864 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Saphra Deden wrote...

No evidence is ever given, ever, at any point, that the Collector base indoctrinates people. When are you people going to stop writing fan-fiction to justify your decisions?

No evidence was ever given that the Object Rho indocrinated people until it did.

Object Rho-made by Reapers
Collector Base- made by Reapers.

You want to take the risk, go righ ahead.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

aimlessgun wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Basically, one of the other reasons I'm worried about the Collector base is that I now know, through these forums, that there are multiple people here who would feed billions of living humans into the goo vats if they "thought it would help." And If those peope exist in the ME universe, they're probably Cerberus higher-ups, or people who have a lot of pull in the Alliance military. Basically I want to keep the base out of the hands of monsters.

Billions? Come on, I'd only sacrifice millions!

No really though, "thought it would help" covers a lot of ground. If we're talking "goo a few million people or the trillions of sentient being in the galaxy will die", start up the blender.

I'm talking about some Scientist other than Mordin coming up to you and saying

"So, we've developed a way to make a goo reaper. It'll probably be a pretty awesome weapon, and I don't know if we can beat the Reapers otherwise. Should we make it?"

In real life there's rarely a point where we know exactly "Ok, if we do X we will win." In this scenario, it's possible you might be able to win without the goo reaper, but murdering billions of people will probably increase your chances of winning by some unknown amount. Nobody can tell you how much that amount is... it's possible that you can win without it. It's possible it only increases your win percentage by 2%. It's possible that without it you will lose.

[Dave of Canada]

MisterJB wrote...

Object Rho-made by Reapers
Collector Base- made by Reapers.

You want to take the risk, go righ ahead.

Relays - made by Reapers.
Omega - made by Reapers.
Citadel - made by Reapers.
Conduit - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
Thannix Cannon - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
EDI - made with Reaper technology after examining it.

Society is built on Reaper technology.

[Dave of Canada]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Basically, one of the other reasons I'm worried about the Collector base is that I now know, through these forums, that there are multiple people here who would feed billions of living humans into the goo vats if they "thought it would help."

I'm pro-Cerberus and keep the Base but I don't want to make another Reaper, Cerberus doesn't have the resources and people to pull it off anyway. What's at the base, including the knowledge on how to make a Reaper, is enough to justify it for me.

[Notho]

I destroyed the base, not out of a fear of indoctrination, but more out of a belief that the Illusive Man wouldn't use the tech responsibly. Aside from the Lazarus Project, what other Cerberus operation has benefited the galaxy, or even humanity?

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

That means we know what to watch out for on the Collector base. You see? If we'd listened to you we'd have just blown up Object Rho and wouldn't know this.

Eh, okay. Those findings were made by Dr. Kensen and her team long before Shepard came along and tried to destroy it.

And I believe that Arrival should be played after the suicide mission and be at least somewhat useful instead of just being about Harbinger talking smack to Shep like always.

People are putting so much faith in that giant blender, it's not even funny.

[Someone With Mass]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Relays - made by Reapers.
Omega - made by Reapers.
Citadel - made by Reapers.
Conduit - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
Thannix Cannon - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
EDI - made with Reaper technology after examining it.

Society is built on Reaper technology.

The Thanix and EDI were made by examinating Sovereign's remains, when the threat of indoctrination was long gone.

Can't really say the same about the rest.

[RiouHotaru]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Relays - made by Reapers.
Omega - made by Reapers.
Citadel - made by Reapers.
Conduit - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
Thannix Cannon - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
EDI - made with Reaper technology after examining it.

Society is built on Reaper technology.

Actually, with the exception of the last three, there's no indication the Reapers themselves made the Relays and what not, but rather, by the species from which the Reapers were formed from.

[Notho]

Dave of Canada wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Object Rho-made by Reapers
Collector Base- made by Reapers.

You want to take the risk, go righ ahead.

Relays - made by Reapers.
Omega - made by Reapers.
Citadel - made by Reapers.
Conduit - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
Thannix Cannon - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
EDI - made with Reaper technology after examining it.

