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#426
vhatever

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ne12o wrote...

its called bad design choice by the devs.
they allowed you to create a black charactor, in an all white family all white world.



You can't make a black character. You can make a darkly tanned/mediumish brown character at the most.

Consider yourself a reverse michael jackson.

It would be a bad design choice if they didn't allow you to modify your characters at all, and that is the only solution to all these imaginary problems. Would you rather that?

When did so many idiots start playing RPGs? used to be the smarter genre demographic.

#427
Falklol

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ne12o wrote...

its called bad design choice by the devs.
they allowed you to create a black charactor, in an all white family all white world.


White world? Ferelden isn't the "world" if that's what you think. I'd like to compare Ferelden to a northern european country like Sweden or Germany, where I doubt there were many black people in the medieval times.

I think Tevinter is inhabited by black people though, not sure, but the Tevinter mages I've seen so far have all been black as far as I can recall. Same probably goes for Rivain, where Duncans father is from, and the other Northern regions of Thedas.

#428
Dark83

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Ferelden does seem kind of tiny, and also xenophobic.

#429
vhatever

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Falklol wrote...

[

I think Tevinter is inhabited by black people though, not sure, but the Tevinter mages I've seen so far have all been black as far as I can recall. Same probably goes for Rivain, where Duncans father is from, and the other Northern regions of Thedas.



Maybe I need a new graphics card, but all the ones I've come across look like evil versions of jean luc picard.

#430
Wolff Laarcen

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vhatever wrote...
You can't make a black character. You can make a darkly tanned/mediumish brown character at the most.

Lies.

I made a black character with clearly african features.  Yeah his parents and entire family were white and it made the intro somewhat lame but so what they all died anyway.  Good riddance.

Modifié par Wolff Laarcen, 21 novembre 2009 - 01:39 .


#431
Venthiros

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Hmm,  I don't have the opportunity of choosing my skin color in this game. I would like to make my quarterback skin color whitish/olive skin tone.  Who would I go about talking to? I feel like I am being discriminated against =)

Seriously though, where can I find an Italian American college at? My grandparents were harshly discriminated against when they immigrated to the United States as well as every other Italian American at the time.  Where can I get reparations?

Modifié par Venthiros, 21 novembre 2009 - 02:35 .


#432
Nouv Paris

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Well since this thread jumped the shark long ago:

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Nouv Paris, 21 novembre 2009 - 02:40 .


#433
purplesunset

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The thread devolved just as I predicted, but isn't that something in itself?

If race was a non-issue as we like to claim,  why do the race discussions end up this way ?

However, there are some meaningful responses in this thread which do relate to Dragon Age and to gaming in general. If you read between the lines of these responses, there are many telling sociological implications:

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1. The LUXURY of NOT having to think about race.

As another poster pointed out, the Bioware people who made Ferelden into a Caucasian-only  place, weren't even thinking about race. They did not make it all white because they're "Evil racists." Let me repeat: this was not a consious malicious act.

They simply weren't thinking about race at all, because they didn't have to.

Many sociologists refer to this as the number one white privelege...The fact that white people can afford to not even have to think about race.

A white person creates a video game protagonist, they imagine his personality and characteristics, but unless they're consciously thinking about race, the character will invariably be white. Does this mean they're an evil racist? NO NO NO.  Of course not. It's just that when you're the default majority race, you can afford to not have to think about it. Could this potentially disappoint non-white people who want to play themselves in the game? yes.  Can we blame the game creator? No, but at the same time, don't just attack the person who brought up the issue.

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2.  Accusations of  having a VICTIM mentality

The number one STRAW MAN arguement in this thread is the accusation that people like the OP are just "pulling the race card." However, accusing someone of "pulling the race card" is often simply a way to casually dismiss their point. You're  just setting up a straw man and easily demolishing it.

Are there black people who shoot themselves in the foot with a  defeatist victim mentality? Absolutely.

But this does not, by any stretch, mean that *EVERY SINGLE* black person who sees an issue is just being paranoid and wearing a tin foil hat. This relates to the point in number one. The reason black people are more race conscious, and seem paranoid,  is because they simply can't afford the luxury of not having to think about race.

