331 réponses à ce sujet

[ErebUs890]

michaelrsa wrote...

Honestly, the Council is the only organization that is realistic in my books. Wanting hard evidence that the Reapers exist instead of out right believing a man who saw them in a vision and claims that a single dreadnought is proof of a massive invasion force sitting on the edge of the galaxy?

That's the way a government is supposed to work.

Eh, I guess... But after the battle against Sovereign, you would think they would have at least a little more trust in their own spectre...

[karatemanchan37]

ErebUs890 wrote...

michaelrsa wrote...

Honestly, the Council is the only organization that is realistic in my books. Wanting hard evidence that the Reapers exist instead of out right believing a man who saw them in a vision and claims that a single dreadnought is proof of a massive invasion force sitting on the edge of the galaxy?

That's the way a government is supposed to work.

Eh, I guess... But after the battle against Sovereign, you would think they would have at least a little more trust in their own spectre...

That - and I think they were more concerned with politics than justice. How exactly can Saren singlehandedly control thousands of geth and Soverign at the same time?

[GodWood]

michaelrsa wrote...

GodWood wrote...
They're also incredibly racist.

Against the species that has gained a tremendous amount of power in the galaxy in the short span of thirty years?
Can't imagine why.

When I typed that I wasn't even thinking of humans.

[drak4806.2]

I think that part of Cerberus went rouge and wants Shepard dead for some reason or that they're worried that Shepard will try to stop them from using their dangerous method of dealing with the Reapers.

[GodWood]

michaelrsa wrote...

GodWood wrote...
When I typed that I wasn't even thinking of humans.

Who specifically?
I can't really think of any time they've really seemed racist beyond a tiny bit with the humans.

All the 'lesser species' who have no say in galactic politics, whose interests are second to that of the council races and who are held in place because of their smaller military numbers.

[Cancer Puppet]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but if you look at one of the screenshots from the GI article you'll see a lone armored figure crouching in a room with broken glass falling from overhead. If you look carefully you will see that the object he is on is a bed, and the room he is in is Shepard's quarters aboard the Normandy. Looks like Cerberus is gonna be knocking on your door. Epic!

Modifié par Cancer Puppet, 11 avril 2011 - 04:57 .

[ErebUs890]

michaelrsa wrote...

ErebUs890 wrote...
Eh, I guess... But after the battle against Sovereign, you would think they would have at least a little more trust in their own spectre...

You know how in court they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that something is true?

Don't you think that if Shepard is asking the council to build up the galactic military to the likes never seen before they'd want proof beyond a reasonable doubt?

What if Shepard had been crazy and Soverign had been an isolated incident?

Now they have this massive military that took a massive hit out of the galactic economy. How long before the economy collapses entirely?

Even so, they should at least be a little concerned. Instead of just saying "Sorry Shepard, you're wrong."

[GodWood]

michaelrsa wrote...

GodWood wrote...
All the 'lesser species' who have no say in galactic politics, whose interests are second to that of the council races and who are held in place because of their smaller military numbers.

I've always seen the Council as the galactic equivilant of the UN Security Council.

And I see them more comparable to the Athenian Delian League. Sure on the surface it appears that they're looking out for everyone's interests but in reality all they're doing is securing their own power, primarily serving their own species interests and keeping everyone else in line through raw military strength and numbers.

The other species haven't exactly been left to rot either. The Volus have gained tremendous amount of territory since joining the Citadel.

The volus have been part of the Citadel for over 2500 years and at most they only have a shared embassy with the elcor.
It's only under the human dominated council that they truly start to gain some power and territory.

Ultimately, the Council exists to maintain galactic stability. They've done it for thousand of years so I can't really call them failures.

Two galactic wide wars, a genocide, a genophaging, leaving 99% of an entire species to die, abandoning the survivors and than doing nothing to combat what wiped them out...

Modifié par GodWood, 11 avril 2011 - 05:27 .

[Tamahome560]

ErebUs890 wrote...

michaelrsa wrote...

