

Since we're throwing out statistics...let me guess that there's a 99% chance that you didn't bother to read 99% of the posts in the thread.

I read enough to realize that there's enough ignorant supporters of this thread to change BioWare's mind, which that in itself bothers me. I hope BioWare isn't as dumb as CDProjekt Red, you have to ignore 50% of your fanbase, CDProjekt has not learned this.

"Hey I'm mad 'cuz Triss has too big of bewbs"
"Kay, we'll reduce them."
Next patch it happens. While I don't care about breast size in a game or IRL, the fact that they listened to something that petty bothers me.

[Parhasard]

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...
"Hey I'm mad 'cuz Triss has too big of bewbs"
"Kay, we'll reduce them."

[purplesunset]

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...

I... Just... Wow... Some people are utterly beyond hope. 99% of the people in this thread fall into that category. Does it REALLY bother you THAT much? Pathetic. You are all pathetic.

Since we're throwing out statistics...let me guess that there's a 99% chance that you didn't bother to read 99% of the posts in the thread.

I read enough to realize that there's enough ignorant supporters of this thread to change BioWare's mind, which that in itself bothers me. I hope BioWare isn't as dumb as CDProjekt Red, you have to ignore 50% of your fanbase, CDProjekt has not learned this.

"Hey I'm mad 'cuz Triss has too big of bewbs"
"Kay, we'll reduce them."
Next patch it happens. While I don't care about breast size in a game or IRL, the fact that they listened to something that petty bothers me.

It's a petty issue  to you. There have been some cogent posts in this thread that show that it is not quite on the same level as requesting bigger boobs.

Anyway, I don't think Bioware paid much attention to this thread. People tend to stay away from anything involving race.

The bottomline is that David Gaider made Ferelden an all white world. He even said as much for he based Ferelden on  Northern Europe. There's zero chance he is going to change his lore, so I don't think this thread would have any influence. As a writer, he has the artistic right to create whatever world he wants, and I respect that right.

Sure, it would have been nice for black rpg fans to get to play in a world where things  won't feel awkward, but Dragon Age is simply not that game. As has been mentioned before, it would be like asking to play a black guy in Jade Empire.  That would be too incongruous with the setting. Similarly, you just have to play a Caucasion in Ferelden, and if you choose not to, it's your own fault if things are awkward.

Modifié par purplesunset, 20 novembre 2009 - 08:05 .