63 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

"This security setup is strictly amateur stuff" - Alex Jacobson, in "Deus Ex"

WIth the opportunity to avoid the batarian guards instead of killing them, Arrival put a new gameplay element in ME2. I'd like to know what people think of it. Here are my thoughts:

(1) The biggest hindrance to getting that part done was not to know that it was possible. I only came to know that  through the forum after I had finished my first run, being not one who usually looks for new achievements (the concept generally being too gamey for my taste). Shepard saying something like "Perhaps I should avoid those guards." would have helped greatly.

(2) I appreciated very much that I was given the opportunity to do a stealth sequence. For the first time in two games, my Infiltrator felt like one. Stealth, IMO, is not primarily for combat, but for avoiding combat. More of that, please!

(3) The sequence was far, far too easy. No wandering guards? No guards occasionally looking in your direction? Bah. Admittedly I'm a veteran of the Thief games, but really - a little more non-combat challenge would've been very good for this DLC.

(4) It would have been nice to have the opportunity to take out single batarians silently from behind. Granted, IIRC they were almost always in pairs, but perhaps that's something to keep in mind should there be more stealth sequences in ME3. 

So what do you all think of it?

[FobManX]

I am a Vanguard so I just ran it and killed stuff, heh. I like the stealth option though. More gameplay variety is never a bad thing.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Lame--no real stealth mechanics, just "find a way around." Very 8-bit. Would be open to more stealth gameplay in the future if actual stealth mechanics were involved, but all of the buttons on my controller are all wrapped up in normal mechanics, so it's unlikely.

[Kronner]

It sucked. There was NO stealth action whatsoever.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Ieldra2 wrote...
(3) The sequence was far, far too easy. No wandering guards? No guards occasionally looking in your direction? Bah. Admittedly I'm a veteran of the Thief games, but really - a little more non-combat challenge would've been very good for this DLC.

You presume too much, my friend, lol. In fact, this sequence is littered with bugs/glitches that could fail your stealth approach and prevent you from getting the achievement on your first run. Some people have reported the guards sensing them through walls and having strange things trigger. I myself had a save/reload bug that recorded me as having been detected by the guards even after reloading, which kept me from getting the stealth achievement.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 08 avril 2011 - 05:46 .

[flem1]

Too easy, don't need actual stealth.

[Ieldra]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
(3) The sequence was far, far too easy. No wandering guards? No guards occasionally looking in your direction? Bah. Admittedly I'm a veteran of the Thief games, but really - a little more non-combat challenge would've been very good for this DLC.

You presume too much, my friend, lol. In fact, this sequence is littered with bugs/glitches that could fail your stealth approach and prevent you from getting the achievement on your first run. Some people have reported the guards sensing them through walls and having strange things trigger. I myself had a save/reload bug that recorded me as having been detected by the guards even after reloading, which kept me from getting the stealth achievement.

So, is it? Well, I never experienced any bugs. Sometimes I could hear guards do something with their weapons as I approached, but they didn't detect me, as proven by my getting the achievement after one such run.

If that stuff can only happen on your first run, it's no surprise, because on my first run I didn't even know that I don't need to kill those guards. In my run, it was a cakewalk. Just walk on and don't get too near any guards - I guess that's the only mechanic they had.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 avril 2011 - 05:55 .

[danteliveson]

It was terrible, getting caught but giving no indication that you have been detected is bad.

[Raphael diSanto]

It was a cool concept. Given the limitations of the ME2 engine, it was executed about as well as could be expected. Kinda a bummer that Infiltrators couldn't use their cloak, but I guess it keeps the field level for the other classes, I guess.

[Fixers0]

Mass effect 2 isn't a stealth game, and in there were no actual stealth mechanics involved just a few guard who are looking in the opposite direction.

Modifié par Fixers0, 08 avril 2011 - 06:19 .

[TheDFO]

While a GOOD stealth section would be cool, I really doubt that could do it well.

