864 réponses à ce sujet

[Kagura_Hakubi]

This isn't about Shepard. This is about the galaxy, and the ultimate fate of all species.

All species, by the way, includes humanity. I'm not just being an alien apologist. Shepard can convince Asari Matriarchs to join her side. She doesn't need to dick around with human substitutes or the next best thing.

"Disposable redshirts" is a concept that has no place here. Kaiden was a "disposable redshirt" by your apparent definition. Ashley certainly was - no super powers whatsoever!

Basically, Seboist, you're saying "Cerberus are cool, because despite all of their Mengler-esque experiments and evil deeds, they gave me a cool toy!" - the toy being Jack.

Who, incidentally, is also a mass-murdering psychopath, who doesn't even have the comforting label of 'sociopath' to hide behind.

Modifié par Kagura_Hakubi, 08 avril 2011 - 12:54 .

[MisterJB]

Saphra Deden wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

And what if he decides that what's best for humanity is to create our own Reapers to secure human dominancy in the Galaxy against the Reapers and beyond? You don't think he will sacrifice millions of innocent human to achieve this goal?

I'd be just fine with that. In fact in my first run of the game when I made the decision to save the Collector base I did it whilst also speculating that TIM might do just that. To make the most out of the Collector base we need to use it to its fullest potential.

We have different moral codes, then. I could not disagree more with what you said, there are lines that should never be crossed.
For example, using Husks and Creepers as expendable foot soldiers. Sure, why not? They're already dead anyway.
But the moment Humanity becomes ok with the sacrifice of millions to feed War-Machines, it's the moment Humanity stops being worth figthing for in my eyes.

Modifié par MisterJB, 08 avril 2011 - 12:44 .

[Drake_Hound]

Ok minor spoiler/speculation ,





sounds really obvious , if protheans were there , means it was there in there time too .
Since reapers didn´t find any other dominant race so long , the base must have been there ages ago .
So if protheans are so easily corrupted , then what would it mean to human.

It sounds like another trojan horse contingency plan to me.
But then again I might be wrong , and they shock me .

[Asheer_Khan]

Seboist wrote...

Kagura_Hakubi wrote...

Seboist wrote...



The experiments on Jack led her to be a powerful biotic in the fight against the Collectors and Reapers. That's WINNING.

That's... great.

You lead to the deaths of fifty or so potentially powerful human biotics (who are a rare resource as it is) to create...

One super-biotic who is almost as powerful as an Asari matriarch.

Wonderful. Brilliant!

Personally, I'd rather have the fifty or so moderately poweful human biotics who could be trained to work together, since mass manipulation is exponential, not linear. If I really needed a single biotic to do all the heavy lifting, I'd just get a damn Asari. No torture. No death. No "moral ambiguity".

Just a victory.

A super biotic gives humanity an edge and disposable red shirts aren't fit to be on Shep's team, only the best.

What edge?

Mentally unstable person which have in best case 10 years own life before her left... because timmy and couple ****ING JERKS pretending to be "scientists" decided to play some kind of gods and mess up her genes so badly?<_<

yes, you read that correctly... Jack IS DIEING because her body is unable to contain so much biotic energy what for naturally born biotic like Asari wouldn't be any problem... so i really wouldn't call her "creation" a "victory"..

too bad that we actually never learn how many kids died in Teltiun just in sake of creation of one human biotic "supernova"...

[The Elite Elite]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Seriously, who of you renegades actually trusted TIM after that stunt he pulled on the Collector Vessel?

I don't think anyone, renegade or not, really trusts TIM. However, I don't see how the Collector Vessel "stunt" is a problem. It was perfectly understandable what he did. As he says, he couldn't risk the Collector's being tipped off that he knows it's a trap. The information in the vessel was needed, and the collector's getting wind of TIM telling Shep "Oh, BTW, it's a trap. But we need the info they have so spring it anyway," could have ruined the whole thing. You even admit you understand his rationale. I guess after dealing with Saren and Soveriegn, TIM has enough faith in Shep's abilities to get out of the Collector Vessel alive.

Ceberus chasing you down does not mean that keeping the base was the wrong decision necessarily.

Indeed. Everyone is taking that little bit from the article to scream either "See, you renegades are stupid for saving that base! TIM now works for the Reapers!" or "See, BioWare is screwing us Renegades over and making the Paragon way the 'right' way to play!" How about we wait to get some context on the situation first?

[Dean_the_Young]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Besides, Cerberus hunting you still doesn't mean they become the bad guys. Maybe you're the bad guy. Shepard is Saren v2.0, remember?

Indeed he is. But Cerberus isn't a righteous group who hunt down "bad guys".

So they hunted down the Collectors because they wanted to shake their hands?

Cerberus's mandate very well can be about hunting down people deemed to dangerous. And those people very well can be 'bad guys.'


As to why they're hunting down Shepard... we have no context.

[Dean_the_Young]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

After you kill Illusive Man you take over Cerberus and any tech from Collector base.

Not a bad idea anymore.

I wouldn't trust myself with the Collector Base.

Me neither, but Renegade players shouldn't get slapped in face for it.

But it's perfectly okay for people to laugh at Paragons and go "YOU'RE SUCH AN IDIOT"?

If they're being idiots?

Yes.

Likewise, if a particular Renegade argument is mockable... mock it.

[Dean_the_Young]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

The rest of it we can be wary of, or blow up and study the pieces. And I'm not saying I'm correct. I'm just really, really paranoid about indoctrination. Better safe than sorry.