Honestly, the Council is the only organization that is realistic in my books. Wanting hard evidence that the Reapers exist instead of out right believing a man who saw them in a vision and claims that a single dreadnought is proof of a massive invasion force sitting on the edge of the galaxy?

That's the way a government is supposed to work.

Eh, I guess... But after the battle against Sovereign, you would think they would have at least a little more trust in their own spectre...

Isn't them sending Shepard into Terminus Systems and giving him 100% freedom on what he does there not a sign of trust? In ME1 they grounded Shep before he even suggested going into Terminus. Now they are OK with giving their best and most famous agent a free pass to go there and do whatever he plans to do. And they know that when Shepard is up to something it usually ends with massive explosions and/or large number of casualties e.g. Virmire and specifically say in ME1 that his style is not suited for Terminus Systems yet in ME2 they do trust him even though they know how he works and that he is working with a terrorist organisation. While they may not be seeing the whole picture they do believe in what Shep does. If they didn't he would get locked up the second he arrived at the Citadel and charged with treason.

[Dean_the_Young]

michaelrsa wrote...


I've always seen the Council as the galactic equivilant of the UN Security Council.

The setup of the UN Security Council is only just if you're on it. If you're on the outside... well, they can completely agree with what you said, without at all implying that being like the UN Security Council is at all a good thing.

[Dean_the_Young]

Of course we can. Especially if we aren't members, and our interests aren't supported.

Heck, it was only an accident of history which saw China get included. Otherwise, the UNSC would have been the rich white man's club in a world in which the rich white men are a distinct minority.

[Moiaussi]

[quote]GodWood wrote...

I've always seen the Council as the galactic equivilant of the UN Security Council.[/quote]And I see them more comparable to the Athenian Delian League. Sure on the surface it appears that they're looking out for everyone's interests but in reality all they're doing is securing their own power, primarily serving their own species interests and keeping everyone else in line through raw military strength and numbers.[/quote]

Exactly whose interests should they serve? And any race can choose to leave. This isn't Earth politics where we are basicly limited to this planet's real estate. Most of the galaxy is unexplored. Council space doesn't even represent a a quarter of the galaxy.

The Batarians left of their own free choice and are still surviving. They are likely not doing as well as if they had the full trade rights with the Council that those who have accepted the limitations of associate status, but that is their choice, and it is allowed freely.

[quote]The volus have been part of the Citadel for over 2500 years and at most they only have a shared embassy with the elcor. It's only under the human dominated council that they truly start to gain some power and territory.[/quote]

Embassy space does not equate to real territory, and Volus 'power' is not really completely visible either. As for 2500 years, human civilization has been around on Earth for longer and there are appearantly still nations. It is a safe bet they don't all have equal power. Given they have different population levels and population distributions, how could you achieve any perfect balance between power and population? Should small nations or empires with fewer members have the power to act as equals against larger ones, or against nations or empires contributing more to the common defence? By virtue of the arrangement the Volus have made with the Turians, they have limited any expansion to what the Turian government is willing to accept. That is the choice of the Volus. There is no Council edict limiting them in that fashion. In fact, they might even be able to have their own fleet and to hire the Turians in addition. It is not a given that the treaty anticipated that kind of arrangement.

[quote]Two galactic wide wars, a genocide, a genophaging, leaving 99% of an entire species to die, abandoning the survivors and than doing nothing to combat what wiped them out...[/quote]

Hmmm.... So the Council are guilty of the Rachni having been xenophobic or the Krogan to be expansionistic? And I suppose the rest of the world forced Napoleon to expand France, or Hitler to expand Germany, or any other war that has happened ever?

The Quarians did entirely create their own situation (the Quarians started that war) and we don't know what the Council's deployment levels were at the time, mobilization limits, relative Geth strength, etc.

And getting back on topic, how is Cerberus any better? There are much better links between the Council's major choices and immediate neccessity than there are between any of Cerberus' choices (inlcuding bringing Shepard back!) and any level of neccessity.

