537 réponses à ce sujet

[purplesunset]

Obadiah wrote...

purplesunset wrote...
Sir, what you just did is a classic straw man arguement. You erected an argument that no one (not even the original poster) posited and then proceeded to destroy it.

Well said. I too played a black character, and was kind of curious about how he came to be. I would not have asked for the game to revolve around his ethnicity. I would have simply suggested, as the original poster did, some kind of palette swap (if not, then full character model swaps) based on skin tone.

Correct. That is exactly what the OP did.

Here's a quote from the OP himself:

Pseudo310 wrote..
But you guys get that I'm not complaining about the lack of black people in Ferelden, right? That's a non-issue.

Doesthis sound like soemone with a sense of entitlement demanding that Bioware tailor the game to black people for the sake of political quotas/correctness ?

Pseudo310 wrote...
I'm saying that it's silly to make a black character who has a white family. Especially since there's no other black people in Ferelden, he or she had to come from somewhere. So I'm giving Bioware some feedback on that. Having multiple character models for the family wouldn't be the hard I bet.

And this is where I disagreed with him. Aside from the fact that Ferelden is Caucasian-only by the developer's design, it would simply take too much time and resources to get them to make matching family models for each character that it is possible to create. The origin stories were set up in such a way that if you care about immersion, then it would be best to play a character that suits the pre-written origin story. If the origin is about Couslands, and you care about immersion, then make someone who looks like a Cousland.

The people who turned this thread into something about racism, political correctness, entitlement, quotas etc. simply did not bother to read, and instead opted to make up an imaginary argument and then dismantled
it. classic straw man fallacy.

Modifié par purplesunset, 23 janvier 2010 - 10:26 .

[Abriael_CG]

purplesunset wrote...

Name one specific  instance  in this thread where someone *demanded*  that Bioware tailor the game to their ethnicity?

I happened to have made a black character, i want them to make my parents black!
I'd say that's quite a demand.
On an extremely silly detail, I'd say.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 23 janvier 2010 - 10:37 .

[David Gaider]

Abriael_CG wrote...
I happened to have made a black character, i want them to make my parents black!
I'd say that's quite a demand.
On an extremely silly detail, I'd say.

I don't think it's a silly detail. Just because Ferelden is largely Anglo-Saxon in its flavor doesn't mean that people of different ethnicities don't or shouldn't exist in the world (which they do), nor is it fair to say that it should be irrelevant to a player that we've allowed to have that appearance. We didn't mean to specifically exclude it, and I think we'll keep it in mind for the future.

Modifié par David Gaider, 23 janvier 2010 - 10:54 .

[Garlandan]

I think this thread ended up this way because the terms black/white were used. which always degenerates to an argument on rasism. probably would be more productive to just say ”i wish my pc's parents looked more like my pc“ which i agree with. even though im white, make white characters. it would have been nice it people supposed to be related actually looked related.

[mslc123]

This is the samething as creating a 80 year old looking PC and the game treating you as the youngest of the cousland line even though you look 20 years older than your father and mother... I wish skin color and age came into effect, but I doubt developers will wish to update the game in such a manner.

[traversc]

There are a few black people in the game IIRC. The guy in the mage origin with the heavy english(?) accent, for example.



I'm kind of on the fence about this issue. On the one hand, it IS a fantasy setting, and so it wouldn't really hurt to include a few more minorities, for the sake of inclusion.



On the other hand, the different ethnicities in DA:O are massively separated geographically, which leads to speciation and genetic drift, which are actual phenomena. And so I think it does add to the immersion of the game that native fereldans all kind of look the same.

[RoninOmega]

Xeiru wrote...

elkston wrote...


See, this is what I mean.  Already the uber-defensiveness and claims of rampant white guilt. 

I see only suggestions.  No threats. No pledges of lawsuits. No vows to stop playing the game.  Only some comments from a certain perspective. 

