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[hanoobken]

stobie wrote...

hanoobken wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

hanoobken wrote...

CerealWar wrote...
Male Dwarf Noble, Male Casteless, Male Human Noble, Male Human Mage, Male City Elf, Male Dalish Elf, Male Elf Mage, Female Dwarf Noble, Female Casteless, Female Human Noble, Female Human Mage, Female City Elf, Female Dalish Elf, Female Elf Mage.
These are the reasons for an unvoiced warden. Although, you could be frugal and use one voice actor for multiple voices. But then said voice actor would probably go insane. If they kept the companion dialogue system from DA2/ Awakening, which results in everyone having relatively fewer lines spoken, you could have a warden npc.

So basically what you are saying is that Bioware is either too lazy to take on such a huge project, or Bioware doesn't have the funds for it.  Honestly, if they produce such an epic game, would the cost actually stop hardcore fans from buying the game?  I think not.

I think yes, as the budget spent in voice acting would be so hugely bloated by basically throwing cash in the most pointless shredder ever that the rest of the features would suffer to the point of having just a DvD with a set of voices burned on it.

The misleading paraphrases are actually what make the conversations so fun, you never know what your character is going to say, it adds spice and it makes you think about the meaning of the paraphrases before you make your choice.  Take ME as an example, a lot of the exchanges were epic because of the shortened choices and your character always blurts out stuff you didn't expect.  When a game is too predictable it gets boring.

As for the budget, well yes I agree it would cost a lot more, but then that's part of every business.  The higher the quality the higher the cost.  As long as the product meets expectations of the majority, the costs won't matter because people will pay for it no matter what.  Billionaires don't rely on making cheap products, it is always the quality that comes first.

We already know the disastrous effects of cutting corners and rushing the release had on DA2, I don't think Bioware will make the same mistake twice, unless they're stupid.

If I don't know what my character is saying, then it's not really *my character.*  For me, that's just annoying.  I hate it when I say something that I didn't pick or wouldn't say.  I'm not trying to guess at what some third person character is thinking - I'm immersing myself in my character.  So I can't agree that this is intended or fun.  Granted, some of them were funny. They also led to, "UGH! I wouldn't say THAT! Reload!"

Whether your choices are laid bare just like in DA:O or paraphrased, it will never really *your character* since all the choices have been  pre-made for you.  If it were really me I could think of a lot of other things to say.  You just go "OH S**T" that's not what I wanted to say with the paraphrases :happy:

Fun fun!

[Xewaka]

hanoobken wrote...
Whether your choices are laid bare just like in DA:O or paraphrased, it will never really *your character* since all the choices have been  pre-made for you.  If it were really me I could think of a lot of other things to say.  You just go "OH S**T" that's not what I wanted to say with the paraphrases :happy:
Fun fun!

What you are failing to appreciate is that with a full line you can actually have the illusion of choice of knowing what your character will say, which increases the illusion of control. The wheel robs us that, shattering any illusion of control over the character.

[DA_GamerGal]

David Gaider wrote...

krissyjf wrote...
If Bioware only planned to do a trilogy of DA games

Is there any particular reason you think this is our plan?

I certainly was really hoping it wasn't the plan, but I kept reading in the various forums and boards that this might be( or might have been) the original plan to do just 3 games ( thus I started with "if") . Are you saying that this never was the plan? Because you would make me extremely happy if this isn't the case!

[AnimeAngel90]

Man I am sick of these forums logging me out every time I go to a new page or try to make a post.....

Anyways! The three personalities they picked match up to the basic personalities you could play your warden as - goody-two-shoes, sarcastic-why-are-you-looking-at-me, and angry bastard XD Sometimes, yes, the paraphrasing was not even close to what they said, which did get a little odd. But if you picked the goody-two-shoes character, you're unlikely to pick the other two options anyway.

They can't be expected to get everything right the first time. Yes they have used the conversation wheel before, but that was for a completely different game and a slightly different fanbase (although both bioware games, not everyone who plays ME2 has played DA2 and vice versa).

Maybe more options on the wheel, or more accurate paraphrasing? Even if sometimes I was unhappy with what they said, I did love the voice acting - it made Hawke seem a lot more real to me. Apparently I'm alone here, but it is something I thought was a great change from DA:O - yes it could use improvement, but so is a system where I pick any one of 6 options and have no idea how my character presents them (i.e. in my head I think the line is sarcastic, but actually the other NPC takes it literally and it just makes things weird for the conversation and not what I intended anyway).

