331 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr. Nexas]

Simple. Cerberus is run by idiots.

[xzxzxz701]

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Simple. Cerberus is run by idiots.

Those "idiots" brought Shepard back to life, and control major sections of the Alliance.

[Dr. Nexas]

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Simple. Cerberus is run by idiots.

Those "idiots" brought Shepard back to life, and control major sections of the Alliance.

And now they're trying to kill him. Hence being idiots.

[Comrade Goby]

Good see the whole plot of ME2 is pointless for my Renegade Shepard. I sided with Cerberus at every opportunity and agree with all their goals and methods.

Nope KANT HAVE THAT GO ALLIANCE YAY ALIENS

[Inverness Moon]

Casuist wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

But now that I've seen this information, I'm expecting BioWare to do some major asspulling in order to justify making TIM/Cerberus an enemy. Unfortunately I have no confidence in their writing ability.

Sure... TIM would NEVER EVER try to kill shepard again.

Please don't use "bad writing" as a substitute for "it doesn't fit my perceptions." 

Please have some common sense. TIM going after Shepard while the reapers are still a threat makes no sense.

Whether TIM wanted to kill Shepard before or might decide afterwards is irrelevant.

[xzxzxz701]

Dr. Nexas wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Simple. Cerberus is run by idiots.

Those "idiots" brought Shepard back to life, and control major sections of the Alliance.

And now they're trying to kill him. Hence being idiots.

Which we don't know why they are. For all we know Shep could have tried to kill TIM first, or Shep might be indoctrinated.

[Dr. Nexas]

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Simple. Cerberus is run by idiots.

Those "idiots" brought Shepard back to life, and control major sections of the Alliance.

And now they're trying to kill him. Hence being idiots.

Which we don't know why they are. For all we know Shep could have tried to kill TIM first, or Shep might be indoctrinated.

If anyone is indoctrinated it would be TIM. He's the one with Reaper tech in him.

[xzxzxz701]

Dr. Nexas wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Simple. Cerberus is run by idiots.

Those "idiots" brought Shepard back to life, and control major sections of the Alliance.

And now they're trying to kill him. Hence being idiots.

Which we don't know why they are. For all we know Shep could have tried to kill TIM first, or Shep might be indoctrinated.

If anyone is indoctrinated it would be TIM. He's the one with Reaper tech in him.

Who has spent most of his free time running around dead Reapers and fighting at a Reaper object that indoctrinated an entire base, and who is speculated to have been ressurected with Reaper tech? Oh yeah thats right, Shepard.

[Inverness Moon]

Dr. Nexas wrote...

If anyone is indoctrinated it would be TIM. He's the one with Reaper tech in him.

Did you not notice the similarities between TIM's and Shepard's eyes? 

More seriously though, I disagree with the whole idea that ANY reaper tech can indoctrinate no matter what it is.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 09 avril 2011 - 03:03 .

[Digifi]

I've got a feeling this could be more of a red herring than anything else. If you read Retribution, TIM is willing to set aside that Anderson and Sanders helped attack Cerberus, so what would make Shepard any different (if you're paragon). There's the potential that this is part plot device to justify to other races that you're "not with Cerberus". TIM could even be the one to set this plan in motion without telling you, "plausible denial". As Garrus said "a few concussive rounds so they wouldn't get suspicious".

[Inverness Moon]

Digifi wrote...

I've got a feeling this could be more of a red herring than anything else. If you read Retribution, TIM is willing to set aside that Anderson and Sanders helped attack Cerberus, so what would make Shepard any different (if you're paragon). There's the potential that this is part plot device to justify to other races that you're "not with Cerberus". TIM could even be the one to set this plan in motion without telling you, "plausible denial". As Garrus said "a few concussive rounds so they wouldn't get suspicious".

That is a plausible explanation, but if it were true, it would just underscore how stupid the galaxy is if they're fretting about Shepard's association with Cerberus when the evidence of its necessity is currently destroying the Earth.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 09 avril 2011 - 03:05 .

[Sesshomaru47]

Because I blew up the base, told him to stick it, stole his fancy ship and his 2 employees and passed any Cerberus related Intel to the Alliance. But who knows what the actual reason is.

[Dr. Nexas]

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Simple. Cerberus is run by idiots.

Those "idiots" brought Shepard back to life, and control major sections of the Alliance.

And now they're trying to kill him. Hence being idiots.

Which we don't know why they are. For all we know Shep could have tried to kill TIM first, or Shep might be indoctrinated.

If anyone is indoctrinated it would be TIM. He's the one with Reaper tech in him.

Who has spent most of his free time running around dead Reapers and fighting at a Reaper object that indoctrinated an entire base, and who is speculated to have been ressurected with Reaper tech? Oh yeah thats right, Shepard.

Key word: speculated. TIM was confirmed to have Reaper tech in him.

