493 réponses à ce sujet

[Antivenger]

Thrombin wrote...

Antivenger wrote...
Can someone address this for me.
1) How is she racist?
2) How does aliens existing mean there is no god?

I'm not going to make an argument. Just... how did you come up with those "revelations"?

A lot of her dialogue reveals a deep-seated distrust of aliens in general. Hence the racist assertion.

I think the religion thing was a suggestion that, if you believe that G-d created everything then G-d must have created aliens so, therefore, if you're religious you shouldn't hate aliens.

While, objectively, that would seem true, it doesn't follow that religious people would all think that way. There are plenty of religious people who have no love for other humans (never mind aliens) despite the fact that their religion tells them they should have.

Apart from anything else there's the idea that G-d created man in his own image. A literal interpretation would suggest that, in that case, aliens, since they are not in man's image must not be children of G-d and, therefore, are little more than soul-less monsters.

I am, of course, not ascribing to such a belief myself but I don't think it's right to assume that the idea of xenophobia and religion are mutually exclusive.

I do have a distinct recollection that there was some indication that Ashley had become more accepting of aliens during her time with Shepard. I can't remember exactly what it was (some news report in ME2 about her death on Virmire or something, I think, but I remember it made me soften a bit towards her).

Regards

Julian

But then you would be assuming that religion = abrahamic. Taken directly from the blog linked by BornFree87, "upon death we go out - BANG! - just like a candle..." This is what compells me to believe in a higher power myself, as I can't bring myself to belief that our lives end here after such a short time. I think Mording says that too. But they are my own, personal beliefs. I don't follow any specific religion, and it's not stated that Ash does either, or any other humans in ME. My beliefs have been called out as "Hipster Bull" once, whatever that means. But it's what I believe in, can't help it.

"A lot of her dialogue reveals a deep-seated distrust of aliens in general. Hence the racist assertion."
Where? All I find is her distrust of non-Alliance personnel aboard the prototype stealth frigate, which can bypass enemy trackers and the first of it's kind in the known galaxy, the Normandy. A lot of people seem to find her "racism" or cynicism her flaw, but I view her almost obsessive drive to prove herself worthy of the Alliance to be that.

Modifié par Antivenger, 26 avril 2011 - 12:29 .

[Thrombin]

Antivenger wrote...
But then you would be assuming that religion = abrahamic. Taken directly from the blog linked by BornFree87, "upon death we go out - BANG! - just like a candle..." This is what compells me to believe in a higher power myself, as I can't bring myself to belief that our lives end here after such a short time. I think Mording says that too. But they are my own, personal beliefs. I don't follow any specific religion, and it's not stated that Ash does either, or any other humans in ME. My beliefs have been called out as "Hipster Bull" once, whatever that means. But it's what I believe in, can't help it.

"A lot of her dialogue reveals a deep-seated distrust of aliens in general. Hence the racist assertion."
Where? All I find is her distrust of non-Alliance personnel aboard the prototype stealth frigate, which can bypass enemy trackers and the first of it's kind in the known galaxy, the Normandy. A lot of people seem to find her "racism" or cynicism her flaw, but I view her almost obsessive drive to prove herself worthy of the Alliance to be that.

I'm just explaining where the poster was coming from in suggesting that, being religious, Ash shouldn't be anti-aliens the way she is. My point is that this doesn't necessarily follow. It is perfectly possible for a religious person to be bigoted. I gave an example which applies to the Judeo-Christian religion but it was only an example to show the possibility. It's irrelevant what religion Ashley actually is.

It's been some considerable time since I last played ME1 so I can't give you specific quotes but I distinctly remember getting the impression that she was intolerant of the other races and her general attitude in this regard led me to think that she was border-line racist and put me off having anything to do with romancing her for my default Shepard. I went for Liara instead.  I've only just come to these forums and now I hear that Ash being racist is a generally held view. Presumably this didn't all come out of thin air. Maybe what she says is open to interpretation but my interpretation at the time was that some of her comments were somewhat racist.

Regards

Julian

Modifié par Thrombin, 26 avril 2011 - 03:14 .

[Shibby Razel]

Anyone have any news if Tali is going to be back as a companion? I can't have my Tali for only 2/3rd of the adventure

[ObserverStatus]

Garrus and Liara?  Those are my 4th and 5th favorite characters!

Now I just need Wrex, Mordin and Legion...

