331 réponses à ce sujet

[Jagri]

Aye Cerberus out to kill Shepard in Mass Effect 3...

"You know, somehow, I told you so just doesn't quite say it." Will Smith (I Robot)

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Bad King wrote...Also, even if Cerberus did manage to kill Shepard, they would get nothing out of it. When there are reapers on earth's doorstep, it would be incredibly silly if Cerberus suddenly decided to try and kill Shepard just to fulfill some sort of petty revenge especially when it's a mission that's doomed to fail.

He may deem Shepard to be too much of a risk because all he does is blows up chances to get the upper hand against the Reapers. Actually Paragon Shepard's answer has always been "blow it up" at this point. In Arrival, Paragon Shepard himself even doubts they can win this.


Also, as Shepard (given the trial) may no longer be the "hero, a bloody icon" that TIM wanted him to be for them... making Shepard just a liability to Cerberus going forward.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 08 avril 2011 - 09:47 .

[Dave of Canada]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

You do a mission for the Alliance/Hackett.  Now you may not have officially became an Alliance soldier again but you do continue taking missions from them essentially. 

And Hackett himself says I'm still Cerberus.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

You do a mission for the Alliance/Hackett.  Now you may not have officially became an Alliance soldier again but you do continue taking missions from them essentially. 

And Hackett himself says I'm still Cerberus.

Which would hint at a double-agent traitor type of persona.

[Labrev]

Bad King wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Cerberus has long been said to have a "history of betrayal." I have no clue how/why they've been labeled that, but it's something that should have raised a red flag all along.

For two, you don't know anything about Cerberus or TIM. So why anyone ever trusted them from the start is naiive.

For me, I had no issue with Cerberus/TIM until the final decision about the C-Base. I don't care that he lied to me before sending me off on several missions, and put others in danger in the process, but in the end I could tell that he was just after the Collector tech. TIM is a master manipulator, he thought he'd fool you into giving him that base.

Still, if you destroy the base and then die during the SM, he doesn't seem that bothered and claims that despite Shepard's idealistic nature, the destruction of the CB was a victory and that humanity are "nothing if not resilient".

Yeah, that's what he says, and if you go by what he says, that's when you get yourself in trouble.

Of course he's not going to tell Joker "GAH!! DAMMITT, I WAS GOING TO SECURE CERBERUS DOMINANCE WITH THAT BASE!!! THIS WHOLE MISSION WAS A FAILURE!"

He puts on his act, and never breaks his character before anyone.

[JamieCOTC]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...

Shepard was a pawn.

That's affirmative.

But it still makes no sense for *my* Shepard, for instance, who is Human-supremacist and recognizes TIM's authority in all matters strategic. In other words, he is not standing in TIM's way.

This is a double plot hole: it makes no sense for TIM to kill him, but it would be very easy to do so by luring him into any kind of trap just by summonin him there.

In any case, either TIM doesn't want to survive the Reaper invasion (he is somehow indoctrinated), or thinks that Shepard may be detrimental to that goal (Shepard is indoctrinated).

Not only is Shep standing in TIM's way, s/he basically takes over of the Reaper mission.  Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't renegade Shep tell TIM to "keep up or get out of my way" at the end of ME2?  Paragon or renegade, Shep and TIM do NOT part on good terms.  The renegade option actually accuses TIM of "dreaming of power"  and TIM doesn't look happy about it. Yeah, it's railroading, just like they railroaded Shep into Cerberus in the first place. I really wish ME2 was as complex as you think it is, but it's not. 

[Bad King]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Cerberus has long been said to have a "history of betrayal." I have no clue how/why they've been labeled that, but it's something that should have raised a red flag all along.

For two, you don't know anything about Cerberus or TIM. So why anyone ever trusted them from the start is naiive.

For me, I had no issue with Cerberus/TIM until the final decision about the C-Base. I don't care that he lied to me before sending me off on several missions, and put others in danger in the process, but in the end I could tell that he was just after the Collector tech. TIM is a master manipulator, he thought he'd fool you into giving him that base.