At least this way I know the tone, if not always what Hawke is going to say. Eventually I may get both, but if I can only have one, I want the tone because I like the voice acting

[AnimeAngel90]

krissyjf wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

krissyjf wrote...
If Bioware only planned to do a trilogy of DA games

Is there any particular reason you think this is our plan?

I certainly was really hoping it wasn't the plan, but I kept reading in the various forums and boards that this might be( or might have been) the original plan to do just 3 games ( thus I started with "if") . Are you saying that this never was the plan? Because you would make me extremely happy if this isn't the case!

It might be pessimistic, but my first thought at reading that is that maybe they don't even plan on DA3? Of course, I would love it if there was a DA3, and I think there is definitely things they could write about for that, but yeah....

I'm going to take the approach that there will be more games, not less though. And continue reading Gaider's posts everywhere and laughing at the people he's arguing with

[DA_GamerGal]

Amagoi wrote...

Also about Fiona and Alistair, I don't think David ever confirmed or denied. The most he said was that the timeline for the books and the game were slightly off due to an editing mistake. I've always thought there's a third Maricspawn out there, if only so no matter what happened to Alistair in Origins that there'd be a Theirin in a future game.

You know, I was wondering about that. I actually played DA:O before reading the book, so when I read the ending about Fiona and the baby, I just assumed that the child was Alistair... even though the timeline didn't quite fit.

It would be nice for Alistair to discover he had another sibling since his sister was such a b**** to him.

[DA_GamerGal]

Torax wrote...

 I doubt the Qunari would invade all of Thedas. .

Really? You don't think they would try to do that?  I get the feeling that this is the Qunari's ultimate purpose... to convert the rest of the world and to bring their type of "order" to all the lands that they possible can.

But I could be totally wrong. Only the DA writers know for sure what will happen.

[DA_GamerGal]

Maria Caliban wrote...

krissyjf wrote...

If Bioware only planned to do a trilogy of DA games, how do you suppose they will be able to finish all the storylines started in DA:O , Awakenings and DA2 , and tie up all loose ends in just one game?  I don't think it is possible.

At no point has BioWare called DA a trilogy.

That said, I don't believe it's possible (or desirable) to tie up every storyline and loose end in one game. Especially when you seem to be calling a 'loose end' every question you have about the game.

Alistiar's mother, for example, means nothing to the overall story. (That we know of) Maybe she's Fiona. Maybe it was just one of the Arl's servants. It might be nice to know but it's not relevant to any plot line.

That's the point I was making... that it is impossible to finish all the storylines/plots in one game.  Or two games.

I really am not expecting Bioware to tie-up every loose end that may arise out of playing the games... it's just wishfull thinking on my part. I am just one of those people where every part of the story really matters to me... even the stuff that really isn't relevant to the main plot points. So for me, when the very last game is made, I want to have a feeling of "this is the end. There is nothing more to be told. I now know the begining, middle and end of all plots and storylines." Again, wishfull thinking on my part.

But I'll settle for whatever the DA writers have to offer me.

[Wee Joe Green]

So what happened to Morrigan's supposed appearance in DA2?? I think many of us were expecting she would be in it - even if just in fleeting, a mention of what might have happened to her.

When I completed Dragon Age 2 and they left it open for a cliffhanger (even after Morrigan's DLC, more so if anything) this was one of the main things I was excited about for Dragon Age 2 and many people speculated for hours over what the involvement would be and how her child with the soul of the archdemon would turn out. This is not something to just leave a game on and never come back to or at least explain! Can we expect then that this will be part of Dragon Age 3?

I hope like the Morrigan example, DA2 doesn't turn out to be the same, with setting up the end on a completely unfinished cliffhanger and then not going on to properly explain the events.

[DA_GamerGal]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

All I really want is a game that lets you play as Darkspawn properly, not for 2 hours only like Darkspawn Chronicles.
In the end one could get rid of all loose ends once Blight swallows everything.

I bought all the DLC for DA:O except for the Darkspawn Chronicles... I couldn't bring myself to play as one of those horrid creatures. I loved being a Grey Warden too much to do that. It just felt wrong somehow, to become a Darkspawn.

I take it you enjoyed the Darkspawn Chronicles, though?

[Wee Joe Green]

I understand some people expect/believe that Morrigan and Flemeth will feature in Dragon Age 3 or at least further down the line. I don't see why, if they were going to though, they wouldn't just do it in the direct sequel. Why wait until two games into the future to tie up those loose ends? Its not as if it's a book which can invariably be released quicker and completed faster. It could be another couple of years, on top of the length of time from Origins, until we see Dragon Age 3 and finally get an answer.