Society is built on Reaper technology.

The relays and the Citadel are all part of an elaborate trap that the reapers use to harvest the galaxy. Omega was a prothean structure if remember correctly, and I don't remember seeing anywhere that the conduit was reaper tech ( although it was a mass relay so it probably was in some regard.)

[MisterJB]

Dave of Canada wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Object Rho-made by Reapers
Collector Base- made by Reapers.

You want to take the risk, go righ ahead.

Relays - made by Reapers.
Omega - made by Reapers.
Citadel - made by Reapers.
Conduit - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
Thannix Cannon - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
EDI - made with Reaper technology after examining it.

Society is built on Reaper technology.

Which is a bad thing, remember what Sovereign said? By using their technology, we develop along the paths they desire.
Also, do not compare the Citadel to the Collector Base. The Reapers wants sentient species to evolve for some reason. Making the Citadel an indoctrinating device would be counterproductive.
Still, we agree on one thing. EDI and the Thannix Cannons are useful and we managed to create them after blowying up Sovereign. So, let's blow the Collector Base and try to create something useful from the remains, shall we?

BTW, Omega was not made by the Reapers.

[Dave of Canada]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Actually, with the exception of the last three, there's no indication the Reapers themselves made the Relays and what not, but rather, by the species from which the Reapers were formed from.

Technically, yes. Though if the Reapers were made with the same technology that created the relays, it's sort-of Reaper technology. I doubt the Reapers would stray too far from those plans.

Someone With Mass wrote...

The Thanix and EDI were made by examinating Sovereign's remains, when the threat of indoctrination was long gone.

Can't really say the same about the rest.

Does it ever say that Sovereign's remains don't cause indoctrination? I thought it was left ambiguous.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 08 avril 2011 - 11:55 .

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Relays - made by Reapers.
Omega - made by Reapers.
Citadel - made by Reapers.
Conduit - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
Thannix Cannon - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
EDI - made with Reaper technology after examining it.

Society is built on Reaper technology.

And for hundreds of millions of years the Reapers have exploited this to farm people like free range cattle.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Notho wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Object Rho-made by Reapers
Collector Base- made by Reapers.

You want to take the risk, go righ ahead.

Relays - made by Reapers.
Omega - made by Reapers.
Citadel - made by Reapers.
Conduit - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
Thannix Cannon - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
EDI - made with Reaper technology after examining it.

Society is built on Reaper technology.

The relays and the Citadel are all part of an elaborate trap that the reapers use to harvest the galaxy. Omega was a prothean structure if remember correctly, and I don't remember seeing anywhere that the conduit was reaper tech ( although it was a mass relay so it probably was in some regard.)

Indeed. If we settled worlds using simple FTL and Ark ships rather than settling worlds most convenient to the Relays, it would be much, much harder for the Reapers to find us. There's substantial evidence that they pretty much sweep the areas around relays, and ignore the rest of the Galaxy, at least most of the time.

[Almostfaceman]

Notho wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Object Rho-made by Reapers
Collector Base- made by Reapers.

You want to take the risk, go righ ahead.

Relays - made by Reapers.
Omega - made by Reapers.
Citadel - made by Reapers.
Conduit - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
Thannix Cannon - made with Reaper technology after examining it.
EDI - made with Reaper technology after examining it.

Society is built on Reaper technology.

The relays and the Citadel are all part of an elaborate trap that the reapers use to harvest the galaxy. Omega was a prothean structure if remember correctly, and I don't remember seeing anywhere that the conduit was reaper tech ( although it was a mass relay so it probably was in some regard.)

Yeah, not to be nit-picky but Omega was mined by the Protheans.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Is this your way of conceding an argument without conceding an argument?

If Kenson had done what you want to do we'd have never stopped the arrival.

No, if Kenson had done what I wanted her to do, I wouldn't be needed there.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Basically, one of the other reasons I'm worried about the Collector base is that I now know, through these forums, that there are multiple people here who would feed billions of living humans into the goo vats if they "thought it would help."