But then somehow that becomes the regular old "minorities don't know their place and complain too much" to people like yourself.

defensiveness? white guilt?

And what precisely should I feel guilty for? Or be defensive about?

You see only comments from a certain perspective. A perspective I call stupid, which is why I'm making it my business to point out how stupid it is.

Nowhere did I say "No blacky, you can't have your game your way". I just said that it would require much more than a pallete change to make it make sense and that its far easier to either ignore it (since its such a minor part of the game) or to play from a different origin story (that would make sense) or even to just roll a white dude.

Now about complaining too much, yeah I do think minorities seem to whine about some stupid stuff. Especially blacks. You don't see asians in here complaining there are no asian palletes or facial features, or indians (either kind), or any other race. Why is it just blacks deserve special treatment? That sounds more racist to me then just leaving the story the way the developers want to tell it ( race being determined by location in the fictional world).

Wow, rub the stereotype in...

perhaps you should see the reason why im this character? 


Seriously though, the tools made for fallout are not as complex, so yes I do agree that they should've made your family look like you, i made a filipino guy, and guess what, i came from a white family, lol

although, it doesn't bother me much anyways, they die at the beginning, so I guess you never see them again.

[SleeplessInSigil]

Fallout 3 was great in that aspect in how your parents' face and your own childhood face was extrapolated from whatever you made your character look like. Uncanny. <3

[Jacody]

[quote]Pseudo310 wrote...

[quote]lawsie100 wrote...

Especially since there's no other black people in Ferelden, he or she had to come from somewhere. .[/quote]

Well there's Sten....

[GmanFresh]

this is qa fantasy game... they could have made changes

[MassEffect762]

Meh. As a brown-skinned American I could care less, it's just a game though I do understand the whole "immersion" thing.

[SinYang]

With this reasoning I demand..

Chinese.
Japanese.
Indian.
Mexican.
Spanish.
Irish.
Scottish.
Eastern europeans.
Portuguese.
Australians.
Couslands with full VA and tones. Be included.
Did i miss anyone?? oh yeah I want Dark elves too,  characters with one arm, characters with one leg, an Alien........whats with no aliens?

(Fact for irony, im not chinese despite my tag /or remotely related.)
This thread should be locked.

This post was asking why should bioware cater to one type of persons "immersion" when there are hundreds out there with no presence at all in Origins, or many games/film/tv at all for that matter. Not just seperate from color either.

If you think an English person is same as a Russian. I cant help you.

Modifié par SinYang, 24 janvier 2010 - 07:54 .

[brandonkelly]

i like to think that my negroid was shipped over from afrika and adopted beacause they wanted a strong, heroic, and superior son.

[hardvice]

I don't see what's so terrible about making the player's family look like the PC.



I started off with a black noble as well, and found the family contrast so distracting that I started over. I wasn't offended; I just thought it was kind of dumb that my parents looked nothing like my character.



As for the existence of a black noble family OMG TOTALLY RUINING THE AUTHENTICITY, I just don't see how it affects *you* if *my* Ferelden has a black noble family. I mean, the Rivaini are all described as "dark-skinned". It's not inconceivable that a ... uh ... family from Ferelden (what on earth is the demonym for people from Ferelden, anyway?) could have intermarried with a Rivaini family. If someone is so concerned with maintaining the carefully balanced Anglo-Saxon fidelity of Ferelden society, then simply don't play a black character. But jumping from there to chastising other players for wanting to play a black character with a black family makes it seem like you're needlessly minding somebody else's business. You play your game and I'll play mine.