[DA_GamerGal]

hrotsurz wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

krissyjf wrote...
If Bioware only planned to do a trilogy of DA games

Is there any particular reason you think this is our plan?

Well it more than obvious whith that lackluster ending of Dragon Age 2 , that you put so many things that need to be answered but not even give a single hint IN THE GAME for a possible answer , I mean im still angered that all that time I put to the game ( a 137 hours) to have a cliffhanger ending , sheesh , also you keep adding stuff to the stories only to force us buy more things , I love the setting you didnt need to rely on such low level tactics to make me buy more things Dragon Age , Im sorry for this rant but arggghhhh it makes me mad

I haven't decided if I like the way DA2 ended or not. I realy wouldn't call the ending a cliffhanger, though... more of an unfinished storyline that most likely will be continued in another DA game ( I hope!). I can say that the first time I played DA2 and reached the part where Anders blew up the chantry... well, I'm pretty sure all the DA writers would have been clapping themselves on their backs if they had seen and heard my reaction... 'cause it probably was what they were hoping for. I'm on my 4th play-through and I still have the same reaction and feelings as I did when I first experienced that moment. 

What can I say? I am a true diehard DA fan.

[DA_GamerGal]

Torax wrote...

Think of it like this. There was closure to a degree for a part of Hawke's past. Their life in Kirkwall had ended. Granted Hawke played a part in the circumstances that forced them to flee the City of Chains it was not directly in their power to stop it. That part of their life is closed. Now they have disappeared 3 years after leaving Kirkwall. We will have to wait and see what comes next.

Yes. Waiting. Wating is.....bad. Next there will be swooping. 

[DA_GamerGal]

David Gaider wrote...

Amagoi wrote...
Also about Fiona and Alistair, I don't think David ever confirmed or denied. The most he said was that the timeline for the books and the game were slightly off due to an editing mistake.

That would be correct.

Thank you for clearing this up, Mr. Gaider. My apologies... I had been misinformed.

[DA_GamerGal]

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

krissyjf wrote...
If Bioware only planned to do a trilogy of DA games

Is there any particular reason you think this is our plan?

I have read articles that called Dragon Age a trilogy. Maybe she stumbled on one and didn't realize it was wrong.

You are correct. I had read this, but I am happy that this is not the correct information.

My apologies to Mr. Gaider and his team.

[DA_GamerGal]

stobie wrote...


If I don't know what my character is saying, then it's not really *my character.*  For me, that's just annoying.  I hate it when I say something that I didn't pick or wouldn't say.  I'm not trying to guess at what some third person character is thinking - I'm immersing myself in my character.  So I can't agree that this is intended or fun.  Granted, some of them were funny. They also led to, "UGH! I wouldn't say THAT! Reload!"

I ran in to this same problem more than once with my Hawk(s). Even lost some friendship points because I picked something that came out way too harsh then what I intended! Some of those preview lines that where shown on the dialogue wheel turned out to be totally different ( in the conversation that followed) then what I thought would be said. (Okay... did that even make any sense?! Well, I'm sure you get my meaning)

[VeoLu]

stobie wrote...


If I don't know what my character is saying, then it's not really *my character.*  For me, that's just annoying.  I hate it when I say something that I didn't pick or wouldn't say.  I'm not trying to guess at what some third person character is thinking - I'm immersing myself in my character.  So I can't agree that this is intended or fun.  Granted, some of them were funny. They also led to, "UGH! I wouldn't say THAT! Reload!"

I hate to agree, but I do.  Some of the 'Sarcastic" choices just sounded plain rude and/or aggressive, and some of the aggressor lines didn't really sound like the dialogue wheel 'summary'.

When I see dialogue wheel, (in DA2 and ME2) I think the text on screen is just a blunt summary of the point being made. I didn't feel this very often in DA2... I am in favour of Hawke having a voice, however, just in the future hope it' fits better to the emotional pretense.

[Katy Bug]

krissyjf wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

krissyjf wrote...
If Bioware only planned to do a trilogy of DA games

Is there any particular reason you think this is our plan?

I have read articles that called Dragon Age a trilogy. Maybe she stumbled on one and didn't realize it was wrong.

You are correct. I had read this, but I am happy that this is not the correct information.

My apologies to Mr. Gaider and his team.

