537 réponses à ce sujet

[vyvexthorne]

Games have limitations.. They always have. Fallout 3 was pretty unique in it's beginning having skin tone and facial features associated with what you chose as yours.. but it still didn't alter the father that much. He still looked kind of the same no matter what.. just different tones and eye cheek shapes. With this game they would have to have built different models for each of the parents for all of the skin tones. Think of the beginning to NWN 2. I thought it would be fun to make an old mage.... That character didn't work at all with the story line.. In Dragon Age how weird would the Human Noble story be if you made a guy look old. How weird would most games be trying to play an old character.

It's called game limitation. Until they can make a godlike game engine that can think around these problems itself using it's amazing A.I... all games will have limitations.

[purplesunset]

vyvexthorne wrote...

Games have limitations.. They always have. Fallout 3 was pretty unique in it's beginning having skin tone and facial features associated with what you chose as yours.. but it still didn't alter the father that much. He still looked kind of the same no matter what.. just different tones and eye cheek shapes. With this game they would have to have built different models for each of the parents for all of the skin tones. Think of the beginning to NWN 2. I thought it would be fun to make an old mage.... That character didn't work at all with the story line.. In Dragon Age how weird would the Human Noble story be if you made a guy look old. How weird would most games be trying to play an old character.
It's called game limitation. Until they can make a godlike game engine that can think around these problems itself using it's amazing A.I... all games will have limitations.

Please refer to my previous post on p. 16.

It's not just technical limitations (as you rightfull pointed out), it's also a LORE issue. Dragon Age is simply set in an all white world, so it's the user's fault for creating something incongruent with the setting and not expecting it to feel awkward.

[Nouv Paris]

Parhasard wrote...

Nouv Paris wrote...

Johohoho.Ehehehe wrote...

Nouv Paris wrote...

... the word itself [black] has negative connotations.  People associate "black" with evil, death, etc. 

I really dislike generalisations based solely on unfounded assumption that "people" [who the hell is it anyway?] do that, think this etc. As for the word "black" as an example, it is the most used colour for luxury goods with conservative spirit, especially togehter with gold letters. When combined with red, it usually associates mystery and sex or lively nightlife. For example, I cannot imagine myself buying other jacket or car than black. I like that colour.

Even if there was a subject called "people" or "society" (as it is not) it would be based on the majority, i.e. average, which is rather a bad example not worthy of following.

In any event, preventing naming black things "black" just because they are actually black is a perfect example why I consider political correctness a closed circuit of lingual stupidity and its heralds idiots without comparison.

Please dude...look up the various definitions of black in any dictionary, and tell me you don't see NUMEROUS negative connotations associated with it.  Who are you kidding?  Look at the damn game itself.  The "black city" in the fade?  Evil.  

Go to www.dictionary.com and look at all the definitions and synonyms.  


 

I like black.  My favorite jacket is black.  I've also never thought of the word "black" as negative.  I'd like to meet these "people" that do.  Is there a convention?

edit: grammars!!

Black isn't as strongly stigmatized now as it was 50ish years ago, but the stigma still remains.  Are you guys HONESTLY telling me you've never heard or used black as a synonym for something negative/evil/etc?  Again, look at the various definitions themselves.   

[vyvexthorne]

purplesunset wrote...

vyvexthorne wrote...

Games have limitations.. They always have. Fallout 3 was pretty unique in it's beginning having skin tone and facial features associated with what you chose as yours.. but it still didn't alter the father that much. He still looked kind of the same no matter what.. just different tones and eye cheek shapes. With this game they would have to have built different models for each of the parents for all of the skin tones. Think of the beginning to NWN 2. I thought it would be fun to make an old mage.... That character didn't work at all with the story line.. In Dragon Age how weird would the Human Noble story be if you made a guy look old. How weird would most games be trying to play an old character.
It's called game limitation. Until they can make a godlike game engine that can think around these problems itself using it's amazing A.I... all games will have limitations.

Please refer to my previous post on p. 16.