[CommanderAdriel]

Win!No multiplayer!Garrus and Liara as squadmates!Go Bioware

[Mr0TYuH]

I just listened to the podcast on the Game Informer website. For the most part, it did not reveal anything new. There were a couple of things. They said that Casey Hudson commented that it's a safe bet that your squadmates will make an appearance of some sort in ME3. So, assuming they lived, everyone will at least get a cameo. The more interesting thing is that, at the start of ME3, the Alliance is in the process of studying the Normandy, and it is in a partially disassembled state. Many of her systems are not operational. So, it is possible part of the early game will be getting everything back on line. This could also be a way for them to include some side quests.

[a42]

I have just listened to that too and yes there could be several side quests involving getting the Normandy back online (but I don't think you will have too much time when The Reapers are invading Earth! haha) This could also be why TIM is annoyed (well it doesn't help that I Annihilated his precious CB!) because if The Alliance are investigating the Normandy then they will likely find some of his/Cerberus' secrets and also I don't think he will take to kindly to Miranda and Jacob quitting the organisation (if they survived) with you as they might give some intelligence away and maybe the crew will also give away stuff after all you have done for them but the biggest reason to do with The Normandy is EDI. Anyway back to the squad thing even if I hadn't heard GI say that Hudson said that if someone survived in the previous games then they would make an appearace in ME3 I think it is clear that it would defy all logic to think that anyone who has gone through the journey with Shepard especially members of the suicide mission could ever leave and go back to a normal live after the experience and the knowledge that The Reapers are coming! So they would realise that the best chance of The Universe surviving (or in some cases, the more self-centred characters would realise that it is their best chance of surviving if they stick with Shepard. Also it is very early so like people have said before they will most likely reveal more characters later but they will probably save some for us to find out when the game is released

[redneckdevil]

cant wait woot! just havent heard an actual release date yet but still got it reserved. sooo many questions i want answered like the cerebrus peps after u, i mean if it was for revenge for pissing them off at the end of ME2<if u did> it would seem that they would follow thur with that AFTER the reavers was dealt with. i mean they brought u back to life, something they didnt ever do before bc shepards the man and the only one who could complete the job, and i would think a fleet of reavers would be a touch more diffucult than tracking and taking care of the collectors idk. and what the hell is up with the illusives man eyes?

[100k]

Antivenger wrote...
Can someone address this for me.
1) How is she racist?
2) How does aliens existing mean there is no god?

I'm not going to make an argument. Just... how did you come up with those "revelations"?

She claims that she is not racist. However, she one of the only human characters in the game whose mistrust of aliens she openly voices repeated times. Unlike Pressley, she doesn't change either. By the end of ME1, Pressley liked the aliens onboard. Hell, he started off hating Tali, but got to know her, and really enjoyed her presence. By ME2 (and likely 3) Ash's "consideration" to what Shepard says about working together with aliens is gone. She just doesn't trust them.

[TuRiAn_AllY]

Volus squadmate is coming...
and wrex is coming back too...
and thane, and mordin, and grunt
because if they dont im going to send the coordinates of bioware headquarters to the reapers...
BUT AYAYYAYA GARRUS! I LOVE THAT GUY!

[jkflipflopDAO]

I think this "James Sanders" is a red herring. Kahlee doesn't have any other family than her dad and he's dead, right? No, I think we're actually getting Gillian seeing as she's the star of the next book.

[rekn2]

where did people see ash with her hair down?

[Someone With Mass]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

I think this "James Sanders" is a red herring. Kahlee doesn't have any other family than her dad and he's dead, right? No, I think we're actually getting Gillian seeing as she's the star of the next book.

Dude. She's 16.

[rekn2]

rekn2 wrote...

where did people see ash with her hair down?

nm i found it

[KenKenpachi]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

I think this "James Sanders" is a red herring. Kahlee doesn't have any other family than her dad and he's dead, right? No, I think we're actually getting Gillian seeing as she's the star of the next book.

LIES AND SLANDER

Behold

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 04 mai 2011 - 08:40 .

[rYAnxNTK]

Ashley/Kaidan should be playable throughout the entire game not just "to some extent"

[TheRevanchist]

rYAnxNTK wrote...

Ashley/Kaidan should be playable throughout the entire game not just "to some extent"

Indeed...I also think we should be able to patch up the relationship (if you have one) and go threw the rest of the game catching up on sexy time in between mission like in DAO lol.

[PrinceLionheart]

100k wrote...

Antivenger wrote...
Can someone address this for me.
1) How is she racist?
2) How does aliens existing mean there is no god?

