864 réponses à ce sujet

[Nathan Redgrave]

The Illusive Man wouldn't get indoctrinated as a result of the Base. He doesn't usually personally travel to research sites, and would be even more wary of it with indoctrination in the cards.

Retribution was an exception (he had a grudge against Grayson), and he realizes after the fact that it was a bad idea.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 09 avril 2011 - 07:00 .

[Kamikaze 738]

Meh, I told TIM that if he ever uses the base for something else besides stopping the Reapers, I have to kill him. Looks like thats what I have to do in ME3 if this is true... sigh damn bastard >

Modifié par Kamikaze 738, 10 avril 2011 - 12:02 .

[Icinix]

I've never held to the

Paragon = Choice is going to make life easier
Renegade = Choice is going to screw you over

or vice versa..

Just that they are two different ways of playing through the game for different outcomes. I believe the only people who will suffer are those that don't engage as many choices as they can. (allies, squad etc).

[lovgreno]

Kamikaze 738 wrote...

Meh, I told TIM that if he ever uses the base for something else besides stopping the Reapers, I have to kill him. Looks like thats what I have to do in ME3 if this is true... sigh damn bastard >

Not that suprising that he messed up again right?

[Arijharn]

...we don't know for sure what's happening lov. It's a bit early to pass judgement no?

[Reiella]

kanuvis wrote...

I will not receive any answer because spoilers. But srsly, the cerberus thing looks like Retcon and it sucks.

I spend trillions of money in the Lazarus project just to try kill him in ME3.

Frak yea Cerberus is full of smart people.

To be fair, the Cerberus thing felt like a retcon in ME2, and it's simply pendulum swinging back to ME1.

And ya...  Cerberus isn't allowed to be competant for two sets of reasons.  In ME1, they were a side enemy organization that served as a target for the player.  And in ME2, they were a sponsoring organization that provided more targets for the player.  So pretty much regardless, the player will be necessary for competance.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Destroying or keeping the base was never the point of the decision the point was if we keep the base who we are giving it too. And the person we gave it to is a chain smoking alchoholic who has a laundry list of Cells either being completely destroyed or going 'rogue'.

Gee what could possibly go wrong with giving god like technology to someone like that?

[omgmahbrain]

Not that suprising that he messed up again right?

Presumption much?

[omgmahbrain]

Gee what could possibly go wrong with giving god like technology to someone like that?

Yeah, it's not like his organisation was responsible for the reconstruction of the Normandy, the creation of EDI, or the resurrection of Shepard.

Oh wait...

[ISpeakTheTruth]

He built a ship...YAY! As much as I love EDI she really didn't do alot to help the mission, but at least she was smart enough to scrub the Reaper IFF before instaling it on the ship... oh wait she didn't do that.

I'll give you that bringing back Shepard was one good thing they did... but having done one good thing out of 20 things that they've either horribly failed at or couldn't keep members of his organisation following him doesn't exactly shout trustworthy.

Now if we had an option to give the base to anyone else than I'd have done that. But I'm not about to give god like tech to a man I wouldn't trust with a potato gun.

[omgmahbrain]

As much as I love EDI she really didn't do alot to help the mission, but at least she was smart enough to scrub the Reaper IFF before instaling it on the ship... oh wait she didn't do that.

Huh? EDI was integral to the overall mission's success.

Now if we had an option to give the base to anyone else than I'd have done that.

You'd hand it over to the genocidal Council?

[lovgreno]

Arijharn wrote...

...we don't know for sure what's happening lov. It's a bit early to pass judgement no?

Good point, I should have phrased it differently. However considering TIMmys and Cerberus track record it would not suprise me if he got himself indoctrinated or something like that.

[lovgreno]

Saphra Deden wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

Good point, I should have phrased it differently. However considering TIMmys and Cerberus track record it would not suprise me if he got himself indoctrinated or something like that.

Their track record is fine and if they do get themselves killed investigating the Collector base then it is no big loss anyway, right?

Well it usualy ends with everyone dead in their projects you know. It would be a waste of good and skilled people if they get huskified by the base and even more bad would be if the base started creating reapers again.

[Maestro975]

This brings up a similar question for those who have read Retribution: does it seem more like the base was kept or blown up to you?  They try to make it so it was either way, but was wondering how it felt to others on her.

One one hand "Cerberus had salvaged key pieces of the Collectors' operations" supports preserving the base. On the other hand, theses pieces could've been salvaged from Horizon or Freedom's Progress, and if they had the base, wouldn't they use IT for the experiments on Grayson rather than one of their standard facilities, which have a long history of getting trashed by rachni clones, geth heretics, mechs hacked by the Shadow Broker, and pissed-off turian commandos?

Their selection of hiding places seem somewhat limited, in Alliance space, their wanted criminals (though they do have well placed infiltrators sympathaziers, a'la the ****s in the 1920s, the Council' crackdown in Retribution was not unlike the Bavarian State Police crackdowns that followed the Beer Hall Putsch). In the Terminus systems they can operate a little bit more freely (and hence held in higher regard by humans who live there), but they also have more enemies: Eclipse has been looking for infomation they can use to blackmail them (Lost Operative assignment); Vido Santiago is probably pissed that Cerberus blew up Purgatory and disrupted so many of his other organizations, unless Zaeed killed him, then the Suns are pissed about that (SB comments about the Suns' generous bounty on Zaeed regardless of the refinery choice); they have virtually NO influence on Omega since Pel was killed in Ascension.