Still, if you destroy the base and then die during the SM, he doesn't seem that bothered and claims that despite Shepard's idealistic nature, the destruction of the CB was a victory and that humanity are "nothing if not resilient".

Yeah, that's what he says, and if you go by what he says, that's when you get yourself in trouble.

Of course he's not going to tell Joker "GAH!! DAMMITT, I WAS GOING TO SECURE CERBERUS DOMINANCE WITH THAT BASE!!! THIS WHOLE MISSION WAS A FAILURE!"

He puts on his act, and never breaks his character before anyone.

He does get angry if Shepard survives after destroying the base. But I assumed that he would simply get over it like he does in the Shepard dying ending.

[jbblue05]

Please Bioware give legitimate reasons why Cerberus attacks Shepard..

TIM better be indoctrinated or Shepard better be an  avatar for the Reapers and by killing Shepard you can take down Harbinger's shiields and end the Reaper threat.

Maybe Shepard has to fight off Cerberus while SHepard looks for away to cure himself

[Dave of Canada]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Not only is Shep standing in TIM's way, s/he basically takes over of the Reaper mission.  Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't renegade Shep tell TIM to "keep up or get out of my way" at the end of ME2?

Depends on your choices in the end conversation. I basically told him to not misuse the base or we'd all pay.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dave of Canada wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Not only is Shep standing in TIM's way, s/he basically takes over of the Reaper mission.  Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't renegade Shep tell TIM to "keep up or get out of my way" at the end of ME2?

Depends on your choices in the end conversation. I basically told him to not misuse the base or we'd all pay.

Doesn't the renegade meeting with TIM end with either...

A) Shepard just giving a warning about not misusing the base while the Reapers are here.

Shepard saying he is going to stop the Reapers with or without Cerberus assistance.

C) Shepard just wants to shut up TIM for a moment and have a well earned break for kicking the collectors's butt.

I would not call those "leaving on bad terms".

Modifié par Lizardviking, 08 avril 2011 - 10:35 .

[Casuist]

I suspect people are overthinking the base vs. not base and paragon vs. renegade aspects. Under the assumption that TIM gives the order to go after Shepard, he would do so automatically if he had any reason to think it would serve his agenda-an agenda which is not and has never been limited to defeating the reapers.

Shepard, to TIM is a tool in ME2 for meeting that agenda. renegade vs. paragon only has to do with how verbally compliant a tool he/she happens to be.

[JamieCOTC]

Lizardviking wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Not only is Shep standing in TIM's way, s/he basically takes over of the Reaper mission.  Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't renegade Shep tell TIM to "keep up or get out of my way" at the end of ME2?

Depends on your choices in the end conversation. I basically told him to not misuse the base or we'd all pay.

Doesn't the renegade meeting with TIM end with either...

A) Shepard just giving a warning about not misusing the base while the Reapers are here.

Shepard saying he is going to stop the Reapers with or without Cerberus assistance.

C) Shepard just wants to shut up TIM for a moment and have a well earned break for kicking the collectors's butt.

I would not call those "leaving on bad terms".

Yeah, Shep tells him to not misuse the base and he tells Shep that s/he is too idealistic and makes an angry face, but, whatever.  

[aimlessgun]

Marta Rio wrote...

I've always figured that TIM was ultimately going to side with the Reapers, because the Reapers offer humanity the chance to achieve god-like status.  Sort of the ultimate way to assure human dominance in the galaxy (even if it's some altered form of humanity).  I think I posted this in the forums, and then was shot down because "No, TIM hates the Reapers and would never ever side with them." 

In light of this new information, maybe TIM is coming around to the Reapers' way of thinking.  Or they offer him some sort of deal - e.g. he gets to keep some form of consciousness in a new Reaper body.   It would be interesting to have a character that buys into what the Reapers are doing without being indoctrinated (although I'm not sure TIM's the right character for this).