I'm not going to make an argument. Just... how did you come up with those "revelations"?

She claims that she is not racist. However, she one of the only human characters in the game whose mistrust of aliens she openly voices repeated times. Unlike Pressley, she doesn't change either. By the end of ME1, Pressley liked the aliens onboard. Hell, he started off hating Tali, but got to know her, and really enjoyed her presence. By ME2 (and likely 3) Ash's "consideration" to what Shepard says about working together with aliens is gone. She just doesn't trust them.

But that isnt racism.

[alperez]

100k wrote...


She claims that she is not racist. However, she one of the only human characters in the game whose mistrust of aliens she openly voices repeated times. Unlike Pressley, she doesn't change either. By the end of ME1, Pressley liked the aliens onboard. Hell, he started off hating Tali, but got to know her, and really enjoyed her presence. By ME2 (and likely 3) Ash's "consideration" to what Shepard says about working together with aliens is gone. She just doesn't trust them.

Actually this isn't quite accurate, you can paragon her into accepting aliens and if you go this way by the end of me1 it does seem like she is at least questioning her beliefs or at most realising she was wrong.

Her mistrust considering her backround and family backround makes complete sense more so than any other character she has a genuine reason to mistrust aliens considering what she believes was the role they played in her grandfathers fall from grace.

Pressley's dislike of aliens is actually much more racist than Ash's ever is and yet no one ever really brings that up and although he does in the end accept and realise that its wrong it takes Shepard to allow him to reach this view.

With Ash once you know her entire backstory and once you paragon her you see subtle changes in how she reacts to aliens and it allows for the idea that by the end of the series she will actually be one of the most pro alien humans there is.

To me it almost seems like they intended or perhaps still intend a Gimli moment with her, where in a final battle she will be there beside Garrus and say something like i never though i'd die fighting alongside a Turian, only for Garrus to do the whole Legolas, what about a friend line.

[TheRevanchist]

alperez wrote...

100k wrote...


She claims that she is not racist. However, she one of the only human characters in the game whose mistrust of aliens she openly voices repeated times. Unlike Pressley, she doesn't change either. By the end of ME1, Pressley liked the aliens onboard. Hell, he started off hating Tali, but got to know her, and really enjoyed her presence. By ME2 (and likely 3) Ash's "consideration" to what Shepard says about working together with aliens is gone. She just doesn't trust them.

Actually this isn't quite accurate, you can paragon her into accepting aliens and if you go this way by the end of me1 it does seem like she is at least questioning her beliefs or at most realising she was wrong.

Her mistrust considering her backround and family backround makes complete sense more so than any other character she has a genuine reason to mistrust aliens considering what she believes was the role they played in her grandfathers fall from grace.

Pressley's dislike of aliens is actually much more racist than Ash's ever is and yet no one ever really brings that up and although he does in the end accept and realise that its wrong it takes Shepard to allow him to reach this view.

With Ash once you know her entire backstory and once you paragon her you see subtle changes in how she reacts to aliens and it allows for the idea that by the end of the series she will actually be one of the most pro alien humans there is.

To me it almost seems like they intended or perhaps still intend a Gimli moment with her, where in a final battle she will be there beside Garrus and say something like i never though i'd die fighting alongside a Turian, only for Garrus to do the whole Legolas, what about a friend line.

 That would be epic...and support such a scene...

[1Minsc1]

Now, that would be real good!
But i bet, at least 80% of the actual Ash-haters would cry: that's a fake by BW! So she have one turrian friend but still hate all other. [where can i get a "slap myself on the forehaed smiley"? i've seen them here...?]

[alperez]

1Minsc1 wrote...

Now, that would be real good!
But i bet, at least 80% of the actual Ash-haters would cry: that's a fake by BW! So she have one turrian friend but still hate all other. [where can i get a "slap myself on the forehaed smiley"? i've seen them here...?]

True i've seen them her too lol.

The thing is that most of them hate Ash because in their words she's a bigoted racist but have no problem whatsoever cosying up to cerberus and romancing Miranda, which to me makes no sense whatsoever.

BTW i never meant for it to come across as Ash saying the line meaning she would have one Turian friend, the Gimli line isn't supposed to represent that but rather how much the character has changed. By interacting with Aliens and seeing Garrus, Tali, Wrex, Liara etc in action and by actually getting to know them the character would understandbly change which is basically the point that i think bioware would aim for with Ash's character.

Aliens are humanised and humans are alienised if you will.

