191 réponses à ce sujet

[Danjaru]

AnimeAngel90 wrote...

Well, we've seen how correct epilogue slides about other characters can be with Origins and Awakenings epilogues contradicting each other and contradicting DA2 (I don't think Anders really stayed with the Wardens now did he?). Clearly some sort of sequel or at least DLC is coming, and they probably don't want to create some silly sum up of all the characters that then restricts what they can do in the future?
Plus, you know, this is Varric telling the story. He's telling the important bits, thus why the game skips years and sometimes contradicts itself (Varric suddenly becomes a One Man Army, etc). He is telling Hawke's story, and you are playing the story that he's telling. We knew from the beginning that Cassandra was looking for Hawke, and Varric basically told us why. That's an ending. All the little extra things you want - sure they would be nice, but why restrict us to one particular ending? Maybe Hawke runs off with Anders. Or Isabela. Or Cullen. Or uses the Black Emporium mirror to change their face and is secretely living in Hightown all along. Maybe Hawke is hiding behind Varric's chair the whole time. If all the characters are slotted into some sort of final ending i.e. "Isabela did this and this and then Fenris went here and Merrill did this", people would just get all annoyed because of it. And if they gave some sort of slide about Hawke's future, I'm sure there would be massive outrage as well. Maybe Hawke ran off into the sunset with the Warden, leaving a trail of broken hearts behind them. Hawke's story in Kirkwall, to become Kirkwall's Champion - that story has been told, and ended.
Also, if any writer ever gives someone all the answers, you lose interest in the story because you know everything. There's no speculation at all, and that's honestly half the fun!

You're just highlighting what I hated about the ending. Saying things like "obviously they're closing it up with DLC's and Expansions" is a slap in the face. That's pretty much telling us "you've spend 60 dollars, 40+ hours in our game, but if you want to know what happens in the end, pay more".

Hawke's story was 3 years before Varric was taken. It wouldn't kill them to do an epilogue of the immidiate future or about a month later, they'd still have roughly 3 years to work with for standalone DLC's and expansions. It's not an excuse to say "the ending is in DLC" instead it's just that fact that some people (like me) absolutely hate about it.

Again, instead of giving us a real payoff, they punish us by saying "pay more if you're a real fan".

Now I'm not complaining about standalone DLC's and expansions, I bought most of Origins DLCs and found GOA a real good piece of content. But the only one that was a tie in with Origins was the absolute worst (Witch Hunt) where they even have the balls to give us more questions instead of answers.

Standalone expansions and DLCs are a nice thing for junkies of the franchise like me. But explicitly telling us after a 40+ hour investment that our answers will come in form of DLC's and Expansions is unacceptable.

Modifié par Danjaru, 09 avril 2011 - 03:20 .

[MCPOWill]

Ok, so who is Fiona?

[Augustei]

David Gaider wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...
Well, its clear that choices made in the first game simply don't mater.

Because if not every choice matters, that means none of them do. Clearly.

Damn Straight!

[Camenae]

MCPOWill wrote...


Ok, so who is Fiona?

In the DA tie-in novel, The Calling, Fiona is an Orlesian elven mage and Grey Warden.  She slept with King Maric and had a baby boy.  There has been much speculation about whether or not this baby is Alistair.

[Fireblader70]

David Gaider wrote...

a) Wanting to know what happens next is not a "cliffhanger".

I recognize that you mean you wanted more closure. Personally I don't think that's what endings are all about, but I get that you wanted it.

c) Thank you for being so personally involved so as to rant. I'll take flaily rants over apathy any day.

I think the general idea behind these 'rants' stem from the fact that Dragon Age 2 is an RPG. Now I understand people have differing views on what an 'RPG' is, but most would agree on the idea that it involves you being immersed completely into the fictional world one way or another.
Now, with Dragon Age 2, the immersion seems to have been pulled back just slightly in favour of cinematic presentation and overall style. it may not have been intentional, but that is how it is presented. The main reason for this is the time skipping every three years. Not knowing what you (in the fictional world) was doing for those three years can be quite confusing, and I would compare it to the movie 'Click'. So by the time some people get to the finale, and there is not much closure at all on what happened after the 'last boss', they feel disappointed and confused once again. After all, they were expecting to completely control the character they created.
A framed narrative is therefore (in my opinion) suited for ordinary games and not RPGs. That's me speaking as a writer.

So although I respect your opinion that endings aren't all about closure, for a game like this it tends to work better if there is. Of course, not everyone feels this way.
Just some constructive criticism there. Don't get me wrong, I do like the overall story and game of Dragon Age 2!

