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[Jedi Master of Orion]

The end of DA 2 was dramatic and all but I have to wonder why it had any impact on the rest of Thedas. Knight Commander Meredith's authority extends only to Kirkwall and maybe the surrounding cities in the Free Marches, and her invoking the Rite of Anulment really doesn't seem to have any reason to effect the rest of the Circles in Thedas, especially since most of them are not nearly as troubled as Krikwall's. And not only that, I don't see how every mage in every Circle would rebel against all the templars. Aren't there supposed to be a great deal of Loyalists or otherwise Chantry allied mages? I got the impression that Irving and Gregior had a much relationship than Orsino and Meredith, so it's hard to imagine them repeating the incident that happened in Kirkwall. And it's not like the Rite of Anulment has never been invoked before. Why didn't any of those incidents cause Chantry splitting wars? Why would other Circles with their own local circumstances react the same way Kirkwall's did? Even with all the chaos that might have resulted from Hawke's intervetion, how was the new status quo so disruptive to the whole rest of the world?

[LobselVith8]

Wynne addresses that a near majority of mages wanted freedom from the Chantry since the Warden spoke to her in Awakening. It doesn't surprise me that Knight-Commander Meredith ordering the execution of all the mages in the Kirkwall Circle for something a former Grey Warden did would spur them to emancipate themselves from the Chantry and the Order of Templars. Following the templars no longer taking orders from the Chantry, it doesn't surprise me that the whole world is on the brink of war, especially with the ruler of Ferelden protecting apostates or otherwise backing the Magi boon from the Hero of Ferelden.

[Torax]

According to the Sebastian DLC. All of Thedas was watching what was happening in Kirkwall. If Kirkwall fell to magic, it would not go well for all the Circles. You can assume once news hit that many mages could have took what happened there as a threat no matter which side was taken. Could also assume that even if the Templars in other Circles were not as extreme as in Kirkwall. Any added precautions or restrictions that the Order would apply after would bring more fear and anger on the Mages. Overtime this would end badly for all.

Also keep in mind there was a specific off shoot of the fraternities that was helping to fuel the fire there in Kirkwall. I doubt they would let it end just in Kirkwall.

[Plaintiff]

Varric says in the epilogue that mages fled from Kirkwall to other Circles and spread the word and the other mages are inspired to act.

Seemed pretty simple to me.

[RavenB]

I think there's a good chance that there are other issues at play besides the events of Kirkwall. Morrigan and Flemeth both waxed lyrical about "change" that was coming. Did they just see the future, or is that something they (not necessarily together, maybe in different ways) were also orchestrating from their own ends? We also know Ferelden was stirring the pot by giving mages greater freedoms and bucking the circle. The warden and the champion are both noted as "disappearing". I imagine as time goes on we'll see that, although what happened in the circle was important, it's likely that there are other things at work also.

[ZeroDotZero]

I figured that all the countries of the world would take a side. I can imagine that Tevinter, Rivain, the Free Marches and maybe Ferelden would side with the mages and just about everywhere else with the templars. War time!

[IanPolaris]

Fereldan is definately pro-mage. In fact when you talk with King Alistair, Meridith is outraged because Fereldan has unilaterally declared itself a mage-haven (circle-boon or no circle-boon).

-Polaris

[greyman33]

IanPolaris wrote...

Fereldan is definately pro-mage. In fact when you talk with King Alistair, Meridith is outraged because Fereldan has unilaterally declared itself a mage-haven (circle-boon or no circle-boon).

-Polaris

Which makes sense, considering he: a) Already disliked the templars from his short stint in the order, Was plucked from sure death and nursed back to health by an apostate, c) Saved the world with the help of another apostate, and potentially d) Fathered a child with an apostate.

That's quite a few reasons right there for him to have some pro-mage leanings.

[TheBlackBaron]

Ferelden also still remember the Orlesian occupation, and I highly doubt Loghain was alone in viewing the Chantry as a predominately Orlesian organization. So they've got good reason to go against the Chantry even if they're not particularly pro-mage (such as when Anora is one the throne).

[Raiil]

Well, I don't know how much fathering an apostate made his views on magic any brighter, considering the apostate in the situation. XD

There are different views on the situation of course; my King Alistair has a mage for a chancellor, who he also happens to be boning in lieu of a regular marriage, so in my game, I imagine my Amell is probably a big influence.


However, if we're looking at the safe, across the board options:

a) Alistair is fascinated by magic. It's stated in his DA:O codex specifically.
Alistair has first hand knowledge- regardless of how you play Origins- of the power of a mage/templar parternership. Because Morrigan and Alistair are forced into your party for a short period of time, he has to have this knowledge.
c) Anora, being a pretty sharp woman, may have better feelings on mages than most due to Wilhelm's influence from the DA books. Theoretically, she may have insight your average person/ruler does not.
d) Alistair isn't a screaming fan of the Chantry, and Anora will not brook any threat to her rule. This would include the Chantry interfering with her laws. She's stubborn and brilliant and could probably manipulate her way through a political ****storm with more ease than others.
c) Mages are powerful. Orlais is baying at Ferelden's door. What better way to get nukers who have very good reason to be loyal to you by offering them protection?