So we should have demanded they blow up Object Rho, regardless of whether or not the vision inside would have emerged intact, just on the suspicion it might indoctrinate?

[Dean_the_Young]

MisterJB wrote...

And what if he decides that what's best for humanity is to create our own Reapers to secure human dominancy in the Galaxy against the Reapers and beyond? You don't think he will sacrifice millions of innocent human to achieve this goal?

Why on Earth would this make sense?

Making Reapers out of people is a stupid use of Reaper technology. It costs more, is harder to pull off, and is entirely unnecessary to produce the military/strategic benefits of a Reaper, IE their technology.

[RainyDayLover]

Ugh. TIM hunting down Shepard makes no sense whatsoever, especially after knowing what s/he's capable of. Besides, why do that when the Reapers are invading? And to the only person who's trying to stop the Reapers?

[Golden Owl]

RainyDayLover wrote...

Ugh. TIM hunting down Shepard makes no sense whatsoever, especially after knowing what s/he's capable of. Besides, why do that when the Reapers are invading? And to the only person who's trying to stop the Reapers?

Yes, I have been wondering about that one myself...it doesn't make a great deal of sense.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Was it clarified that Shepard is being hunted by Cerberus after ME2's Renegade ending, or was it just vaguely stated that Cerberus is after Shepard? It might actually be something that changes depending on what you did in ME2. That Cerberus would be after Shepard due to blowing the base is obvious, Jacob actually says they are in the post-SM squadmate conversations.

Note that THIS part doesn't necessarily mean you spend two thirds of the game fighting Cerberus, it could just be a handwavey here-are-a-few-sidequests-to-acknowledge-you-screwed-Cerberus-up-the-bumcrack kinda thing, with the Illusive Man's role remaining pretty constant regardless of which way you went.

EDIT: Note that with the Earth being invaded, probably with no way to communicate an S.O.S., Cerberus may be unaware that the Reapers are attacking humanity.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 08 avril 2011 - 01:50 .

[Kekkis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

We have different moral codes, then. I could not disagree more with what you said, there are lines that should never be crossed.

When the survival of the species is at stake their NO LINE that can't be crossed. You can feel bad about it later. At least you will be alive.

So you will be first in the line when they start to look for volunteers for smoothie machine. At least Harbringer would get some serious WTF moment when he arrives to Earth and new human reapers says "Hello, those idiots did the job already. We can go to destroy rest of the galaxy now."

Robot slaves and Reaper tech. Nothing can go wrong with that combo

[MisterJB]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

And what if he decides that what's best for humanity is to create our own Reapers to secure human dominancy in the Galaxy against the Reapers and beyond? You don't think he will sacrifice millions of innocent human to achieve this goal?

Why on Earth would this make sense?

Making Reapers out of people is a stupid use of Reaper technology. It costs more, is harder to pull off, and is entirely unnecessary to produce the military/strategic benefits of a Reaper, IE their technology.

I was just giving an extreme example of what can be done with the Collector Base and what The Illusive Man would be willing to do.

Saphra Deden wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

We have different moral codes, then. I could not disagree more with what you said, there are lines that should never be crossed.

When the survival of the species is at stake their NO LINE that can't be crossed. You can feel bad about it later. At least you will be alive.

And again, we disagree. The continued existence of our species is important, yes. However, I feel that there's no point in saving humanity if we lose our humanity in the process and become worse than the Reapers.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Cerberus hunting dow Shepard doesn't make ver much sense... unless TIM's use of Reaper tech has finally backfired and the Reapers are indoctrinating him to keep Shepard on the ropes while they take out the Earth.

[Kaiser Shepard]

From a pro-humanity, pro-Cerberus perspective, keeping the base was never a bad idea: even if TIM now hunts even a Shep who gave him the base, there's still the bigger picture to consider. Still, there are certain scenarios to consider, such as TIM using the base to somehow gain control of the Reapers or something...

As something somewhere between a pro-humanity and a pro-cooperation Shep (although leaning towards the former), but one that never trusted TIM and his means, there won't be too much to possibly worry about for me.

[jamesp81]

MisterJB wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

After you kill Illusive Man you take over Cerberus and any tech from Collector base.

Not a bad idea anymore.

I wouldn't trust myself with the Collector Base.

I certainly wouldn't want to be hanging out on it.  Seriously.  Every time intact Reaper tech is reverse engineered, it turns into a complete ****storm.

[Seboist]

jamesp81 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

After you kill Illusive Man you take over Cerberus and any tech from Collector base.

Not a bad idea anymore.

I wouldn't trust myself with the Collector Base.

I certainly wouldn't want to be hanging out on it.  Seriously.  Every time intact Reaper tech is reverse engineered, it turns into a complete ****storm.

Thanix Cannon and EDI beg to differ.

[jamesp81]

Srau wrote...

xSTONEYx187x wrote...
 (No love for the renegades).

You got to be kidding ?
The best interrupts and replies are renegade.
When you choose de paragon path you only get cheesy cheesy interrupts a-la Hello Kitty and "walk on me feet" answers .

True.  That's why I make Paragon major choices, but I do renegade stuff all the time.  Such as shove that merc out the window, use renegade convo options with people I don't like, or breaking that merc's neck in Miranda's LM.

[jamesp81]

Pwener2313 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

But it's perfectly okay for people to laugh at Paragons and go "YOU'RE SUCH AN IDIOT"?

But that's what happens in real life? "No good deed goes unpunished" - Remember that.

And in real life, "renegades" make so many enemies that, at best, they end up facing everything alone.  At worst, they end up face down in a ditch somewhere before they accomplish their goal.