Why is this so ? (If you don't wan't an explanation just ignore  the following and skip down to number 3 )

{{{{{{

I have a unique perspective on this because I'm black but I grew up in the caribbean before I came to America. Race relations in the Caribbean are very different because in many countries, blacks are a majority or  at least 50%.

Before I came to America, I always thought African Americans were too paranoid and used to exaggerate things. Boy was I wrong. You see, in America blacks are a minority, and that changes things a great deal compared to the Caribbean. And they were brought to America against their will, and so people today have to deal with the consequences of their history. I personally experienced a lot more awkwardness and instances of racism in America than I did in the Caribbean. I won't go into detail, but  to say that I'm just wearing a tin foil hat and imagining things would be absurd. }}}}}}

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3.  The OP's post is more of a ROLEPLAYING issue in Dragon Age, NOT a racism issue

As I pointed out in a previous post, this issue that the OP brought up has NOTHING at all to do with malicious racism. It is about roleplaying awkwardness more than anything else. Black rpg gamers have endured these kind of awkwardness in the past. Many of us have learnt to simply joke about it :)


Heathen Pride

OmG. Time to call the Rainbow Coalition and PC Enforcement squad.

There's also the fact that most of the purchasers of this game will be White males so it makes sense to have the characters reflect that fact. Audiences get more enjoyment out of characters they can relate to.



The extreme irony of this quote is that while Heathen pride was telling  the OP to relax and not make a big deal of the issue, he also simultaneously made an arguement for why the OP would like to play someone who looks like himself in the game.

Heathen pride, I completely agree with you that this should NOT be an issue about political correctness or race quotas. But from strictly a roleplaying perspective, I hope you can see how the OP's issue relates to your quote.

So I encourage the OP to just play a white character. That's what I would do, even though I am black myself, and am sympathetic to his post. It's an all white setting, and if you don't want to deal with role-playing awkwardness, then make a character that fits the setting. We will simply have to wait for another game that finds a way to circumvent this kind of thing. It could happen  ! :DB)

Modifié par purplesunset, 21 novembre 2009 - 09:09 .


#434
KalosCast

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....this thread is still going? Seriously?

#435
Dark83

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You know what? I'm not white.
I don't have to think about it either. When I consider characters, I forget about skin color too.
When I make a character born in Cormyr, he's white. When I make a character in D&D, by default, he's white - or he's an exotic traveller from out of the campaign area. When I make a character for OA, by default - he's oriental! (Gasp!)

You know what? Dismissing the "dismissal by invoking race card" is also in error. In a case such as this, it perfectly reflects the issue.

The character is Cousland. They gave us the freedom to put whatever actor we wish into that role. If nothing else, at least the blacks have a fairly handsome male black preset. Asians? Nah, we get some ugly semi-man. Skin color? The various dark shades are nice. Yellow makes you look like you have jaundice.

So guess what? I'm not white, I'm a visible minority, and I am calling BS - the "race card" is being played with a combination of entitlement and self-prosecution.

Edit: Heck, no game other than Jade Empires has made an appropriate East Asian skin tone - we always end up looking like we have jaundice, a sickly yellow. I'd say that's racisim more than anything - in JE, everybody is normal. Instead of "Oh hey, don't forget the yellow skin!" :?

Modifié par Dark83, 21 novembre 2009 - 09:26 .


#436
Kwonne

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Kozuka78 wrote...

I mean it seems incredibly prejudiced but realistically I doubt there were many black people in 12th century england either, and since bioware seems to be going for alot of realism in this game you can understand why there arnt many people of none white origin in fereldan.


There are dwarves, elves, werewolves, ogres in Ferelden, but no black people? 

Now that's realism! :D

#437
purplesunset

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Dark 83:

We actually agree with each other more than you think. Pay careful attention to my post above and especially to point number 3.

Your analogy about a black man playing the role of Hamlet is  a pertinent one. I'm glad Bioware gave us the chance to play their "Hamlet" as a black man. However,  remember that a role playing game is a bit different from a play, and it's understandable that some people would want to roleplay a character in game that looks like them. Look at how many people downloaded the "white CJ" mod for Grand Theft Auto. They were given a chance to play  "Othello" as a white person, but they had trouble relating and felt they needed to download a white CJ mod.