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

namedforthemoon wrote...

Elessara wrote...

Heh ... see that's just it. Some people want a new character every game. Some people don't.

I'm in the camp that doesn't want a new character every game. I feel more involved with a series if I'm playing the same character and I get to import that character to the next game. It's a kind of continuity if you will.

I'm not saying I won't play Dragon Age 3 if there is a new protagonist. I played DA2 and there was a new char so I'll play DA3 as I enjoyed DA2 enough that I want to find out what happens next. I also don't know that what Hawke did in DA2 was truly sufficient to call him/her the most important character in the Dragon Age what with all of the foreshadowing of bigger things to come.

I seem to recall one of the Devs, Gaider or Priestly, or maybe Laidlaw, saying that Hawke was more important to Thedas than the Warden. Which really sets my head spinning.

If that's the case Thedas is in trouble.

[The Angry One]

If you look at DA2 being Hawke's origin story, then Hawke is vastly more important.
Did the Warden's origin take seven years? No! Hawke's story is just that massive, man. She's going places.

[hanoobken]

Personally what I'd love to see in the Dragon Age series is Hawke and my Warden meeting up somewhere in the future to fight an even greater threat than the 5th blight.

Let's say at one point you play Hawke to complete a particular part of the story... then the story goes something like... "In the meantime Warden was battle bla bla bla... and you switch to play the warden, and so on...

Then at a given point you get to choose whether you wanna play your warden or Hawke to finish off the story..

Alternating between your 2 heroes should be fun, of course Bioware will have to pay attention to our imported save games

What do you think?

[The Angry One]

I personally loathe games that force jump you between characters.
Character selection is okay, but jumping just ruins immersion.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

It wouldn't work anyways. Warden would have to be silent.

[hanoobken]

The Angry One wrote...

I personally loathe games that force jump you between characters.
Character selection is okay, but jumping just ruins immersion.

Not if the story is compelling

It'll also tie up a lot of the loose ends, I do believe that the disappearance of both heroes are connected.. they have to meet at some point in my opinion.

Oh well that's just me

[hanoobken]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

It wouldn't work anyways. Warden would have to be silent.

Why would the warden have to be silent?  Your dialogue choices can't be put into words? C'maan... think big

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

hanoobken wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

It wouldn't work anyways. Warden would have to be silent.

Why would the warden have to be silent?  Your dialogue choices can't be put into words? C'maan... think big

Because all of us who have played Origins already have a voice for our Warden.

[The Angry One]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

hanoobken wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

It wouldn't work anyways. Warden would have to be silent.

Why would the warden have to be silent?  Your dialogue choices can't be put into words? C'maan... think big

Because all of us who have played Origins already have a voice for our Warden.

That and BioWare would have to hire:

2 VAs for the human noble/human mage.
2 VAs for the city elf/elf mage.
2 VAs for the Dalish elf.
2 VAs for the dwarf.
2 VAs for the Orlesian warden.

[hanoobken]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

hanoobken wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

It wouldn't work anyways. Warden would have to be silent.

Why would the warden have to be silent?  Your dialogue choices can't be put into words? C'maan... think big

Because all of us who have played Origins already have a voice for our Warden.

Yeah in our heads.  Would it be so bad to actually have a real voice for it?  For every race you get a male and female voice over, and Bioware do seem to get a lot of quality VA's.

Would you be content to play your warden once more without a voice in a new story?  Or would you be content with never seeing your warden again?  Just read in some codex that the hero of Ferelden did this and that... that'd be... lame...

[Xewaka]

Danjaru wrote...
Actually, the "final conflict" was just the start of the war not the "final conflict".
I never said it was a cliffhanger. Said it was an unsatisfactory ending.
And I guess not even knowing basic things like "what happened to Hawke's companions and friends" is part of the hook as well? so we're going to see All of them in DA3?

Why is it important to know what happened to them after the story is concluded?
I do not think that a "happily ever after" is a requirement of every piece of fiction. As a matter of fact, most pieces of fiction do not benefit from it.

hanoobken wrote...
Yeah in our heads.  Would it be so bad to actually have a real voice for it?  For every race you get a male and
female voice over, and Bioware do seem to get a lot of quality VA's.

Yes, it would be very bad. Specially if they go for triple the budget in VA, as that budget is much better spent elsewhere. We already got a cut enough product in DA 2, as the repetitive dungeons and disjointed wave combat proved.

hanoobken wrote...
Would you be content to play your warden once more without a voice in a new story?  Or would you be content with never seeing your warden again?  Just read in some codex that the hero of Ferelden did this and that... that'd be... lame...