Yeah, I find this the most likely. Not Shep as Saren 2.0, but TIM as Saren 2.0 (minus indoctrination). Saving some part of humanity in exchange for selling out the rest of the galaxy.

Now, even if that was the case, I'd like Shepard to be able to side with that

[HK-90210]

Stardusk78 wrote...

No, much simpler than that;

Shepard blows up base=TIM angry

Shepard keeps base=TIM indoctrinated

This. Both make sense, and fullfill all requirements for getting Cerberus on Shepard's ass.

Simple theories are often the best.

[Thompson family]

Why is Cerberus chasing Shepard?

If Shep gave them the base, they don't need him any more.

If Shep blew up the base, they view him/her as a loose cannon.

I like the theory that they've figured out why the Reapers want him too.

[Almostfaceman]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Not only is Shep standing in TIM's way, s/he basically takes over of the Reaper mission.  Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't renegade Shep tell TIM to "keep up or get out of my way" at the end of ME2?

Depends on your choices in the end conversation. I basically told him to not misuse the base or we'd all pay.

Doesn't the renegade meeting with TIM end with either...

A) Shepard just giving a warning about not misusing the base while the Reapers are here.

Shepard saying he is going to stop the Reapers with or without Cerberus assistance.

C) Shepard just wants to shut up TIM for a moment and have a well earned break for kicking the collectors's butt.

I would not call those "leaving on bad terms".

Yeah, Shep tells him to not misuse the base and he tells Shep that s/he is too idealistic and makes an angry face, but, whatever.  

Well, here's one Renegade dialogue:

Tim: Shepard, it's a new day and we have you to thank for our deliverance.

Shepard: Don't try to flatter me - We did the right thing, you don't need to try and make me feel good about it.

Tim: Always willing to do whatever it takes, well, it's paid off.  Adapting the technology of the Collector base could be the biggest advancement for human kind since the discovery of the relays.  It will secure our dominance in the galaxy against the Reapers and beyond.

Shepard: Human dominance? Or just Cerberus?

Tim: They're one and the same my mission has always been to promote and secure humanity's continued strength.  Don't let idealism blind you.  Using the base to its fullest potential is the best way to fulfill ours.

Shepard: That base won't win the war - Just remember, the Reapers are still out there, Harbinger is coming and you can bet he won't be alone.  You get selfish you start dreaming about power and we'll all pay the price.

Tim: Don't presume to judge me or my methods.  Cerberus will be ready to face the Reapers.

Shepard: You better be - You brought me back to lead this war and that's what I'm going to do, if you can keep up, great.  If not, I'll stop the Reapers without you.

Well, right there, Shep just told TiM he's not taking his (TiM's) orders.

[88mphSlayer]

ugh, i don't know if i want Mr. Space Marine to evolve into Mr. Space Jesus, placing way too much importance in Shepard's "specialness" takes away from the events at hand and the struggle for survival imo

and i still don't understand why keeping the base would make TIM get indoctrinated... why exactly would that happen? is TIM going to become a carbon copy of Knight Commander Meredith? is railroading this really about choice in the mass effect universe or is it just for cinema's sake? even MGS4 achieved moral ambiguity for its antagonists by the end of the game, surely we're not jumping into popcorn flicks for ME3 right?

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 09 avril 2011 - 01:35 .

[Inverness Moon]

I hope this information about TIM being an enemy in ME3 was somehow misinterpreted.

It makes zero sense for TIM to go after Shepard no matter what he does with the base. I can't believe I'm already so disappointed upon the first release of information about ME3.

Trying to explain it away as indoctrination would be ridiculous. There is no way TIM would endanger himself in such a way, he stays on his hidden station nearly all of the time.

Marta Rio wrote...

I've always figured that TIM was ultimately going to side with the Reapers, because the Reapers offer humanity the chance to achieve god-like status.  Sort of the ultimate way to assure human dominance in the galaxy (even if it's some altered form of humanity).  I think I posted this in the forums, and then was shot down because "No, TIM hates the Reapers and would never ever side with them." 