Well, there was that line in the DA 2 strategy guide that said something like "What will happen in the next installment of Dragon Age?"  What a tease.

[David Gaider]

krissyjf wrote...
I certainly was really hoping it wasn't the plan, but I kept reading in the various forums and boards that this might be( or might have been) the original plan to do just 3 games ( thus I started with "if") . Are you saying that this never was the plan? Because you would make me extremely happy if this isn't the case!

We've never said DA was intended as a trilogy, nor that DA was ever intended to follow a single character. In fact, I do believe we've said the opposite. I'm pretty certain that some people are referencing discussions about Mass Effect and assuming they also apply to DA.

As for what someone said about having so many unanswered questions-- yes, I definitely agree that you wouldn't want to keep posing questions without ever answering them. That would eventually get tiresome. I suppose it would be incumbent upon us, then, to start answering a few. Not on forums, of course, but in an actual game. That would be ideal.

[Maria Caliban]

Wee Joe Green wrote...

So what happened to Morrigan's supposed appearance in DA2??

The devs actually said prior to DA II coming out that Morrigan wouldn't appear in it.

I am not surprised. If she's trying to keep away from Flemeth and/or raise a kid, running around in Kirkwall would be a bad idea.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 10 avril 2011 - 04:58 .

[David Gaider]

VeoLu wrote...
I am in favour of Hawke having a voice, however, just in the future hope it' fits better to the emotional pretense.

Personally, I wouldn't mind adding some different icons. I think, for instance, that we became a bit fixated on the icons presenting "tone" and thus missed an opportunity to have them express emotion: a happy or sad icon, for instance, that would be permission of a sort from the player for us to have the PC react to something in a more emotional way (whereas normally we avoid going too far in that direction out of a sense of not wanting to impede on the player's territory).

As far as the paraphrases themselves go, I don't think we'll be getting rid of them anytime soon. I do think, however, that we can and should work on refining our rules for their use (coupled with the use of better icons). I wouldn't mind seeing an option for a player to hover over a response and get some pop-up text of the resulting wording-- but that might be something that only works for the PC, and not really my forte anyhow since it involves GUI magic. But I'd be in favor of it, even if it's just for those people who will never get past their mental block regarding the paraphrases.

[Torax]

David Gaider wrote...

VeoLu wrote...
I am in favour of Hawke having a voice, however, just in the future hope it' fits better to the emotional pretense.

Personally, I wouldn't mind adding some different icons. I think, for instance, that we became a bit fixated on the icons presenting "tone" and thus missed an opportunity to have them express emotion: a happy or sad icon, for instance, that would be permission of a sort from the player for us to have the PC react to something in a more emotional way (whereas normally we avoid going too far in that direction out of a sense of not wanting to impede on the player's territory).

As far as the paraphrases themselves go, I don't think we'll be getting rid of them anytime soon. I do think, however, that we can and should work on refining our rules for their use (coupled with the use of better icons). I wouldn't mind seeing an option for a player to hover over a response and get some pop-up text of the resulting wording-- but that might be something that only works for the PC, and not really my forte anyhow since it involves GUI magic. But I'd be in favor of it, even if it's just for those people who will never get past their mental block regarding the paraphrases.

To be fair I think some who are newest to it may never have played Mass Effect. Shepard had me jaded to that a long time ago. Personally I think the added Icons helped a lot. More icons to better denote what the goal is really helped to judge a response. I think in the end the character voicing their own words will never fit for people who think they would have reacted differently. That will never appease all but it's the price to pay for my character not being rigid and emotionless.

[Torax]

After thinking about it though. The allowing to highlight and see more of what is said could be a slippery slope if it's a long conversation with more than one talking. Would some then dislike not knowing the response they were given that is not shown? I'm guessing some that would already not like knowing now may also hate not being able to see the response from the companion to.

More than that. It takes out the fun of playing again to see what else is said. Like a surprise. You'd know in your first game everything you'd say. You'd just not be able to hear it.

Modifié par Torax, 10 avril 2011 - 05:26 .

[ipgd]

David Gaider wrote...

I think, for instance, that we became a bit fixated on the icons presenting "tone" and thus missed an opportunity to have them express emotion: a happy or sad icon, for instance, that would be permission of a sort from the player for us to have the PC react to something in a more emotional way (whereas normally we avoid going too far in that direction out of a sense of not wanting to impede on the player's territory).

I'd love to see these. I was sorely missing my emotional breakdown option for All That Remains.