If silent protagonist is the way to get back full lines and get rid of the misleading, lying, cheating implement that is the paraphrase wheel, I wouldn't be content; I'd be ecstatic.

Modifié par Xewaka, 09 avril 2011 - 09:16 .

[Danjaru]

The Angry One wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

hanoobken wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

It wouldn't work anyways. Warden would have to be silent.

Why would the warden have to be silent?  Your dialogue choices can't be put into words? C'maan... think big

Because all of us who have played Origins already have a voice for our Warden.

That and BioWare would have to hire:

2 VAs for the human noble/human mage.
2 VAs for the city elf/elf mage.
2 VAs for the Dalish elf.
2 VAs for the dwarf.
2 VAs for the Orlesian warden.

Or they could just give him/her a Ferelden accent. I don't know how important it would be to have Your Wardens voice as he barely spoke.

The one thing out of my 4 playthroughs of Origins the one thing I remember one of my Wardens saying was "Can I get you a ladder, so you can get off my back?" and personally I wouldn't mind them having any of the others.

Then they could be nifty to put in Elven lines and Dwarven lines to if they were that. Things like "by the maker" from a human would become "by the ancestors" for Dwarves and "by the dread wolf" for elves or something. I don't think the outrage would be very big if they did that.

Modifié par Danjaru, 09 avril 2011 - 09:14 .

[CerealWar]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

hanoobken wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

It wouldn't work anyways. Warden would have to be silent.

Why would the warden have to be silent?  Your dialogue choices can't be put into words? C'maan... think big

Because all of us who have played Origins already have a voice for our Warden.

Male Dwarf Noble, Male Casteless, Male Human Noble, Male Human Mage, Male City Elf, Male Dalish Elf, Male Elf Mage, Female Dwarf Noble, Female Casteless, Female Human Noble, Female Human Mage, Female City Elf, Female Dalish Elf, Female Elf Mage.

These are the reasons for an unvoiced warden. Although, you could be frugal and use one voice actor for multiple voices. But then said voice actor would probably go insane. If they kept the companion dialogue system from DA2/ Awakening, which results in everyone having relatively fewer lines spoken, you could have a warden npc.

Modifié par CerealWar, 09 avril 2011 - 09:16 .

[The Angry One]

CerealWar wrote...

These are the reasons for an unvoiced warden. Although, you could be frugal and use one voice actor for multiple voices. But then said voice actor would probably go insane.

Hell, that happened to manHawke's actor just for that one role. And the result was Xenon.

On second thoughts, let's do it.

Modifié par The Angry One, 09 avril 2011 - 09:20 .

[hanoobken]

CerealWar wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

hanoobken wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

It wouldn't work anyways. Warden would have to be silent.

Why would the warden have to be silent?  Your dialogue choices can't be put into words? C'maan... think big

Because all of us who have played Origins already have a voice for our Warden.

Male Dwarf Noble, Male Casteless, Male Human Noble, Male Human Mage, Male City Elf, Male Dalish Elf, Male Elf Mage, Female Dwarf Noble, Female Casteless, Female Human Noble, Female Human Mage, Female City Elf, Female Dalish Elf, Female Elf Mage.

These are the reasons for an unvoiced warden. Although, you could be frugal and use one voice actor for multiple voices. But then said voice actor would probably go insane. If they kept the companion dialogue system from DA2/ Awakening, which results in everyone having relatively fewer lines spoken, you could have a warden npc.

So basically what you are saying is that Bioware is either too lazy to take on such a huge project, or Bioware doesn't have the funds for it.  Honestly, if they produce such an epic game, would the cost actually stop hardcore fans from buying the game?  I think not.

[Xewaka]

hanoobken wrote...

CerealWar wrote...
Male Dwarf Noble, Male Casteless, Male Human Noble, Male Human Mage, Male City Elf, Male Dalish Elf, Male Elf Mage, Female Dwarf Noble, Female Casteless, Female Human Noble, Female Human Mage, Female City Elf, Female Dalish Elf, Female Elf Mage.
These are the reasons for an unvoiced warden. Although, you could be frugal and use one voice actor for multiple voices. But then said voice actor would probably go insane. If they kept the companion dialogue system from DA2/ Awakening, which results in everyone having relatively fewer lines spoken, you could have a warden npc.

So basically what you are saying is that Bioware is either too lazy to take on such a huge project, or Bioware doesn't have the funds for it.  Honestly, if they produce such an epic game, would the cost actually stop hardcore fans from buying the game?  I think not.

I think yes, as the budget spent in voice acting would be so hugely bloated by basically throwing cash in the most pointless shredder ever that the rest of the features would suffer to the point of having just a DvD with a set of voices burned on it.