[Inverness Moon]

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Key word: speculated. TIM was confirmed to have Reaper tech in him.

That is irrelevant unless you're suggesting that any sort of reaper tech can indoctrinate, which is not a logical assumption to make.

[Dr. Nexas]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Key word: speculated. TIM was confirmed to have Reaper tech in him.

That is irrelevant unless you're suggesting that any sort of reaper tech can indoctrinate, which is not a logical assumption to make.

Considering thats what it did to the other people who touched it, its a perfectly logical assumption to make.

[Inverness Moon]

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Considering thats what it did to the other people who touched it, its a perfectly logical assumption to make.

Your logic doesn't seem to consider the Citadel and mass relays, neither of which have been known to indoctrinate. The reasoning for that is obvious, and why your logic is flawed. Reapers indoctrinate because they're designed to contain and indoctrinate crews from their missions to exterminate/harvest life. Dragon's teeth apparently indoctrinate because they're design to infect and convert organics into husks. That doesn't mean you get to claim that every bit of reaper technology, indoctrinates. That is certainly not logical.

Some people seem to be under the impression that reaper technology is magic or something, it's very irritating.

[Casuist]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Please have some common sense. TIM going after Shepard while the reapers are still a threat makes no sense.

Whether TIM wanted to kill Shepard before or might decide afterwards is irrelevant.

TIM's character is quite relevant.

TIM going after Shepard, as I stated before, requires only that he believe doing so forwards his agenda in one way or another. If TIM thought that he could forward a cause of human supremacy by screwing over Shepard, he would do it. If he felt Shepard was getting in the way of measures Cerberus itself was taking against the invasion, he'd do it.

Many on the forums believe the reapers cannot be defeated without Shepard (for good reason... we're metagaming after all). TIM is NOT party to this assumption, and he has no personal interest in Shepard's continuing prosperity beyond what it can do for him.

Of course, we're lacking the specific context of the decision (and, for that matter, TIM making any move against shepard at all is only an assumption and likely will stay that way until we have the game)... but it's pretty clear that it doesn't take any kind of literary contortions to change TIM and Cerberus from an evil, human supremacist, shepard-killing organization into an evil, human supremacist, shepard-killing organization. Even renegade shepard has to acknowledge ME2 is a marriage of convenience and mutual benefit.

[Almostfaceman]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Considering thats what it did to the other people who touched it, its a perfectly logical assumption to make.

Your logic doesn't seem to consider the Citadel and mass relays, neither of which have been known to indoctrinate. The reasoning for that is obvious, and why your logic is flawed. Reapers indoctrinate because they're designed to contain and indoctrinate crews from their missions to exterminate/harvest life. Dragon's teeth apparently indoctrinate because they're design to infect and convert organics into husks. That doesn't mean you get to claim that every bit of reaper technology, indoctrinates. That is certainly not logical.

Some people seem to be under the impression that reaper technology is magic or something, it's very irritating.

Nobody is saying that every bit of Reaper tech indoctrinates - they're just saying it's logical to be aware that Reaper tech has indoctrinated and that it's a possibility that TiM has been indoctrinated by the Reaper tech inside him.

[Marta Rio]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Marta Rio wrote...

I've always figured that TIM was ultimately going to side with the Reapers, because the Reapers offer humanity the chance to achieve god-like status.  Sort of the ultimate way to assure human dominance in the galaxy (even if it's some altered form of humanity).  I think I posted this in the forums, and then was shot down because "No, TIM hates the Reapers and would never ever side with them." 

In light of this new information, maybe TIM is coming around to the Reapers' way of thinking.  Or they offer him some sort of deal - e.g. he gets to keep some form of consciousness in a new Reaper body.   It would be interesting to have a character that buys into what the Reapers are doing without being indoctrinated (although I'm not sure TIM's the right character for this).

This seems like a silly explanation to me. In my opinion, TIM is about as likely to take up that offer as Shepard. What you're suggesting would only make sense of TIM was a collossal idiot, which he isn't. The reapers wouldn't offer deals either, and TIM would be a fool to believe such an offer is genuine.

Yeah, any deal would probably cause a few eyes to roll.  But I suspect we'll probably see a scene in ME3 where the Reapers offer humanity (and possibly Shepard in particular) the chance to become "something infinitely greater".  They were already trying to do this in ME2, and the 3rd novel strongly hints at this as well.

I could see TIM finding this idea somewhat attractive, since he's always desired for humanity to be number one, (although I think you could argue that TIM wouldn't see god-like Reaper-humans as human anymore).  Especially if humanity is getting its ass handed to it during the invasion, and apotheosis seems like a better alternative to utter annihilation.  I could see some people's Shep's being drawn to this idea as well, depending on how they're being role-played.  Who wouldn't want to become a god, really?