Modifié par purplesunset, 21 novembre 2009 - 09:50 .


#438
tinfish

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It will never cease to amaze me what these people will find to complain about.




#439
alxqp

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Ok, its not only about skin color btw. I made human noble that looks like some grandma and well... I looked older than my older brother, mom and dad... what kind of daughter is this? Maybe cocain does terrible things to wealthy children, but not so terrible :P

#440
purplesunset

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tinfish wrote...

It will never cease to amaze me what these people will find to complain about.


Who do you mean by "these people" ?

Anyway, did you even bother to read past the first post ?

I grant that the first post comes across as whiny and could have been delivered in a much more constructive and  mature way. 

However, there are some cogent responses in this thread, and the issue is more than just pointless complaining as you see it. It's more about giving Bioware feedback about a roleplaying subject in a roleplaying game. Feel free to DISAGREE with the feedback, but at the same time don't just shrug it off as "complaining" without a thorough understanding of the issue.

alxqp wrote...

Ok, its not only about skin color btw. I
made human noble that looks like some grandma and well... I looked
older than my older brother, mom and dad... what kind of daughter is
this? Maybe cocain does terrible things to wealthy children, but not so
terrible :P


You're absolutely right. As was pointed out before, it's not just about skin color. I think it's unfortunate that the original post wasn't as thoughtful as it could be.

Modifié par purplesunset, 21 novembre 2009 - 10:27 .


#441
Prexxus

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Venthiros wrote...

Image IPB

Hmm,  I don't have the opportunity of choosing my skin color in this game. I would like to make my quarterback skin color whitish/olive skin tone.  Who would I go about talking to? I feel like I am being discriminated against =)

Seriously though, where can I find an Italian American college at? My grandparents were harshly discriminated against when they immigrated to the United States as well as every other Italian American at the time.  Where can I get reparations?


God thats halarious! What an amazing game! Check out dem ghetto bootys!

#442
Tosheroon

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Do people realise that the character creator has to be applicable to all subsequent Bioware or fan-created mods? That perhaps when designing this epic game, the developers knew they had to provide freedom to create character concepts that applied outside the main campaign.

#443
purplesunset

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Although it would be nice to see some sort of acknowledgement from Bioware that they understood the full scope of the issues brought up in this thread, I also understand why Bioware would choose to simply ignore it and stay away from it.

However, within the wide range of topics, there were many points brought up herewhich relate directly to Dragon Age and the world they created.

I tried to summarize these points and how they relate to Dragon Age in my posts above and also in my posts on page 4 in this thread: http://social.biowar.../9/index/260350

The two threads are actually about the same topic...roleplaying. It's just unfortunate that because of the Original Post, this particular thread got sidetracked, but even so there are a few posts of merit in here which provide useful feedback for Bioware.

I also understand that these kinds of topics require more thought and effort than the usual forum poster who comes here to have fun is willing to give.

Thanks  to those of you who took the time to read, and think.

#444
Darpaek

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Maybe if we fill the next 10 pages of this thread with racial slurs and stereotypical observations on what a world without blacks would be like the mods will make this thread go away.

#445
Periodiko

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purplesunset wrote...
Who do you mean by "these people" ?



#446
purplesunset

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^ --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring_%28logical_fallacy%29#Red_herring

#447
Few87

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Darpaek wrote...

Maybe if we fill the next 10 pages of this thread with racial slurs and stereotypical observations on what a world without blacks would be like the mods will make this thread go away.


Good plan, this sort of nonsense thread lowers the tone of the game.

#448
Livemmo

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bump because lol

#449
LdyShayna

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Livemmo wrote...

bump because lol


Do not bump old threads.  If you have something to add to a discussion, post it.  Otherwise, leave them alone.

#450
Livemmo

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LdyShayna wrote...

Livemmo wrote...

bump because lol


Do not bump old threads.  If you have something to add to a discussion, post it.  Otherwise, leave them alone.





ooooo i did not know this. why thank you so much for responding to my bump post! ill be sure not to bump post again in the future.