537 réponses à ce sujet

[Xeiru]

And once again why do blacks need the special treatment over say, asians? Or Indians? Or Latinos?



Oh thats right, because somewhere back in their family line one of their ancestors was sold to a white man, by another black man because he lost the tribal war.

[Malkut]

Yeah, I noticed the same thing.  I created a blond city elf once.  He looked like he was related to his wife, not his cousin.  Creepy.

Pseudo310 wrote...

Black Liam Neeson.

I think I love you.

[elkston]

Xeiru wrote...

And once again why do blacks need the special treatment over say, asians? Or Indians? Or Latinos?

Make it like Falout 3.  3 or 4 distinct parental/sibling "sets" depending on a certain racial factor.  No need for different voice sets -- just new models.  Just a modest concession. No need to change lore, plot, etc.  Let us make up our own justification for our existence.

Oh thats right, because somewhere back in their family line one of their ancestors was sold to a white man, by another black man because he lost the tribal war.

C''mon man, that's what I am talking about.  We're not going to get anywhere if you keep up with statements like that.  

To be honest, the scars of segregation are still healing in the USA.  I mean, my parents grew up having to use separate bathrooms, eat at separate resturants, etc.  And you think we can just forget all that in one snap?   It's going to take longer.

[iampotato]

Atleast they have a gay guy in the game ... WADE!

[CJohnJones]

cipher86 wrote...

Black people have no place in Ferelden, THAT'S why. It's ****ing Europe, basically. If there WERE black people, they'd be slaves, and that would be WAY worse for Bioware.

So STFU

There were actually occasionally black people in Europe in the middle ages and not all of them were slaves, though I guess about all of them were travelers. African features have been submerged in places like Sicily, less so in Spain where Middle Eastern and African blood are what give the people their distinctive appearance. Before the Moorish invasions they were mostly Celts with some others mixed in from the Roman conquest. It was sufficiently possible that by the time of the renaissance, Othello could plausibly be portrayed as an Italian general.

Black slavery is relatively modern invention. Before the discovery of the New World, most African slaves were in Africa, with a few in the Middle East.

Some black people overstate the black contribution to european history, but  why do white people often deny it entirely? Everywhere there is blood from the far corners of the Old World. A tribe in Africa turns out to have blood from a line of Hebrew priests. Hungarians have a strong Asian streak. Turks are partly related to the Irish (well, Western European Celts, anyway). Gypsies (I know, a non-pc term) turn out to be the Rom people from India. Historical research and the human genome project have turned people's ideas of who is who on their heads.

So, can we give the idea that there could never be black people in a Eurocentric fantasy world a rest?

[pewbz]

I'M A DUDE PLAYING A DUDE DISGUISED AS ANOTHER DUDE

Modifié par pewbz, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:29 .

[CorwynNiTessine]

MrGOH wrote...

but the CC's apparent inability to make any facial structures not found in medieval Europe to be unnecessarily limiting, given that modmakers may wish to place their mods in different settings.

Odd... I noticed the opposite.

I thought it was interesting that the developers added asian facial features for some of the characters, like Arlessa Isolde.  Go to the Black Pearl and get a woman... you can clearly see the differences between the various humans.

[Malkut]

This reminds me of a problem I encountered in NWN2.



I decided to create a vastly different character than was my usual choice (controller white male wizard), so I created a black female who summoned with the brand new Spirit Shaman class. The class had a special ability that turned them into a misty white ghostly form, and after the turned back . . . she stayed white. It was like an automatic white-people generator.



That was a fun bug report to fill out. They fixed it in the next patch.

[kingthrall]

][/url]

[Nemesis7884]

i thought the whole time wade and his "companion" were a caricature of dolce & gabbana, no?

[TheRealBrave]

This topic has so much fail. Perhaps black skinned humans don't fit into the lore behind characters in Fereldan. As previously mentioned, it's rather clear that Fereldan is based off of medieval Europe - where there weren't really that many Black People. At least free Black people, let alone Nobles. How would Bioware go about explaining the origins of a Black Noble family in Fereldan? They'd simply have to change to much, Fereldans natural human inhabitants are mainly White from everything I understand.



Bioware wasn't trying to "enrage" or goad black people. Simply absurd.