I'd also like to point out, though this was not the OP's point *at all*, that if you're a white male heterosexual, you can't possibly know, and I can't possibly hope to tell you, how much it can mean to have a game that lets you play a character that is like you. Like it or not, white male heterosexual is the default (and frequently only) protagonist of most of the games out there. And there's nothing wrong with that, really -- I'm not asking to play a gay Nathan Drake, or a black Sam Fisher. But there is just something very welcoming about actually being acknowledged and included, considering how relatively rarely it happens. I can't speak for people of colour or women, but as a gay man, I will put up with some really incredibly awful drivel if it includes gay or lesbian characters, just to experience that momentary relief of feeling less than invisible or non-existent. This kind of inclusiveness is something BioWare has gone out of their way to embrace in the past--and their games are actually good as well, which is a rare gift indeed.



In the end, it's not a huge concern, given that you don't spend much time with your family in the game. It's not the end of the world. But it *is* an opportunity for BioWare to improve their (already much appreciated) efforts to include all sorts of different player's choices in the fabric of their story, and thus well worth bringing to their attention, which is exactly what the OP did.

[Damgud1]

On the contrary kazuka78 and Loc_N_lol, the Moors who were Africans invaded Western Europe around the 6th century, well before the 12th century and lived there for around 800 years. They brought the game chess with them. They had a very high impact on European culture, architecture, and society. William Shakespeare wrote a famous play called "Othello, the Moor of Venice", in 1603. The European country Gibraltar and the Rock of Gibraltar are named for the moor Tariq ibn-Ziyad, who took the land and built a castle there in 711 A.D. which is still there. So not only were there Black People in Europe at this time the were also nobles, generals, and rulers. Look it up if you don't beleive.

[Damgud1]

It is odd to me also. After having played Knight of The Old Republic years ago. Bioware had a diverse cast, as far as the humans went. I thought I was the only Brother in Ferelden...lol. But it's really is no big deal because in my opinion, this is the best RPG since KTOR1. And I have been playing RPG's since they were text based.

[GmanFresh]

also it isnt high tech stuff. just the origin. wasnt hard to match skin tone but they just didnt do it

[SinYang]

I read the original post, the request is stupid & unrealistic from a business & timescale view for any games company. Discussing colors and putting down white people for not understanding/agreeing with something is racist in itself. Perhaps you need to read what I wrote to see how silly it really is.

If Human noble origin was changed to fit your character, then we gotta change the chantry aswell. After all we need to include every major real life religion aswell. Once you start on this path, it  is neverending to fit each "token".

GTA San Andreas was told from a different persective.  Should I ask rockstar to rewrite giant chunks of that game to include a white family? Oh yes I brought that game and enjoyed it.

Modifié par SinYang, 24 janvier 2010 - 08:33 .

[hardvice]

Ethan009 wrote...
Frankly I find the thought that they allow you to change your skin color silly and that frankly each origin should have a set race.

Really, much as I like the available diversity of the character creator, some restrictions really would make more sense from a story perspective.  I mean, if the story can't expand to fit different races, ages, etc., why let the player make a character that doesn't really fit?

I'm not sure race is really one of the restrictions that needs to be made--palette-shifting your families, for those origins with family members (city elf, both dwarves, human nobles) would probably be sufficient to handle skin tones, and would probably be pretty easy--but age definitely is.  It's a bit silly to let you make an elderly-looking youngest Cousland or brand-spanking new mage apprentice.  And it might've been nice if the game disallowed me from putting a casteless brand on my dwarven noble, too--boy, did I feel dumb once I learned what that meant.

(Unrelated aside: What I find particularly enjoyable is making a hideously butt-ugly character and having NPCs tell me how beautiful I am.  Alistair apparently has a thing for ogrish-looking ladies. I guess growing up in the Chantry will do that to you.)

[Spuro]

Ethan009 wrote...
Oh yeah there's this hilarious vid on youtube with an fugly as heck City elf and Vaughn starts leering at her. :innocent:
and the groom calls her "radiant." 

Though agreed on the age restrictians It makes no sense that I can have a character that is technically older than anyone in the camp and yet be treated as though I'm the youngest. <_<

I believe you are referring to this. 

Modifié par Spuro, 24 janvier 2010 - 09:05 .