19 réponses à ce sujet

[Samwiseburks]

(Before read please keep in mind my opinions are passive, this is merely a type of survey to understand what people feel on the subject, my personal feelings towards this post are in no way attempting to be biased and I am not taking a stand on one side or the other)

This post is in response to an assignment that I am preparing for university, the main issue here is to discuss Fan Art vs Slash Fandom. (For those who don't know, Slash fandom generally involves homosexual or lesbian inspired art pieces, i.e Ashley and Female Shepard, or Male Shepard and Kaiden; in a nutshell) i ask the question, is this style of Fan-art taking it too far? As an example, the Starwars universe is generally considered a PG universe where these forms of artworks are to be discouraged by the wider audience. Should then the Mass Effect universe be strictly M15+ where any form of sexually explicit material is kept to snuggling and veers away from homosexual or lesbian material? And if so should these forms of artworks be shied away from? Or do you feel these expressions of art add to the story which is untold, possible avenues that inspired artists work upon in order to visualise more then the creators (Bioware) had first intended?

To be more specific, would you say artwork depicting a sexual relationship between (for example) M Shep and Kaiden or F Shep and Ashley should be discouraged because it moves too far away from the original story where these relationships didn't exist?

Second topic - How do you feel about erotic Mass Effect fan-art? Is it a means of expressing further what is unseen? Do you think artist intend it to have deeper meaning or is it just for sexy lols?

Modifié par Samwiseburks, 12 avril 2011 - 03:02 .

[Samwiseburks]

Modifié par Samwiseburks, 08 avril 2011 - 08:26 .

[Goodwood]

First of all, far be it for Goodwood (or any other fan) to tell a person what they can and cannot draw, paint, print, or model in regards to their fan art. This is as personal a thing as fan fiction, and should be written by someone because they want to write it -- not because they want to impress (or shock) an audience. That said, Goodwood is fully aware that there are subsets of every fanbase (whether or not the subject has any visual media associated with it) that love to express their creativity with so-called "mature" art. Whether said art is intended to be expressive of an individual's regard for the franchise or instead made simply to get a reaction from other folks (troll art, if you will) is and, in Goodwood's opinion, should be largely irrelevant.

That said, Goodwood certainly wouldn't want his young relatives (read: under thirteen years of age) to see such explicit artwork, even if he himself might like some of the more mild depictions. He is a heterosexual male who does appreciate that there are loving same-sex relationships out there and that such couples should be able to be together unmolested. The same goes for fan art -- it should not be limited to opposite-sex relationships. With regards to Mass Effect, the Female Shepard/Liara pairing isn't, strictly speaking, a same-sex relationship, since the asari are monogendered (only one gender, which happens to resemble human females in form); a better example would be a FemShep/Ashley pairing. He would further state that there is a difference between tasteful nudity and outright porn.

Finally, Goodwood wishes to inform the OP of "rule 34" and to encourage him to explore this aspect of the Internet culture and zeitgeist and possibly include said exploration in his report. Hopefully this helps...

Modifié par Goodwood, 08 avril 2011 - 09:11 .

[Samwiseburks]

Thanks alot this is really helpful, you made some very relevant points in which I intend to use for my assignment. *virtual hi-five*

[Kagura_Hakubi]

First of all, Liara/femshep isn't slash - Liara isn't female. (Edit: Ninja'd!)

Overall, though, I don't think that it's taking it too far at all. Romantic depictions of homosexuality are just as valid as heterosexual or even (at least as common in this fandom) xenophillic (human/alien, eg Shepard/Garrus) artwork. There's nothing (or shouldn't be) especially "adult" or "mature content" about such fan-art in comparison to heterosexual depictions of the same subjects.

Basically, my stance is thus:

If it's acceptable to depict romantic (not necessarily sexual) scenes of heterosexual characters, it's just as acceptable to depict romantic scenes of homosexual or xenophillic characters. Slash shouldn't be considered as separate from general fanfic beyond enabling people to find the stories (or artwork) they wish to read/view.

Labels such as 'slash', 'gen', and so on shouldn't be used to single out given examples for examination of 'appropriateness' - they exist to let the people who want to read such stories find them.

Such is my opinion. I hope it helps!

Modifié par Kagura_Hakubi, 08 avril 2011 - 10:50 .

[Samwiseburks]

Much appreciated, Ill make sure to edit that example of female shep/Liara hahaha, but you make good points this will really help my discussion on this particular element of my assignment, thanks again !

[technoquarian]

This is just my opinion, and hopefully I'm able to word it so that it makes sense...

Snuggling gays/lesbians are no more "x-rated" than snuggling straight couples. If we're strictly talking "heavier" stuff, same goes- mature-themed gay material shouldn't be rated as any more adult in nature than mature-themed het material.

Part of the problem, I think, is that considering, say, Kaidan and MShep snuggling- clothes on, etc.- as more risque than Ashley and MShep reinforces the idea that bisexual or homosexual behavior is a fetish. Too often gays are basically considered guys with a peen fetish, not guys who prefer to find love with other men. "Homosexual" as a term is far better suited to a descriptor of behavior and not sexual preference. For example, some animals engage in sexual behavior with others of the same sex- homosexual behavior- but I would hesitate to describe such animals as "gay."

Homosexuality is sometimes fetishized, but I find that it's found far more frequent in straight people (guys digging girl-on-girl, or yaoi fangirls digging boy-on-boy).

Hope that makes sense.

[Russalka]

Liara is sexually female, therefore she is a woman, part of a monogendered race of women.

[lilliful]

No, it's not taking it too far. The only issue here is intellectual copyrights, as none of the fan material I've ever seen qualifies as illegal or unacceptable in any other area of law (under obscenity statutes, etc). Given that people generally are sticking to the rule of not making money off of the work or claiming the work is an original piece, we're all good. And while we're on the subject of giving credit where credit is due, I hope you plan to cite BSN in your assignment. Just saying.