[Xeiru]

elkston wrote...

Make it like Falout 3.  3 or 4 distinct parental/sibling "sets" depending on a certain racial factor.  No need for different voice sets -- just new models.  Just a modest concession. No need to change lore, plot, etc.  Let us make up our own justification for our existence.

C''mon man, that's what I am talking about.  We're not going to get anywhere if you keep up with statements like that.  

To be honest, the scars of segregation are still healing in the USA.  I mean, my parents grew up having to use separate bathrooms, eat at separate resturants, etc.  And you think we can just forget all that in one snap?   It's going to take longer.

For the last time I don't care if they fix it or not. Let them fix it. I'm just here pointing out the whole thing is stupid.

As for the "my parents were segregated" blah blah blah. So? Were you? Then what precisely is your problem here? No one is doing anything even remotely comparable to that by insisting that it is not the responsibility of the developer to develop a different game for every race, nationality and creed, and it is especially self-centered and racist of people of african decent to insist the game be changed for them. Your parents had to endure real racism. If I were them I think i'd find modern day african american whiney BS about racism offensive by comparison. For you to whine about a percieved slight because the entire game doesn't change its basis to suit your skin color and try to compare that to segregation is so self centered I can't even really comprehend it.

The game takes place in a medieval european based fantasy world. A world in which black people apparently are confined to a separate part of the world space and crossovers are rare (Sten). Artificially inserting a random black noble family in the middle of a 99%+ white country without any explanation is even more idiotic than the "black child of white parents" problem you already face (a problem, I will note again that is entirely of your own creation).

Deal.

[Malkut]

CJohnJones wrote...

So, can we give the idea that there could never be black people in a Eurocentric fantasy world a rest?

This conversation would not be happening if the OP was Asian and wanted that to be represented in the game.

Xeiru wrote...

Artificially inserting a random black noble family in the middle of a 99%+ white country without any explanation is even more idiotic than the "black child of white parents" problem you already face (a problem, I will note again that is entirely of your own creation).

Deal.

Yeah, stop being uppity and know your place.

[spokenwordd]

Xeiru wrote...

Yeah there were no black slaves in europe. But black nobles? Hell yeah!

Hello!  Everyone!  The whole point here is that 12th century Europe has NOTHING to do with THIS game.  This game is not based on historic Europe, it takes place in another world in dimension "I don't really exist". 

The makers of the game are not bound by actually European history in the lore development, has anyone read the lore? 100% of the lore is NOT based on any facts!  One of the races in the game is human, there are many ethnicities of human beings but only one race.   Out of the human race there are caucasians, blacks, asians etc etc.  Therefore, ANY etnicity of human being can be used in this game's lore.  All the humans in the game are human beings.  You should be able to roll any color human you want if you are playing a human being AND if you roll a black human then your parents ought to be black or there is something reaaally wrong with that image.

This is an issue of continuity not history... 

[TheRealBrave]

Xeiru wrote...

elkston wrote...

Make it like Falout 3.  3 or 4 distinct parental/sibling "sets" depending on a certain racial factor.  No need for different voice sets -- just new models.  Just a modest concession. No need to change lore, plot, etc.  Let us make up our own justification for our existence.

C''mon man, that's what I am talking about.  We're not going to get anywhere if you keep up with statements like that.  

To be honest, the scars of segregation are still healing in the USA.  I mean, my parents grew up having to use separate bathrooms, eat at separate resturants, etc.  And you think we can just forget all that in one snap?   It's going to take longer.

For the last time I don't care if they fix it or not. Let them fix it. I'm just here pointing out the whole thing is stupid.

As for the "my parents were segregated" blah blah blah. So? Were you? Then what precisely is your problem here? No one is doing anything even remotely comparable to that by insisting that it is not the responsibility of the developer to develop a different game for every race, nationality and creed, and it is especially self-centered and racist of people of african decent to insist the game be changed for them. Your parents had to endure real racism. If I were them I think i'd find modern day african american whiney BS about racism offensive by comparison. For you to whine about a percieved slight because the entire game doesn't change its basis to suit your skin color and try to compare that to segregation is so self centered I can't even really comprehend it.