In light of this new information, maybe TIM is coming around to the Reapers' way of thinking.  Or they offer him some sort of deal - e.g. he gets to keep some form of consciousness in a new Reaper body.   It would be interesting to have a character that buys into what the Reapers are doing without being indoctrinated (although I'm not sure TIM's the right character for this).

This seems like a silly explanation to me. In my opinion, TIM is about as likely to take up that offer as Shepard. What you're suggesting would only make sense of TIM was a collossal idiot, which he isn't. The reapers wouldn't offer deals either, and TIM would be a fool to believe such an offer is genuine.

[Almostfaceman]

Inverness Moon wrote...

I hope this information about TIM being an enemy in ME3 was somehow misinterpreted.

It makes zero sense for TIM to go after Shepard no matter what he does with the base. I can't believe I'm already so disappointed upon the first release of information about ME3.

Trying to explain it away as indoctrination would be ridiculous. There is no way TIM would endanger himself in such a way, he stays on his hidden station nearly all of the time.

Marta Rio wrote...

I've always figured that TIM was ultimately going to side with the Reapers, because the Reapers offer humanity the chance to achieve god-like status.  Sort of the ultimate way to assure human dominance in the galaxy (even if it's some altered form of humanity).  I think I posted this in the forums, and then was shot down because "No, TIM hates the Reapers and would never ever side with them." 

In light of this new information, maybe TIM is coming around to the Reapers' way of thinking.  Or they offer him some sort of deal - e.g. he gets to keep some form of consciousness in a new Reaper body.   It would be interesting to have a character that buys into what the Reapers are doing without being indoctrinated (although I'm not sure TIM's the right character for this).

This seems like a silly explanation to me. In my opinion, TIM is about as likely to take up that offer as Shepard. What you're suggesting would only make sense of TIM was a collossal idiot, which he isn't. The reapers wouldn't offer deals either, and TIM would be a fool to believe such an offer is genuine.

(see dialogue from game I posted above)

I just think it's more likely that TiM and Shep (Renegade) just don't see eye to eye on who's leading and making decisions.  It really doesn't have to be much more than that - both are Type A personalities and TiM is completely ruthless.

[Inverness Moon]

Almostfaceman wrote...

(see dialogue from game I posted above)

I just think it's more likely that TiM and Shep (Renegade) just don't see eye to eye on who's leading and making decisions.  It really doesn't have to be much more than that - both are Type A personalities and TiM is completely ruthless.

Both TIM and either Shepard would have to be total idiots to choose to fight eachother instead of working together to deal with the reapers.

But now that I've seen this information, I'm expecting BioWare to do some major asspulling in order to justify making TIM/Cerberus an enemy. Unfortunately I have no confidence in their writing ability.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 09 avril 2011 - 02:30 .

[Volus Warlord]

TIM wants to nail him.

[Almostfaceman]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

(see dialogue from game I posted above)

I just think it's more likely that TiM and Shep (Renegade) just don't see eye to eye on who's leading and making decisions.  It really doesn't have to be much more than that - both are Type A personalities and TiM is completely ruthless.

Both TIM and either Shepard would have to be total idiots to choose to fight eachother instead of working together to deal with the reapers.

But now that I've seen this information, I'm expecting BioWare to do some major asspulling in order to justify making TIM/Cerberus an enemy. Unfortunately I have no confidence in their writing ability.

Well there's a sure cure for not having to go through that - don't buy the game. 

[Casuist]

Inverness Moon wrote...

But now that I've seen this information, I'm expecting BioWare to do some major asspulling in order to justify making TIM/Cerberus an enemy. Unfortunately I have no confidence in their writing ability.

Sure... TIM would NEVER EVER try to kill shepard again.

Please don't use "bad writing" as a substitute for "it doesn't fit my perceptions."