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[Camenae]

The idea came from a post from another thread, but I thought it was really interesting and wanted to hear ideas.  Also I wanted a break from the super-serious rigorous in-depth analysis of existing lore and thought we could delve into some serious speculation fun:

The Angry One wrote...

I suddenly find myself wondering what it would've been like if instead of this idol business we had a hardline Meredith who in the name of her duties found herself having to protect the mages from a huge reprisal thanks to the bombing (let's say Sebastian isn't just making stupid idle threats and an army from Starkhaven comes to take care of the problem or something).

And this is also assuming that Meredith didn't call for the Right of Annulment herself.

Okay here's what I think:

One of the things that define Meredith is that she sincerely believes in doing her job.  Part of her job is to protect mages who have not broken Chantry law.  So if she wasn't just paying lip service to that part of her job, I expect she wouldn't take kindly to an outside force coming in and trying to tell her how to do her job, and she would fight Sebastian and his army.

The Gallows would have been a perfect defensive spot.  I would have loved to see what it would be like to REALLY work with Meredith towards something.  I think that would have given her character a lot more depth than "idol made me crazy booya!" 

Modifié par Camenae, 08 avril 2011 - 04:00 .

[The Angry One]

Giving it some thought it could've lead to some great moments with her and Orsino (also forgetting the whole Harvester rubbish).
Meredith wanting to protect and contain the mages at the same time, and Orsino arguing for the mages to be cut loose to flee or fight with their full power.

[Camenae]

thurmanator692 wrote...

wasn't that kind of the situation between Gregoir and Irving? just a lot less extreme

It's similar.  But with Greagoir and Irving it was still sort of an internal threat.  I'm curious if Meredith and Orsino can band together even temporarily if threatened from the outside. 

[The Angry One]

thurmanator692 wrote...

wasn't that kind of the situation between Gregoir and Irving? just a lot less extreme

Not really. Irving and Greagoir disagreed on many things but were ultimately friends and cooperated most of the time.

In this situation, Meredith and Orsino are still heavy rivals and Meredith is still a hardliner who's treated mages with an iron fist, but because she truly believes in her duties and those include protecting mages from harm.
Orsino on the other hand wouldn't want to leave that protection just to the Templars while they cower in their cells, and still resents Meredith overall.

[Plaintiff]

I'm worried it would lead to Meredith and Orsino becoming BFFs. They'd team up to fight the incursion and then in the aftermath, Hawke would say "Now what have we learned?" and Meredith would reply "Well, this experience taught me that mages can be trusted and it's wrong to punish a group for the actions of an individual!". Orsino would then say "And I learned that the Templars are necessity. Their rules may be harsh but they exist to protect us from ourselves, as well as the population at large!"

Then make-up hugs and tears all around. Play the 'Happy Days' theme music and roll credits.

It would be beautiful.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Angry One wrote...

Giving it some thought it could've lead to some great moments with her and Orsino (also forgetting the whole Harvester rubbish).

I wonder what kind...

Anyways, it could have been interesting (and tragic) if Meredith was trying to defend Orsino and mages, but Cullen (who should have been very hardcore) decides to side with the people against the mages. Simultaneously, some mages want to fight, but Orsino is trying to contain them. Both Meredith and Orsino fail and  all out war breaks out between mages and Templars / Kirkwall, which becomes the catalyst needed.

And before they die, Meredith and Orsino can do this.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 avril 2011 - 03:44 .

[The Angry One]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I wonder what kind...

The smexy kind of course.

Yes but anyway.. it would probably end in tragedy. Anything to kick off this war other than MUAHAHA EVERYBODY IS CRAZY STABKILL.
No there'd be no happy fluffy ending for Meredith and Orsino, at least not in my thoughts. They'd be unwilling allies at best, but you can get a ton of drama out of that.

[Camenae]

The Angry One wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I wonder what kind...

The smexy kind of course.

Yes but anyway.. it would probably end in tragedy. Anything to kick off this war other than MUAHAHA EVERYBODY IS CRAZY STABKILL.
No there'd be no happy fluffy ending for Meredith and Orsino, at least not in my thoughts. They'd be unwilling allies at best, but you can get a ton of drama out of that.