The game takes place in a medieval european based fantasy world. A world in which black people apparently are confined to a separate part of the world space and crossovers are rare (Sten). Artificially inserting a random black noble family in the middle of a 99%+ white country without any explanation is even more idiotic than the "black child of white parents" problem you already face (a problem, I will note again that is entirely of your own creation).

Deal.

This. ^

[Jiggasaurus]

CJohnJones wrote...

cipher86 wrote...

Black people have no place in Ferelden, THAT'S why. It's ****ing Europe, basically. If there WERE black people, they'd be slaves, and that would be WAY worse for Bioware.

So STFU

There were actually occasionally black people in Europe in the middle ages and not all of them were slaves, though I guess about all of them were travelers. African features have been submerged in places like Sicily, less so in Spain where Middle Eastern and African blood are what give the people their distinctive appearance. Before the Moorish invasions they were mostly Celts with some others mixed in from the Roman conquest. It was sufficiently possible that by the time of the renaissance, Othello could plausibly be portrayed as an Italian general.

Black slavery is relatively modern invention. Before the discovery of the New World, most African slaves were in Africa, with a few in the Middle East.

Some black people overstate the black contribution to european history, but  why do white people often deny it entirely? Everywhere there is blood from the far corners of the Old World. A tribe in Africa turns out to have blood from a line of Hebrew priests. Hungarians have a strong Asian streak. Turks are partly related to the Irish (well, Western European Celts, anyway). Gypsies (I know, a non-pc term) turn out to be the Rom people from India. Historical research and the human genome project have turned people's ideas of who is who on their heads.

So, can we give the idea that there could never be black people in a Eurocentric fantasy world a rest?

Good post although it will unfortunatly go over the majority here who would rather persue a flame war, the shipping traderoutes of medieval Europe (and even before) from Britain (Devon/Cornwall) through the Southern Spansh  & Northern Morrocon entry to the Mediterranean sea through to Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Italy & Greece were vast. It would be foolish to believe the ethnic divide was so aparent as the Racist views of a die gone era would have us believe.

Modifié par Jiggasaurus, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:47 .

[salbine]

Xeiru wrote...
For the last time I don't care if they fix it or not. Let them fix it. I'm just here pointing out the whole thing is stupid.

It's also stupid if you create an old character. Most of the origin stories don't make sense, for one thing. I'm not sure why the game lets you create characters that immediately turn the story into a comedy.

[GStruwe]

There are black people in Thedas. Qunari. You don't play where they come from, hence why there's a lack of it.



When you're fighting Kaden-Fe mercenaries, you got yourself alot of black guys beating on the (apparently) white people. Should we call that racism too? No. It's a game. If it doesn't appeal to you that you can't have black parents, or at least have some sort of imagination.. Maybe you're simply just too sensitive then? No offense, of course. I'm just looking from my perspective of this.

[Xeiru]

Actually, i'd be telling the asian the same thing i'm telling the black guy.

Honestly, its pretty funny that all of a sudden after its pointed out that including blacks without including the other races would be racist, that now the "change it so I can be black" side pulls out the race card and accuses the other side of racism and uses the same asians they were happy to leave out as a shield.

Funny stuff.

Modifié par Xeiru, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:48 .

[TheRealBrave]

spokenwordd wrote...

Xeiru wrote...

Yeah there were no black slaves in europe. But black nobles? Hell yeah!

Hello!  Everyone!  The whole point here is that 12th century Europe has NOTHING to do with THIS game.  This game is not based on historic Europe, it takes place in another world in dimension "I don't really exist". 

The makers of the game are not bound by actually European history in the lore development, has anyone read the lore? 100% of the lore is NOT based on any facts!  One of the races in the game is human, there are many ethnicities of human beings but only one race.   Out of the human race there are caucasians, blacks, asians etc etc.  Therefore, ANY etnicity of human being can be used in this game's lore.  All the humans in the game are human beings.  You should be able to roll any color human you want if you are playing a human being AND if you roll a black human then your parents ought to be black or there is something reaaally wrong with that image.

This is an issue of continuity not history... 

While what you say is somewhat true, there are hardly any black humans in this game. I think I only saw one the whole time, and he was an employee of that Mage Guild and he had a foreign accent. That would leave me to believe that Black Humans aren't natural inhabitants of Fereldan, but come from a distant land/continent. (Sort of like Europe/Africa - hence the comparisons)

[Xeiru]

Jiggasaurus wrote...