It's not just technical limitations (as you rightfull pointed out), it's also a LORE issue. Dragon Age is simply set in an all white world, so it's the user's fault for creating something incongruent with the setting and not expecting it to feel awkward.

It's the users fault?... lol.. that's the silliest thing I've ever heard.  My point was trying to say that it's no ones fault.  There are just limitations.  And Dragon Age set in an all white universe is most likely because most of the character designers were white.. and weren't thinking about race at all..  I haven't read the books but i doubt there's anything in the lore saying.. "and it was an all white universe."  

[H8Cr1me]

 A black adventurer, a brown adventurer, and a white adventurer came upon an arch-wizard. After completing a quest for the wizard, the wizard agreed to grant them three wishes. The black adventurer said, "I'd like for all of my black people to be transported to Earth." The wizard agreed and, poof, all the black people of Ferelden were transported to Earth. The brown adventurer said, "Earth sound good. I'd like for all of my people to be transported to Earth too." The archwizard waved his had and, poof, all the brown people in Ferelden were transported to Earth. The archwizard turned to the white adventurer and asked him what he would like for his wish. The white adventurer said, "So you mean to tell me that all of the black people, and all of the brown people in Ferelden have been transported to Earth?....well....I'll have a flagon of ale then."

-Brother Genitivi, The Lost Lore of Brother Genitivi

[Grygus]

Wow this thread makes me sad. What an indictment of this community.



The OP pointed out a role-playing incongruity in a role-playing game. 16 pages later the community has constructed and annihilated several straw man arguments about racism. The OP's complaint isn't really about race.



You can complain that Ferelden is all-white, but there's no way to know that when you're making your first character. It's not a valid criticism of the OP's action.



The fact is that you can make a character and then apparently be unrelated biologically to your biological parents. That's something to be legitimately pointed out in the context of a role-playing game, and isn't racist or playing the race card... it is unrelated to race, and just about immersion, which is something any good RPG (and this IS a good RPG) should be striving for. Right? This isn't even to mention that the OP's proposed change would modify absolutely nothing in everyone else's game. Where are the objections coming from?

[Heathen Pride]

OmG. Time to call the Rainbow Coalition and PC Enforcement squad.



Seriously, as others have said: The game doesn't take place on Earth.



There's also the fact that most of the purchasers of this game will be White males so it makes sense to have the characters reflect that fact. Audiences get more enjoyment out of characters they can relate to.

[purplesunset]

Heathen Pride wrote...

There's also the fact that most of the purchasers of this game will be White males so it makes sense to have the characters reflect that fact. Audiences get more enjoyment out of characters they can relate to.

I hope you're aware of the irony in your own statement...

[Heathen Pride]

purplesunset wrote...

Heathen Pride wrote...

There's also the fact that most of the purchasers of this game will be White males so it makes sense to have the characters reflect that fact. Audiences get more enjoyment out of characters they can relate to.

I hope you're aware of the irony in your own statement...

To clarify: It doesn't take place on Earth therefore doesn't have to meet politicially correct standards for enforced race quotas. It doesn't have to include Blacks. It also wouldn't have to include Whites, but it does and they're in the majority in the game as they are in North America(for the next 20 years or so). 

[Dark83]

What gets to me is that the core of the issue is that Bioware has given us the freedom to look like whatever we want, and people complain.



We can have any actor (be it Patrick Stewart or Samuel L Jackson) play any role, but it doesn't change the role. Hamlet is still emo even if he's played by Captain Picard or Shaft. Achellies is still Greek even if he's played by Morgan Freeman.

[Midgetface]

Grygus wrote...

Wow this thread makes me sad. What an indictment of this community.

The OP pointed out a role-playing incongruity in a role-playing game. 16 pages later the community has constructed and annihilated several straw man arguments about racism. The OP's complaint isn't really about race.

You can complain that Ferelden is all-white, but there's no way to know that when you're making your first character. It's not a valid criticism of the OP's action.

The fact is that you can make a character and then apparently be unrelated biologically to your biological parents. That's something to be legitimately pointed out in the context of a role-playing game, and isn't racist or playing the race card... it is unrelated to race, and just about immersion, which is something any good RPG (and this IS a good RPG) should be striving for. Right? This isn't even to mention that the OP's proposed change would modify absolutely nothing in everyone else's game. Where are the objections coming from?