[catabuca]

1) As far as Liara is concerned her relationship with femShep is not a lesbian one because she has no concept of multiple genders; HOWEVER, to femShep and to players of the game it IS a lesbian relationship because for crying out loud Liara looks and sounds female. As far as femShep is concerned, she's dating a woman. End of story. Otherwise, are you going to tell me that for manShep dating Liara it isn't a straight relationship? Yeah ... didn't think so. manShep's dating a woman, right?

2) I'm with techniquarian ^^ on the PG-13 thing. A same-sex relationship is not somehow more risque or mature than an opposite-sex one. It's exactly the same. If we are talking about R-rated stuff, the issue is one of the acts being depicted, not who they are being depicted between.

3) There should not ever be any kind of restrictions around whether fans are allowed to create artwork/literary work on specific themes. Who is going to enforce this? Decide it? Police it? And why should it matter? To suggest it might be 'taking it too far' is ridiculous. The phrase 'taking it too far' smacks of either amateur psychology (i.e. do the authors/artists need help? Why do they feel the need to write this stuff in the first place?), of some desire to not be exposed to anything that takes you out of your comfort zone, or a desire to control the output of a franchise that you personally enjoy.

4) Children shouldn't be playing mature rated games in the first place (although I know they do). The majority of sharing sites for fan creations have ratings systems in place, so it is possible for you to get an idea before reading/viewing whether there will be sexually explicit content within. To say no mature works should be created in case a child comes across them is redundant. If a child is searching adultfanfiction.net in the first place ... we have more problems here than the mere existence of adult-rated material, no?

5) To echo the ever-stupendous lilliful, I do hope you're going to be fully referencing your assignment with poster names, dates and full URLs. Wouldn't want to be plagiarising, passing ideas off as your own. And it would be interesting to read what you end up writing on the subject.

[Samwiseburks]

Thank you all for your assistance, to respond to catabuca, this is for a university assignment so it requires full referencing ACA style. If anyone wishes me not to use them as an example of community related feedback or quoted or paraphrased just let me know. But to quell any hesitations anything that you say here that I use I will make sure to give credit where credit is due. The purpose of this post was to see how the Mass Effect community felt about this particular aspect of fan culture.
Again thank you all very much I find all your comments enlightening and extremely insightful.

[Goodwood]

Samwiseburks wrote...

Thank you all for your assistance, to respond to catabuca, this is for a university assignment so it requires full referencing ACA style. If anyone wishes me not to use them as an example of community related feedback or quoted or paraphrased just let me know. But to quell any hesitations anything that you say here that I use I will make sure to give credit where credit is due. The purpose of this post was to see how the Mass Effect community felt about this particular aspect of fan culture.
Again thank you all very much I find all your comments enlightening and extremely insightful.

We're always happy to help. The Internet has long proven to be a great way to share information and informed opinions -- in Goodwood's experience, of course.

[Araxiel_1911]

I think fan art can never take it too far. Since art can never take it too far. If somebody draws a (I'm going to use a full blow of the explicit hammer here, so just skip that if you want to...) female version of Kaidan Alenko with 6 dicks and amputated arms and legs getting raped by two Grunts and one Garrus that is taking a ****, then he can draw that.
...'till this part)
But he shouldn't post it on these boards for christ sake and maybe put three million warnings around it if he's posting it somewhere else.

Actualy, I'm thinking Mass Effect is not taking it far enough. Only snuggling? Are you ****tin' me? I'm already quite angry that they took all sort of erotic scenes out of Mass Effect 2. M15+? That sounds like somebody thinks computer games are only for kids. And I hate that kind of view. If Liara and my Shepard are making out, you should be able to see them making out. If you don't like to watch two girls making out, then don't play as a female Shepard and romance Liara. It's as easy as that. Don't censor an adult games for adult players. And yes, I consider Mass Effect clearly a game for adults/mature people. A game in which one solution of solving a hostage situation is by shooting the hostage should not be played by a minor.

And thus back to fan art: An adult game is definitly allowed to have adult artwork and fan art.

And out of curiosity: What is the actual rating for Mass Effect one and two in the United States?

Edit: And if you question is if already same sex snuggling is too far: I don't even need to explain my opnion on that, do I?

Modifié par Araxiel_1911, 09 avril 2011 - 08:14 .

[Samwiseburks]

Strong words, yet also fair words! I agree, it is a mature aged game, one reason why I love it so explicitly, I think its MA+ in the States, but dont quote me on that hah. "I dont even need to explain that do i" not at all, you made your point quite clear, thanks heaps for your opinion, especially when you narrowed it down by saying "An adult game is definitely allowed to have adult artwork and fan art" that will be really helpful. Thanks again <

[lovgreno]

Just let the slash fans have their fun. It's not about real people or the actual game so I can't see how it harms anyone. In fact it shows initiative and imagination to write and draw fanart so it's something I can only encourage, even though some kinds of art may not be of my personal taste.

[Samwiseburks]

Thank you very much, sorry I didn't respond sooner, just been working fervently on this assignment. Thats fair, though, I mean some of the art is really nice, others not nice, I guess it comes down to personal preference

*Note* I updated this with another Q

[Samwiseburks]

For all those who helped by contributing there opinions and thoughts thank you very much, here is a link to my blog which contains the completed case study masseffectfanartdiscussion.blogspot.com, hope you enjoy and feel free to leave any comments/feedback etc

[Katamariguy]

When I see such art I experience 30% arousal and 70% horror/disgust. I guess others have a higher ratio.

[Samwiseburks]

ROFL that picture is great hahaha >.<