Anyway, that was just my idea for why TIM might be trying to hunt down/otherwise impede Shepard.  I don't like the indoctrination angle because we've seen it so many times already.  I don't like the "Cerberus is full of idiots"/"Cerberus is full of bad guys" angle because I think that's too simple.  So I'm hoping for something a bit different to explain why TIM would suddenly want to stop Shepard.

[Dr. Nexas]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Considering thats what it did to the other people who touched it, its a perfectly logical assumption to make.

Your logic doesn't seem to consider the Citadel and mass relays, neither of which have been known to indoctrinate. The reasoning for that is obvious, and why your logic is flawed. Reapers indoctrinate because they're designed to contain and indoctrinate crews from their missions to exterminate/harvest life. Dragon's teeth apparently indoctrinate because they're design to infect and convert organics into husks. That doesn't mean you get to claim that every bit of reaper technology, indoctrinates. That is certainly not logical.

Some people seem to be under the impression that reaper technology is magic or something, it's very irritating.

I'm not sure you're following me. TIM touched a specific piece of Reaper technology that was specifcally shown to indoctrinate people and turn them into something resembling husks.

[twisty77]

I didn't take the time to read all 5 pages so if this is already in here I apologize...


Once Joker unshackled EDI, Shepherd has access to ALL of Cerberus' info. Their investments, staffing, personnel info, etc... One has to wonder if TIM purposefully put Cerberus' info in EDI, thinking that EDI would never be unshackled... I also like the idea of the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread:

Base destroyed: TIM pissed
Base saved: TIM indoctrinated

Now I can't think that it would be that simple, but it does seem likely. We know for sure that if the base is destroyed and Shep ops for a straight Paragon ending, basically telling TIM to go play "hide and go f*** yourself", that TIM is super pissed. Obviously wanting to kill Shep in that case. However, this doesn't fit into Cerberus' "humanity first at all cost" philosiphy. While TIM may be pissed at Shep, he is still humanity's best chance at taking down the Reapers and, in TIM's own words, "Securing human dominance in the galaxy". It is puzzling, to say the least...

It's been a while since I've played a Renegade Shep, I don't remember the conversation options aside from you saving the base. Maybe someone else can shed some light on this one...

[Almostfaceman]

twisty77 wrote...

I didn't take the time to read all 5 pages so if this is already in here I apologize...


Once Joker unshackled EDI, Shepherd has access to ALL of Cerberus' info. Their investments, staffing, personnel info, etc... One has to wonder if TIM purposefully put Cerberus' info in EDI, thinking that EDI would never be unshackled... I also like the idea of the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread:

Base destroyed: TIM pissed
Base saved: TIM indoctrinated

Now I can't think that it would be that simple, but it does seem likely. We know for sure that if the base is destroyed and Shep ops for a straight Paragon ending, basically telling TIM to go play "hide and go f*** yourself", that TIM is super pissed. Obviously wanting to kill Shep in that case. However, this doesn't fit into Cerberus' "humanity first at all cost" philosiphy. While TIM may be pissed at Shep, he is still humanity's best chance at taking down the Reapers and, in TIM's own words, "Securing human dominance in the galaxy". It is puzzling, to say the least...

It's been a while since I've played a Renegade Shep, I don't remember the conversation options aside from you saving the base. Maybe someone else can shed some light on this one...

Yah, the last conversation with a Renegade and TiM has them butting-heads about who's in charge.  I seriously doubt when it comes right down to it TiM is going to abide anyone running the show besides himself.

Tim: Shepard, it's a new day and we have you to thank for our deliverance.

Shepard: Don't try to flatter me - We did the right thing, you don't need to try and make me feel good about it.

Tim: Always willing to do whatever it takes, well, it's paid off.  Adapting the technology of the Collector base could be the biggest advancement for human kind since the discovery of the relays.  It will secure our dominance in the galaxy against the Reapers and beyond.

Shepard: Human dominance? Or just Cerberus?

Tim: They're one and the same my mission has always been to promote and secure humanity's continued strength.  Don't let idealism blind you.  Using the base to its fullest potential is the best way to fulfill ours.

Shepard: That base won't win the war - Just remember, the Reapers are still out there, Harbinger is coming and you can bet he won't be alone.  You get selfish you start dreaming about power and we'll all pay the price.

Tim: Don't presume to judge me or my methods.  Cerberus will be ready to face the Reapers.

Shepard: You better be - You brought me back to lead this war and that's what I'm going to do, if you can keep up, great.  If not, I'll stop the Reapers without you.

[aimlessgun]

Digifi wrote...

I've got a feeling this could be more of a red herring than anything else. If you read Retribution, TIM is willing to set aside that Anderson and Sanders helped attack Cerberus, so what would make Shepard any different (if you're paragon). There's the potential that this is part plot device to justify to other races that you're "not with Cerberus". TIM could even be the one to set this plan in motion without telling you, "plausible denial". As Garrus said "a few concussive rounds so they wouldn't get suspicious".

Another interesting idea that makes sense.