6 réponses à ce sujet

[Gregor55]

IIRC in most all CRPG games I've played money has never been a problem to obtain and access to the best equipment was restricted or controlled in other ways. In NWN2 for example ability to craft super weapons and items was restricted by the rarity of rogue stones and star saphires.  In BG1/2 IIRC the best weapons and armour always came as treasure found at the bottom of a dungeon after a desparate fight. In Oblivion and Morrowind enchantment for any piece of armour or weapon is limited by the enchantment capacity of the base material but it's easy to get soul gems and the money required to do enchantements. Rarely, if ever, have I seen highly desirable items avaiable in shops.

But in DAO I am presented with an array of mouthwatering items spread out across the merchant community replete with eyewatering price tags. However with the adverse terms of trade you get, the absense of any serious pots of gold to be found as treasure and the meagre take from pickpocketing excpeditions how, one asks, is one supposed to make enough money legitimately (in game terms) to buy these items?

Now I like this idea in principle: it means one has a whole new sense of exitement in finding every last thing of value, something that became a laborious chore in previous games since the money was so easy to come by, and a lot of incentive to look for any sort of quest, scam or secret location that might yield precious gold. This is realistic, edgy and makes you think several times before forking out 140 odd GP for The Rose Thorn. I think this is good.

The problem is there does not seem to be any way to legitemately get hold of enough gold. Rojek's proposition will yield enough GP to contemplate buying one of these expensive items I guess, but my question is does the game actually have any legitimate means to make more than that? I ask this because this time through I had been alerted to the lyrium potion scam. Half of me thinks this is a deliberate opportunity by design: surely the fact that a potent lyrium potion is worth 5GP but a potent health pultice is only worth 1.25GP cannot be an accident, someone must have noticed it. Nor the fact that the bartender at the pub sells concentrator agent at a 40% discount making this scam possible.

But the other half of me says that the fact that you can buy unlimited amounts of lyrium dust etc and sell all resultant potions makes this an unintended exploit and taking advantage of it amounts to cheating.

Well, is it cheating? And if not, why did the designers put only this one (easily missed) scam in the game (Rojek notwithstanding)?

[Wedge Antilles]

If you have no problems with using game cheats ( or "exploits" depending on your sense of fairness) there is an excellent  one for infinite money on wikipedia. I think if you search " game cheats" on the search engine it comes up. It does not require any mods and works on the PC without changes . Not sure about other systems though.
There used to be a visual one one You tube once as well. Cheating ? Possibly.  It all depends on whether you are trying to survive on the more difficult levels or not .  Some  just  can not be done on solo nightmare with out help ( either coin for useful $ items , the fade stat cheat, etc.). As the Wardens say : Anything it takes to win!

[MrSwizleSticks]

I think Bioware deliberately limited the amount of gold in the game so that the player couldn't get access to all the best items. Which would've worked if there wasn't a number of glitches to abuse to get massive amounts of gold.

[Gregor55]

MrSwizleSticks wrote...

I think Bioware deliberately limited the amount of gold in the game so that the player couldn't get access to all the best items. Which would've worked if there wasn't a number of glitches to abuse to get massive amounts of gold.

Maybe. Bioware did that in NWN2 by limiting the number of rogue stones and star saphires IIRC - you have to agonize over how to use what you get, although in NWN2 I think you find more good weapons as treasure than in DAO.

I found a page called "(money making) exploits" in the wiki and sure enough this lyrium potion scam is listed there although it is treated almost as it's own sub-topic. All the other "glitches" listed are clearly programming errors and their use is clearly cheating. But this is not a programming error. If it is an error at all it's simply setting two data parameters wrong (the base price of a potent lyrium at 5GP and the sell price of concentrator agent reduced from 50SP to 33SP for the Gnarled Noble barkeep, the latter, a deliberate configuration action rather than an oversight, being the strongest evidence in favour of lyrium trading ligitimacy).

So it would be so easy to fix, why haven't Bioware done so by patch 1.4? On the other hand, the fact that you can make unlimited gold this way suggests it is a cheat/exploit.

Personaly I don't use unintended exploits or programming glitches to win games but I like awsome weapons and rings as much as the next guy so I am in turmoil over this: it simply is not clear whether lyrium potion trading is legitimate play by design or exploiting a game design oversight. 

[maxernst]

The problem I have with lyrium potions is not so much that it's an exploit as that it doesn't make sense in the lore to be able to buy lyrium dust and sell lyrium potions freely. The Chantry are supposed to have the lyrium trade locked down. For that matter, one of the biggest problems with the setting is the disconnect between what we're told about mages and what we see in game. Mages are imprisoned in the Tower and the Templars ruthlessly hunt apostates...but we see apostates everywhere, The party's mages can cast spells right in front of the Templars without comment. Wynne is able to leave the tower and chooses not to return without apparent sanction, Ines is wandering around on her own in Awakening.

[Fallstar]

Gregor55 wrote...

MrSwizleSticks wrote...

I think Bioware deliberately limited the amount of gold in the game so that the player couldn't get access to all the best items. Which would've worked if there wasn't a number of glitches to abuse to get massive amounts of gold.

Maybe. Bioware did that in NWN2 by limiting the number of rogue stones and star saphires IIRC - you have to agonize over how to use what you get, although in NWN2 I think you find more good weapons as treasure than in DAO.

I found a page called "(money making) exploits" in the wiki and sure enough this lyrium potion scam is listed there although it is treated almost as it's own sub-topic. All the other "glitches" listed are clearly programming errors and their use is clearly cheating. But this is not a programming error. If it is an error at all it's simply setting two data parameters wrong (the base price of a potent lyrium at 5GP and the sell price of concentrator agent reduced from 50SP to 33SP for the Gnarled Noble barkeep, the latter, a deliberate configuration action rather than an oversight, being the strongest evidence in favour of lyrium trading ligitimacy).

So it would be so easy to fix, why haven't Bioware done so by patch 1.4? On the other hand, the fact that you can make unlimited gold this way suggests it is a cheat/exploit.

Personaly I don't use unintended exploits or programming glitches to win games but I like awsome weapons and rings as much as the next guy so I am in turmoil over this: it simply is not clear whether lyrium potion trading is legitimate play by design or exploiting a game design oversight. 

I justified this to myself by saying that you need to have master herbalism to craft potent lyrium potions, and since so few people are masters in herbalism, it makes sense that the select few who are, can make very valuable potions and become rather rich.

P.S: If you have the dlcs, you can just sell the reaper's cudgel for 330odd sovereigns right at the beginning of the game! Or 600 odd if you're a dwarven noble. Added to the money you would normally accumulate during the game, there is no need to craft potent lyrium potions if you don't want to.

[Gregor55]

OK, I've started Awakening, got to the town, checked the merchants and Lo! potent lyrium potions are there large as life with the 1.25 sell price tag and the whole ingredients list is available from merchants (including ther discounted concentrator agent price you get at the Gnarled Noble) to make the process as easy as possible.

Conclusions: a) this is deliberate game design and a legitimate way to make money, you are supposed to be able to buy the cool gear available from merchants.

One thing, I guess getting up to level 4 potion making might be trickier for people who use tactics slots, but since I don't use tactics at all ( I turn it off for all characters) I don't spend a single skill point on it, so I have skill points to burn.