Knight that picture was EPIC!  It appeals deeply to my inner drama queen.

And I always did think there was some serious sexual tension going on between Meredith and Orsino.  Wishful thinking, at least.

[KnightofPhoenix]

That pic was tongue in cheek...

But the rest of my speculation is serious. And Hawke would have been given three choices, either side with Meredith and Orsino, or side with angry Templars led by Cullen, or with angry mages led by someone more reasonable than Grace.

[Icy Magebane]

Camenae wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

wasn't that kind of the situation between Gregoir and Irving? just a lot less extreme

It's similar.  But with Greagoir and Irving it was still sort of an internal threat.  I'm curious if Meredith and Orsino can band together even temporarily if threatened from the outside. 

They did it vs. the Qunari.  Sort of...  but even then, she at least had possession of the Idol, so take that for what it's worth.  If the idol was out of the picture entirely, I think they'd be willing to work together with little argument.  I mean, neither of them wins if the city is sacked, right?

[The Angry One]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

That pic was tongue in cheek...

But the rest of my speculation is serious. And Hawke would have been given three choices, either side with Meredith and Orsino, or side with angry Templars led by Cullen, or with angry mages led by someone more reasonable than Grace.

Or perhaps an army marching upon the mages. Hell, it could be extended to the 10 year mark and have it be the Exalted March the Divine was considering.
Cullen in the space of 3 years becomes increasingly anxious about Meredith's insistence on keeping the mages free from a revenge attack at the expense of the entire city and he eventually turns against her.

Modifié par The Angry One, 08 avril 2011 - 03:55 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

All this awesome speculation is making me hate DA2's ending more, which I didn't think was possible.

[Camenae]

thurmanator692 wrote...

while for the templars......huh, I want to say Fenris, but I don't see him taking an ALL MAGES MUST DIE!! stance

You don't?

 

[The Angry One]

If Fenris isn't a full friend/rival I'd say he'd side with Cullen on the basis that he's not going to potentially sacrifice a city to defend a bunch of mages.
Similar to how it is in game.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sebastian would side with Cullen and if we side against him, we can see him so reasonably declaring his intent to raze Kirkwall to the ground. Aveline would initially want to side with Cullen (or with Meredith and Orsino?), but depends on her relationship with the player. Merrill would probably want to side with extremist mages. Anders with extremists mages. Varric and Isabela don't care.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 avril 2011 - 04:12 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Well he does say he wants to leave nothing in Kirkwall for the mages to rule over...

[The Angry One]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

2. In order for her to defend the Mages, she needs to be persuaded/influenced by Hawkes Irresistible Charisma [TM]. Meredith became a Templar because of an unfortunate incident with her sister, who was a Mage, when she was little. She needs to be convinced that Mages like her sister are the victims, not the perpetrators. There is some great potential for dialogue here.

It might be good, but I think it'd be a greater reflection of her character if this was Meredith's decision alone.
This is her duty, this is her city and these are her mages. She must protect them from themselves, and from anyone else, the Maker wills it and nobody's going to tell her otherwise.
Hawke's input is in helping Meredith to salvage the situation, helping Cullen, making it worse with the extremists or even siding with the Divine's forces.

3. Anders would have to die. Meredith was actually a good friend of the Grand Cleric. Meredith is also a champion of order and law, and her response in game was partly due to her hatred of terrorism and chaos.

This option would be removed in this, at the time he does it anyway.
Anders escapes and hooks up with the extremist mages, his fate decided later on.

Modifié par The Angry One, 08 avril 2011 - 04:17 .

[sphinxess]

The Angry One wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

That pic was tongue in cheek...

But the rest of my speculation is serious. And Hawke would have been given three choices, either side with Meredith and Orsino, or side with angry Templars led by Cullen, or with angry mages led by someone more reasonable than Grace.

Or perhaps an army marching upon the mages. Hell, it could be extended to the 10 year mark and have it be the Exalted March the Divine was considering.
Cullen in the space of 3 years becomes increasingly anxious about Meredith's insistence on keeping the mages free from a revenge attack at the expense of the entire city and he eventually turns against her.

Actually you have a prince of a city state making his own Exalted March on another city state over the bombing of the chantry.  The poor Divine is going to have a headache.