[Moiaussi]

It is as dangerous to assume that Cerberus is rational as it is to assume that the ME related writing will be pulizer winning. Regardless of how any given one of us feels about Cerberus it is not a given that the writers will take any of this as seriously as we do.

Isn't the full quote regarding RPG elements in ME3 something along the lines of "there will be more RPG elements, but not as much as in ME1"?

Modifié par Moiaussi, 11 avril 2011 - 04:33 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

They feel so terrible about all the bad things that they've done that they want Shepard to kill them all.

Why else would anyone willingly go after Shepard after everything he's done?

[Almostfaceman]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

They feel so terrible about all the bad things that they've done that they want Shepard to kill them all.

Why else would anyone willingly go after Shepard after everything he's done?

QFT 

[Zulu_DFA]

Has anybody thought that maybe Cerberus' change of stance on Shepard may be related to something Dr. Warren has found in that "secret chamber" on Mars recently?

CDN of 01/10/11

Controversy brews tonight as scientists on Mars assess the contents of a newly opened chamber in the Prothean ruins. The opening has been a dream of exoarchaeologists for decades, delayed by the many steps necessary to replicate Prothean code keys and crack the cryptography for entry. Critics say the Milky Way Foundation, which provided supercomputers for the cryptanalysis, could hoard any Prothean discoveries. Dr. Unira T’Lam, liaison from the Citadel Committee on Paleotechnology, says she’s been kept in the dark. “Foundation personnel have orchestrated a security system that keeps out everyone except a select cabal,” she accuses. “Anything could be taken from inside and we’d never know.” Dr. Ilsa Warren, who heads the analysis unit, dismisses the allegation. “We’ve made it clear all technology stays in situ throughout the cataloging and analysis process, which could take years,” she says. “Dr. T’Lam’s fears would be more appropriate closer to the end of the decade.”

[ExtremeOne]

Aelia wrote...

My theory from another thread:

Well, since LotSB is bridging DLC it makes sense that it was not created as a throwaway, but rather to further the plot of ME3. I suspect BW had a good reason for installing her in this position and will have a good reason for modifying it. My personal theory on this is akin to Akizora's only it won't be the reapers that threatens Liara's network... it will be Cerberus. Seems to me that the SB's network would be something TIM would covet and feel was vital to further human supremacy (can't leave it in the hands of an alien).

Further, this would explain Cerberus' reversal with regard to Shep... since most likely even renegade Shep is going to come to Liara's rescue. Since Cerberus knows where she is, Liara does indeed transfer her network to the Normandy giving Shep immediate access to a resource Shep wouldn't otherwise have. From a storytelling perspective this has the additional benefit of being able to ligitimately provide Shep information from across the galaxy that Cerberus, the Aliance, the Council, etc. etc. alone would not have access to and/or would not be willing to provide Shep for various political reasons. Shep would then be completely autonomous and free to act in the way she sees best.

<shrug> Just a thought.
-A

  



why would a renegade Shepard save Liara I mean hell Shepard is being put on trail and how we know that the Alliance has forced people like Liara take part in the trail. No My Shepard can not trust her and plus he never cared for her anyway 

[ExtremeOne]

Cancer Puppet wrote...

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but if you look at one of the screenshots from the GI article you'll see a lone armored figure crouching in a room with broken glass falling from overhead. If you look carefully you will see that the object he is on is a bed, and the room he is in is Shepard's quarters aboard the Normandy. Looks like Cerberus is gonna be knocking on your door. Epic!

  


good and I hope I can rejoin Cerberus and bring the Normandy back to TIM 

[AdmiralCheez]

ExtremeOne wrote...

why would a renegade Shepard save Liara I mean hell Shepard is being put on trail and how we know that the Alliance has forced people like Liara take part in the trail. No My Shepard can not trust her and plus he never cared for her anyway

The writers like to assume that everyone loves Liara.  At this point, I'm just considering it a trait of Shepard that I can't control rather than b*tching about how that damn asari's the author's pet.