CJohnJones wrote...

cipher86 wrote...

Black people have no place in Ferelden, THAT'S why. It's ****ing Europe, basically. If there WERE black people, they'd be slaves, and that would be WAY worse for Bioware.

So STFU

There were actually occasionally black people in Europe in the middle ages and not all of them were slaves, though I guess about all of them were travelers. African features have been submerged in places like Sicily, less so in Spain where Middle Eastern and African blood are what give the people their distinctive appearance. Before the Moorish invasions they were mostly Celts with some others mixed in from the Roman conquest. It was sufficiently possible that by the time of the renaissance, Othello could plausibly be portrayed as an Italian general.

Black slavery is relatively modern invention. Before the discovery of the New World, most African slaves were in Africa, with a few in the Middle East.

Some black people overstate the black contribution to european history, but  why do white people often deny it entirely? Everywhere there is blood from the far corners of the Old World. A tribe in Africa turns out to have blood from a line of Hebrew priests. Hungarians have a strong Asian streak. Turks are partly related to the Irish (well, Western European Celts, anyway). Gypsies (I know, a non-pc term) turn out to be the Rom people from India. Historical research and the human genome project have turned people's ideas of who is who on their heads.

So, can we give the idea that there could never be black people in a Eurocentric fantasy world a rest?

Good post although it will unfortunatly go over the majority here who would rather persue a flame war, the shipping traderoutes of medieval Europe from Britain (Devon/Cornwall) through the Southern Spansh  & Northern Morrocon entry to the Mediterranean sea through to Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Italy & Greece were vast. It would be foolish to believe the ethnic divide was so aparent as the Racist views of a die gone era would have us believe.

You want it addressed? Here I'll address it.

This isn't medieval europe. That whole argument is null and void. This is ferelden. In Ferelden the country, there are no black people. Therefore a random single family of black nobles doesn't make sense. Now if we were playing in the Qunari (sp?) lands, then it wouldn't make sense for there to be a random WHITE noble family. Whats funny is if that was the case, complaining would be considered both humerous AND racist. Get over yourselves please.

[originalSabZero]

Pseudo310 wrote...

originalSabZero wrote...

Well, Fallout 3 does change Dads facial features to be more close to the ones you chose for your character. He does not change ethnicity however. It's still a neat trick and obviously technically possible.

He changes ethnicity. Go make a black character and test it. He was black when I played through it. Black Liam Neeson.

Oh snap. Haha, I never made a black or Asian character, so I didn't know. Love Liam in that game though. 

This thread is getting a bit out of hand, whether it's racist or not, or realistic (really?).

I think it's an oversight, and parents could share some features at least with their biological children. It's not a game breaking thing, but rather, it would be nice to have.

[elkston]

As for the "my parents were segregated" blah blah blah. So? Were you? Then what precisely is your problem here?

My point is that the children of people  who made and accepted these laws are still alive today.  Some of the prejudices were taught and carry on.  They don't just fade away.  I am trying to explain to you WHY this entire topic brings out the claws sometimes.  Some people feel like we are trying to change their entire society by asking for a simple gesture.

No one is doing anything even remotely comparable to that by insisting that it is not the responsibility of the developer to develop a different game for every race, nationality and creed,

Develop a different game?

My words:

Just a modest concession. No need to change lore, plot, etc.  Let us make up our own justification for our existence.

[Xeiru]

salbine wrote...

Xeiru wrote...
For the last time I don't care if they fix it or not. Let them fix it. I'm just here pointing out the whole thing is stupid.

It's also stupid if you create an old character. Most of the origin stories don't make sense, for one thing. I'm not sure why the game lets you create characters that immediately turn the story into a comedy.

This game is obviously predjudiced against old people. Clearly we should now rewrite the game to include old people in every origin story. (/sarcasm)

(Not poking at your Salbine, just using your point in context of this argument).

[Malkut]

Xeiru wrote...

Actually, i'd be telling the asian the same thing i'm telling the black guy.

No, you wouldn't.  I had the same problem with a blond city elf, and you didn't yell at me.

tl:dr : Man points out immersion breaking flaw in game that effects lots of people, gets yelled at for being black.