[TheRevanchist]

alperez wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

Now, that would be real good!
But i bet, at least 80% of the actual Ash-haters would cry: that's a fake by BW! So she have one turrian friend but still hate all other. [where can i get a "slap myself on the forehaed smiley"? i've seen them here...?]

True i've seen them her too lol.

The thing is that most of them hate Ash because in their words she's a bigoted racist but have no problem whatsoever cosying up to cerberus and romancing Miranda, which to me makes no sense whatsoever.

BTW i never meant for it to come across as Ash saying the line meaning she would have one Turian friend, the Gimli line isn't supposed to represent that but rather how much the character has changed. By interacting with Aliens and seeing Garrus, Tali, Wrex, Liara etc in action and by actually getting to know them the character would understandbly change which is basically the point that i think bioware would aim for with Ash's character.

Aliens are humanised and humans are alienised if you will.

Exactly...the difference between Cerberus and Ashely is 1...Cerberus IS actually raceist...and 2...Ashely dont lie to herself about her viewpoint.

And yes...it shows how Gimli has changed as a character...because he thought Galadrial was the most beautiful creature he ever saw and swore he would take those 3 hairs she gave him and encase them in crystal once he returned to Erabor to immoralize that beauty. So I think it's safe to say he didn't hate elves anymore lol.

[alperez]

kylecouch wrote...



Exactly...the difference between Cerberus and Ashely is 1...Cerberus IS actually raceist...and 2...Ashely dont lie to herself about her viewpoint.

And yes...it shows how Gimli has changed as a character...because he thought Galadrial was the most beautiful creature he ever saw and swore he would take those 3 hairs she gave him and encase them in crystal once he returned to Erabor to immoralize that beauty. So I think it's safe to say he didn't hate elves anymore lol.

See thats the thing i don't get how people can demonise Ash as a racist based on a couple of things she says without fully playing out the arc where her view can be challenged and changed. She has a genuine distrust bordering on dislike of aliens that once you confront her about she can change and start to challenge how she has viewed aleins up until then.

Once you do this her character changes (evident in some scenes with Wrex, Garrus and esp, in the scene with Terra Firma) wheras at no point in me2 does Cerberus ever question their viewpoint. Sure they agree to appease Shepard and let Shepard do things his/her way but they never accept that the position they hold is wrong or even that it could be.

But the Ash haters still demonise her and accept that cerberus may have a proper viewpoint, i don't know if thats ironic or simply moronic.

As for the Gimli parallel, its there for all to see if you wish to look for it, but some people no matter what won't even bother to take the time to see it. i'm glad that at least there is someone who does.

[TheRevanchist]

alperez wrote...

kylecouch wrote...



Exactly...the difference between Cerberus and Ashely is 1...Cerberus IS actually raceist...and 2...Ashely dont lie to herself about her viewpoint.

And yes...it shows how Gimli has changed as a character...because he thought Galadrial was the most beautiful creature he ever saw and swore he would take those 3 hairs she gave him and encase them in crystal once he returned to Erabor to immoralize that beauty. So I think it's safe to say he didn't hate elves anymore lol.

See thats the thing i don't get how people can demonise Ash as a racist based on a couple of things she says without fully playing out the arc where her view can be challenged and changed. She has a genuine distrust bordering on dislike of aliens that once you confront her about she can change and start to challenge how she has viewed aleins up until then.

Once you do this her character changes (evident in some scenes with Wrex, Garrus and esp, in the scene with Terra Firma) wheras at no point in me2 does Cerberus ever question their viewpoint. Sure they agree to appease Shepard and let Shepard do things his/her way but they never accept that the position they hold is wrong or even that it could be.

But the Ash haters still demonise her and accept that cerberus may have a proper viewpoint, i don't know if thats ironic or simply moronic.

As for the Gimli parallel, its there for all to see if you wish to look for it, but some people no matter what won't even bother to take the time to see it. i'm glad that at least there is someone who does.

It is indeed sad...considering Ashely distrusts aliens for a logical reason, that reason being they aren't human and will therefor always save their own race first if s*** hits the fan. Which honestly is how pretty much any person would behave...except Jake Sulley but thats beside the point. Her example with the bear and the dog is true...any human would do the same to save themselves...that does not make someone a racist they simplely consider themselves as a human more important than their dog as they would simply get another dog afterwards. Why? because dogs are not as important as a human life to many people.

Whereas Cerberus does everything in it's power to ensure they frame, screw over, and overall ****** off as many aliens as possible.