So if they had that the Collector base, the perfect fortress, why not use it? That has me thinking that the base was blown up. But on the other hand, after what happened on the Derelict Reaper, maybe TIM learned his lesson, stripped it for parts and scuttled it (like Darth Revan and the Star Forge in KOTOR, Revan rarely visited the Forge because he knew how it affected the Rakata, and he intended to discard it when he no longer needed it).

One more thing: Grayson was a rat! If anyone deserved a Colombian necktie or a Texas funeral, it was him.

[Last Vizard]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

That's a lot of 'what if's' though. At some point you need to act. As it is though, have you sort of planned a way to stop the Reapers?

Even if the Collector tech in and of itself is not sufficient, it's still in advance to what we have right now, and the Reapers have undoubtedly planned for what we have 'right now.'

It almost seems as if at the moment the best chance of any effective military response you can orchestrate against the Reapers involves a lot of harsh language, because your guns aren't capable of breeching their shields. Although it's the best hope we have, the Thanix is unknown against Reaper shields/armour and it seems unlikely that many Thanix actually exist within fleets, being that they are only mountable on Fighters and Frigates.

I did act. And my action was to destroy the thing I think is a trap. The thing that I totally rationally think is a trap. (I'm not saying that I have proof that it's a trap. I'm saying that there's no proof either way, so it's reasonable for me to have that opinion. It's also reasonable for you to think it isn't a trap. The only thing I'm trying to prove here is that both decisions are potentially valid, even from the point of view of logic.) 

I do have plans to fight them. I have SO MANY PLANS. Reverse engineer the Reaper IFF, figure out how to manipulate the mass relays, further research the technology to precision-hurl asteroids at 'em, develop anti-indoctrination tech, if the holo on Ilos was telling the truth. That thing was active less than two years ago. Do they not have Data Recovery in the future? Cure the Genophage and throw some Krogan at them. Use some Ark ships to send human escape colonies to stars distant from Mass Relays, and destroy all record of their existance and destination. See if the Geth know anything we can use. Evacuate one of the minor colonies, and trap that Mass Relay to blow if they go there.

If the Reapers aren't complete morons, they would have trapped the crap out of that base. I would have made sure the base was equipped with tech that seemed advanced, but was actually stuff I knew exactly how to deal with. If I didn't do that, then "releasing control" should self-destruct the base. Harbie barely seemed to care when he released control. If the Reapers are too stupid to trap the base, there's no way they'll be that hard to beat. I mean I'm suprised they can fly straight.

And that's the only justification for the base not being a trap anyone has offered: the Reapers are too dumb to have done that. Yet they're impossible to beat?

True, but what do they gain from the death of a human Reaper? if the Reapers where all that then they wouldn't have lost the Collector base... they are flawed and require other races to advance "they are machines and machines can be broken"

[Darth Death]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

Ugh. TIM hunting down Shepard makes no sense whatsoever, especially after knowing what s/he's capable of. Besides, why do that when the Reapers are invading? And to the only person who's trying to stop the Reapers?

TIM must be overconfident, indoctrinated, or just plain outright stupid. 

As I've said several times, we don't know what happens between games on the Cerberus front.

Doesn't matter. ME made it unequivocally clear that Cerberus is a shady, evil organization advancing their causes through crazy experiments, claiming to benefit all humanity (but in all reality they're the ones benefiting, not humanity). When was giving reaper tech to a madman who likes to use little children as test subjects ever a good idea lol? The people who choose to hand over the base to TIM are simply ignorant of Cerberus's actions or just naive, believing TIM is all for stopping the reapers. 

[NKKKK]

Cerberus is going after you anyways.

[george martin]

Keeping the base is the logical choice if the new controller has the galaxies interests at heart which he doesn't he really only cares about humans, and he's been known to do some pretty horrible experiments, with or without his knowledge it still happens.

When I saved the collector station in one of my games his smile told me all I needed to know, probably not a good idea to keep it around. I have a feeling he'll use it for some pretty bad purposes.

[Dean_the_Young]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

He built a ship...YAY! As much as I love EDI she really didn't do alot to help the mission,

You mean she didn't get you off the Collector Vessel by hacking platforms and doors to let you escape? She didn't run the ship's combat systems during, well, the combat phase of the assault, at a level no human or alien could match? She didn't control more platforms to get you through the Collector Base, and hack the networks to provide you data?

[aimlessgun]

Darth Death wrote...

Doesn't matter. ME made it unequivocally clear that Cerberus is a shady, evil organization advancing their causes through crazy experiments, claiming to benefit all humanity (but in all reality they're the ones benefiting, not humanity). When was giving reaper tech to a madman who likes to use little children as test subjects ever a good idea lol? The people who choose to hand over the base to TIM are simply ignorant of Cerberus's actions or just naive, believing TIM is all for stopping the reapers. 

The game railroads us into giving TIM a monopoly on the base. At the time of the decision it is completely reasonable to think you can tell the rest of the galaxy about it. In short, you cannot use "Oh TIM controls it" as an argument for destroying the base.

[thatguy212]

Keeping the base is only a bad idea if it helps the reapers win, if it helps cerberus defeat the reapers then it still was a good idea, even if they are apparently trying to kill shepard

[KotOREffecT]

This whole thing is a mind-f***... But knowing BioWare, and I do, they can pull this off, and heads will roll, kotor style..