This. I hadn't even read this thread and it already bothered me that my little black dwarf had a sister pale as pearl. I thought that, after Fallout 3, games would have adapted to that.

[Malkut]

purplesunset wrote...

Please refer to my previous post on p. 16.

It's not just technical limitations (as you rightfull pointed out), it's also a LORE issue. Dragon Age is simply set in an all white world

This is moronic.  There aren't any "white" people in the game.  Neither the African or Caucasian races exist in this world.  Fereldians range from fair to dark skinned.   Society doesn't seem to differentiate between skin colors.  There is no established reason why a dark-skinned family could not rise to the nobility.

[Heathen Pride]

Malkut wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

Please refer to my previous post on p. 16.

It's not just technical limitations (as you rightfull pointed out), it's also a LORE issue. Dragon Age is simply set in an all white world

This is moronic.  There aren't any "white" people in the game.  Neither the African or Caucasian races exist in this world.  Fereldians range from fair to dark skinned.   Society doesn't seem to differentiate between skin colors.  There is no established reason why a dark-skinned family could not rise to the nobility.

They look White to me, meaning they have typical European facial features and skin colour. They're not European as Europe doesn't exist in the Dragon Age universe.  But they obviously reflect the racial features of Europeans.

Anyhow I think many people are fed up with racial whines as they're constantly inundated with them via the media. However, I do understand that it is odd that if you make your character resemble an Africoid your parents still resemble Europeans.  

[-Solrek-]

Malkut, good point. Didn't Loghain rise from being a commoner after all?



It was up to Bioware to make their game world more diverse, but they didn't put much effort into it. I'm Asian and will always be thankful they made Jade Empire, but Bioware could have made DAO take place in a much more diverse world. They invented the lore after all.

[damage1900]

Grygus wrote...

Wow this thread makes me sad. What an indictment of this community.

The OP pointed out a role-playing incongruity in a role-playing game. 16 pages later the community has constructed and annihilated several straw man arguments about racism. The OP's complaint isn't really about race.

You can complain that Ferelden is all-white, but there's no way to know that when you're making your first character. It's not a valid criticism of the OP's action.

The fact is that you can make a character and then apparently be unrelated biologically to your biological parents. That's something to be legitimately pointed out in the context of a role-playing game, and isn't racist or playing the race card... it is unrelated to race, and just about immersion, which is something any good RPG (and this IS a good RPG) should be striving for. Right? This isn't even to mention that the OP's proposed change would modify absolutely nothing in everyone else's game. Where are the objections coming from?

Agreed. What was the OP feedback, somehow escalated into something else all together. Frankly, I wouldn't give people here the time of day considering how 'open minded' they are.

The skin variation issue could have been so easily dealt with in the design. In the last scene, we could have just added extra dialogue explaining this. Bioware could have then tagged a DLC on about finding you biological parents, history, etc.

[Dark83]

I think they should just have done it like JE and just given preset choices. Less complaints of this nature.



...and maybe then at least half the presets won't be ugly.

[vhatever]

Man I wish we could just ban half the people in here keeping this thread alive with arguments which have been debunked a dozen times over/ There is no plot hole. There is a much bigger plot hole when you can make your main character older than your parents, or you are a noble with face tat.

[Hurkind]

i found it to be verry funny that i made a black city elf and at the start of my game my father is a white elf...thank the maker his mom not in the picture cuz she would have sum splaining to do. lol

[Travyplx]

Perhaps your character was born with melano­cytes producing more melanin than your average resident of Ferelden does? I mean, it happens in reality in the form of melanocyte/melanin deficiency (being an albino)... who is to say that in this fantasy world the opposite can't happen?

[ne12o]

its called bad design choice by the devs.

they allowed you to create a black charactor, in an all white family all white world.

[Ezekiel Stone]

MrGOH wrote...

Your noble wasn't black, just extremely well-tanned.

Made me lol