Modifié par Xewaka, 09 avril 2011 - 09:26 .

[hanoobken]

Xewaka wrote...

hanoobken wrote...

CerealWar wrote...
Male Dwarf Noble, Male Casteless, Male Human Noble, Male Human Mage, Male City Elf, Male Dalish Elf, Male Elf Mage, Female Dwarf Noble, Female Casteless, Female Human Noble, Female Human Mage, Female City Elf, Female Dalish Elf, Female Elf Mage.
These are the reasons for an unvoiced warden. Although, you could be frugal and use one voice actor for multiple voices. But then said voice actor would probably go insane. If they kept the companion dialogue system from DA2/ Awakening, which results in everyone having relatively fewer lines spoken, you could have a warden npc.

So basically what you are saying is that Bioware is either too lazy to take on such a huge project, or Bioware doesn't have the funds for it.  Honestly, if they produce such an epic game, would the cost actually stop hardcore fans from buying the game?  I think not.

I think yes, as the budget spent in voice acting would be so hugely bloated by basically throwing cash in the most pointless shredder ever that the rest of the features would suffer to the point of having just a DvD with a set of voices burned on it.

The misleading paraphrases are actually what make the conversations so fun, you never know what your character is going to say, it adds spice and it makes you think about the meaning of the paraphrases before you make your choice.  Take ME as an example, a lot of the exchanges were epic because of the shortened choices and your character always blurts out stuff you didn't expect.  When a game is too predictable it gets boring.

As for the budget, well yes I agree it would cost a lot more, but then that's part of every business.  The higher the quality the higher the cost.  As long as the product meets expectations of the majority, the costs won't matter because people will pay for it no matter what.  Billionaires don't rely on making cheap products, it is always the quality that comes first.

We already know the disastrous effects of cutting corners and rushing the release had on DA2, I don't think Bioware will make the same mistake twice, unless they're stupid.

[Xewaka]

hanoobken wrote...
The misleading paraphrases are actually what make the conversations so fun, you never know what your character is going to say

I read that and then realized that I can't take anything you say seriously anymore.

[hanoobken]

Xewaka wrote...

hanoobken wrote...
The misleading paraphrases are actually what make the conversations so fun, you never know what your character is going to say

I read that and then realized that I can't take anything you say seriously anymore.

You should stick to DA:O and Neverwinter Nights for the straight up choices

[stobie]

hanoobken wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

hanoobken wrote...

CerealWar wrote...
Male Dwarf Noble, Male Casteless, Male Human Noble, Male Human Mage, Male City Elf, Male Dalish Elf, Male Elf Mage, Female Dwarf Noble, Female Casteless, Female Human Noble, Female Human Mage, Female City Elf, Female Dalish Elf, Female Elf Mage.
These are the reasons for an unvoiced warden. Although, you could be frugal and use one voice actor for multiple voices. But then said voice actor would probably go insane. If they kept the companion dialogue system from DA2/ Awakening, which results in everyone having relatively fewer lines spoken, you could have a warden npc.

So basically what you are saying is that Bioware is either too lazy to take on such a huge project, or Bioware doesn't have the funds for it.  Honestly, if they produce such an epic game, would the cost actually stop hardcore fans from buying the game?  I think not.

I think yes, as the budget spent in voice acting would be so hugely bloated by basically throwing cash in the most pointless shredder ever that the rest of the features would suffer to the point of having just a DvD with a set of voices burned on it.

The misleading paraphrases are actually what make the conversations so fun, you never know what your character is going to say, it adds spice and it makes you think about the meaning of the paraphrases before you make your choice.  Take ME as an example, a lot of the exchanges were epic because of the shortened choices and your character always blurts out stuff you didn't expect.  When a game is too predictable it gets boring.

As for the budget, well yes I agree it would cost a lot more, but then that's part of every business.  The higher the quality the higher the cost.  As long as the product meets expectations of the majority, the costs won't matter because people will pay for it no matter what.  Billionaires don't rely on making cheap products, it is always the quality that comes first.

We already know the disastrous effects of cutting corners and rushing the release had on DA2, I don't think Bioware will make the same mistake twice, unless they're stupid.

If I don't know what my character is saying, then it's not really *my character.*  For me, that's just annoying.  I hate it when I say something that I didn't pick or wouldn't say.  I'm not trying to guess at what some third person character is thinking - I'm immersing myself in my character.  So I can't agree that this is intended or fun.  Granted, some of them were funny. They also led to, "UGH! I wouldn't say THAT! Reload!"