I'm pro-Cerberus and keep the Base but I don't want to make another Reaper, Cerberus doesn't have the resources and people to pull it off anyway. What's at the base, including the knowledge on how to make a Reaper, is enough to justify it for me.

I'm not saying that YOU would. Lord no.

I'm saying that someone high-up would. Unless you plan on retiring to take a new, full-time job making sure nothing bad ever happens at the Collector base, if some crazy dude decides to wire his autistic bother into a mini-reaper, built by buying just a couple thousand slaves from the batarians and feeding them into goo vats, that is on you.

[aimlessgun]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
I'm talking about some Scientist other than Mordin coming up to you and saying

"So, we've developed a way to make a goo reaper. It'll probably be a pretty awesome weapon, and I don't know if we can beat the Reapers otherwise. Should we make it?"

In real life there's rarely a point where we know exactly "Ok, if we do X we will win." In this scenario, it's possible you might be able to win without the goo reaper, but murdering billions of people will probably increase your chances of winning by some unknown amount. Nobody can tell you how much that amount is... it's possible that you can win without it. It's possible it only increases your win percentage by 2%. It's possible that without it you will lose.

If people would go for that in a non 'roleplaying as psychopath Shepard' capacity, that is quite disturbing.

(though if +2% is the minimum increase in win %, and your previous win % was 0.5%, then you've just quintupled your chances!)

PS: Why the 'other than Mordin' caveat? Are you saying that if Mordin suggested it, you'd go along with it?

PPS: Best solution is to synthesize the organic goo material in factories/labs, which the collectors didn't do because I assume they wanted to go about it in the most evil way possible.

[Someone With Mass]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Does it ever say that Sovereign's remains don't cause indoctrination? I thought it was left ambiguous.

I assume indoctrination fields requires power to operate. Sovereign's power source went ka-boom along with him, if you didn't notice.

[Dave of Canada]

MisterJB wrote...

Which is a bad thing, remember what Sovereign said? By using their technology, we develop along the paths they desire.

And by mastering it, we're going past the path they wanted us to develop. Protheans mastered the relay technology and this led to Sovereign's downfall and the stop of the cycle.

Also, do not compare the Citadel to the Collector Base. The Reapers wants sentient species to evolve for some reason. Making the Citadel an indoctrinating device would be counterproductive.

And people who are indocrinated eventually become worthless and drooling idiots who can't do anything by themselves, having a reaper factory with the indocrination technology up would be counterproductive as the workers would eventually become too incompetent.

Therefor, they created their own species to manage the Base by adapting the Protheans.

So, let's blow the Collector Base and try to create something useful from the remains, shall we?

Big risk you're placing that there would be anything worth investigating left, excluding the data.

BTW, Omega was not made by the Reapers.

Retribution novel. Reaper-Grayson investigates Omega and is pleased with how the people are settling in.

[Dave of Canada]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm saying that someone high-up would. Unless you plan on retiring to take a new, full-time job making sure nothing bad ever happens at the Collector base, if some crazy dude decides to wire his autistic bother into a mini-reaper, built by buying just a couple thousand slaves from the batarians and feeding them into goo vats, that is on you.

Of course, though it'll only ever happen if the Alliance ever goes to open war against a species. Anything that can justify taking millions of prisoners.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, if she'd done what you wanted her to do she'd have destroyed it as soon as she found it and never unlocked its secrets.

Stop trying to have your cake and eat it too.

I can't recall when I said they should've destroyed Object Rho the moment they saw it.

I was referring to the Collector base when I said that.

Object Rho would explode along with the Alpha Relay.

Also, putting the Reaper artifact in the middle of the base without even trying to shield yourself from the obvious indoctrination fields is just dumb.

[aimlessgun]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

No, if Kenson had done what I wanted her to do, I wouldn't be needed there.

No, if she'd done what you wanted her to do she'd have destroyed it as soon as she found it and never unlocked its secrets.

Stop trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Good point. The only reason we're all still alive is because Kenson wasn't afraid to study Object Rho.