First, non-stealth based games that shoe horn in stealth usually fall flat.
Second, this sequence was completely lame. If you didn't hit a bug, all you had to do was not TRY to get attention, and you'd succeed.

Okay, all I can really think of is two. But still, I really don't think it's a good idea.

[Zubie]

 Meh, didn't even bother with stealth. I just ran in there guns blazing.....and I am an infiltrator;)

[Thompson family]

Ieldra2 wrote...
The sequence was far, far too easy.

Yep.

[Mr0TYuH]

I like stealth sequences. I'm a fan of Hitman, Splinter Cell and Assassin's Creed. That being said, I didn't care for it too much. I wouldn't mind if they expanded it in ME3, but they would need to polish it a lot.

[Thrombin]

I didn't know about the stealth option on my first run-through. I only noticed it was possible after checking on the possible achievements. On my second run-through I used my infiltrator. It was quite fun to imagine being stealthy but, in terms of skill, there was very little involved. You just had to opt not to kill the guards and walk past them instead!

Personally, I enjoy killing the guards, which is what I did for every other run through after that one!

[Fiery Phoenix]

It was good, but no great. I went to it expecting there to be actual stealth animations involved, but it was only working your way around the guards. And ironically, using Tactical Cloak actually hinders the stealth Achievement (if you don't already have it). Still, it was pretty fun for what it is.

[CaptainZaysh]

I enjoyed it. I liked Shepard sneaking toward an objective rather than assaulting it for a change.

[termokanden]

Didn't like it. There is no real way to sneak in Mass Effect 2, and the guards clearly should have seen me WALKING past them.

If you want to do stealth properly, you need stealth mechanics.

[Avissel]

I liked the idea, but the execution was a little lacking. There was no real challenge to being stealthy.

[SalsaDMA]

It wasn't a stealth mission to do it while getting the achievement.

It was a 'climb over here instead of walking left' 'choice' to get an achievement.

There was nothing stealthy about it.

I know the devs looked at 'Alpha Protocol', so hopefully they'll take more clues from there in the future if they want to take Stealth seriously as a mechanic.

[spacehamsterZH]

Avissel wrote...

I liked the idea, but the execution was a little lacking. There was no real challenge to being stealthy.

This. It's nice that BW are trying to mix up the gameplay a bit, and there are other spots in Arrival where you can see they tried to go beyond the usual "walk down this corridor, take cover behind the chest-high walls and kill everyone" level design, but it's not working... yet. I think as a quick thing in between to provide some variety it's fine, but if stealth is to be a major gameplay element in ME3, the devs need to do what they did with the shooting and look at some good stealth games to see how it's done properly. And good stealth games are a difficult beast to pull off, that's why there's so few of them.

[Xeranx]

Ieldra2 wrote...
(1) The biggest hindrance to getting that part done was not to know that it was possible. I only came to know that through the forum after I had finished my first run, being not one who usually looks for new achievements (the concept generally being too gamey for my taste). Shepard saying something like "Perhaps I should avoid those guards." would have helped greatly.

The attempt was appreciated. I didn't get the achievement, but I'll try it again maybe before ME3 comes out.

I'd rather not have my protagonist tell me that I need to avoid the guards or suggest it. I was already told by Hackett to be stealthy so there's no need to have the protagonist say anything more about it. I really want to drive that point home because I can already imagine every section resulting in something akin to "More guards! Have to be careful", "Damn there's more guards here as well". That'll get annoying and tiresome much like I am in trying to drive this home so I'll stop now.

[KingNothing125]

I am in favor of stealth sequences. Avoiding combat can often be just as thrilling as actual combat.

That said, during Arrival I just went through and gunned everyone down

[spacehamsterZH]

The big problem I see with stealth in BW games is that if stealth games need one thing, it's good AI. And that's... let's just say not one of BW's strengths. The AI in ME2 is mostly adequate or what it needs to do, but that's about it.