[sphinxess]

With it being a huge uprising the Chantry can't use its favorite weapon - the exalted march.

[Bigdoser]

Wow if fereldan becomes a mage haven they will have alot of fire power knowing anora she would try to make use of this.

[Raiil]

sphinxess wrote...

With it being a huge uprising the Chantry can't use its favorite weapon - the exalted march.

They could, although it would be reduced; Exalted Marches depend on non-chantry forces as well as internal strength.

But that's where poltics might blow up in the Chantry's face; because the system is so identified with Orlais, there are countries that might refuse simply because they view it as an Orlesian ruse. Nevarra, for example, was invaded by Orlais after joining them on an Exalted March, and it took a while for them to regain freedom. I could understand why their leader might side eye any request for help.

[TheBlackBaron]

Valentia X wrote...

sphinxess wrote...

With it being a huge uprising the Chantry can't use its favorite weapon - the exalted march.

They could, although it would be reduced; Exalted Marches depend on non-chantry forces as well as internal strength.

Not really - with the mages in revolt and the templars going rogue, they've now lost all of their own martial forces, and with the world in its current state I doubt many nations are going to lend them forces for an Exalted March.

[BubbleDncr]

Basically, the Chantry can't go to war with the mages without it getting political. What country is going to let them just wage war and kill its citizens in the process?

Every country will have to pick a side. Obviously, Orlais will be on the Chantry's side, and it looks like Ferelden's most likely to support mages.

[TJPags]

IanPolaris wrote...

Fereldan is definately pro-mage. In fact when you talk with King Alistair, Meridith is outraged because Fereldan has unilaterally declared itself a mage-haven (circle-boon or no circle-boon).

-Polaris

There's one thing I'm confused about here.

If you DON'T have King Alistair - and I never do - I don't think you learn this.  I certainly don't recall hearing anything about this in my Drunk Alistair game.

Is this something I missed?  Is it something that only happens if you make Alistair king?  And if the latter, then how reliable is it as "canon" type information?

[Raiil]

TJPags wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Fereldan is definately pro-mage. In fact when you talk with King Alistair, Meridith is outraged because Fereldan has unilaterally declared itself a mage-haven (circle-boon or no circle-boon).

-Polaris

There's one thing I'm confused about here.

If you DON'T have King Alistair - and I never do - I don't think you learn this.  I certainly don't recall hearing anything about this in my Drunk Alistair game.

Is this something I missed?  Is it something that only happens if you make Alistair king?  And if the latter, then how reliable is it as "canon" type information?

I think the mages flee to Ferelden regardless, the idea being that no matter who's in charge of Ferelden, they're harbouring apostates there.

[TJPags]

Valentia X wrote...

TJPags wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Fereldan is definately pro-mage. In fact when you talk with King Alistair, Meridith is outraged because Fereldan has unilaterally declared itself a mage-haven (circle-boon or no circle-boon).

-Polaris

There's one thing I'm confused about here.

If you DON'T have King Alistair - and I never do - I don't think you learn this.  I certainly don't recall hearing anything about this in my Drunk Alistair game.

Is this something I missed?  Is it something that only happens if you make Alistair king?  And if the latter, then how reliable is it as "canon" type information?

I think the mages flee to Ferelden regardless, the idea being that no matter who's in charge of Ferelden, they're harbouring apostates there.

Quite possible.  But are we told this anywhere?

Because, my thinking is, if this is the case - that Ferelden harbors mages whether you ask for the mage boon or not - that people who, for whatever reason, don't have King Alistair in their games, may be in for quite a shock in DA3.  Are we given any reason by Alsitair as to why he's doing this?

[IanPolaris]

TJPags wrote...

[Quite possible.  But are we told this anywhere?

Because, my thinking is, if this is the case - that Ferelden harbors mages whether you ask for the mage boon or not - that people who, for whatever reason, don't have King Alistair in their games, may be in for quite a shock in DA3.  Are we given any reason by Alsitair as to why he's doing this?

Yes. King Alistair says openly and forthrightly that he doesn't view mages as something to be feared in the same way that the Chantry does, and it's very clear that he's facing an incipit war with Orlais just a handful of years after the blight and Alistair is desperate for any help he can get.  Also (this is not specifically stated but obvious to those that played DAO), Alistair's experiences with magic have been almost universally good and his experiences with the Chantry/Templars almost univerally....problematic shall we say.  Add to that, there is considerably mistrust and even hatred towards Orlais, and the Chantry was openly pro-Orlais for a bit too long during the last occupation.

I easily see Fereldan going "Church of England" on the Divine with Alistair annointing his own Grand Cleric of Denerium (or even just gaining the allegaince of the current Grand Cleric of Denerium).  Given that Andraste was born in Denerum, that would be a cataclysmic blow to the Chantry.

-Polaris

[Raiil]

TJPags wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

TJPags wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Fereldan is definately pro-mage. In fact when you talk with King Alistair, Meridith is outraged because Fereldan has unilaterally declared itself a mage-haven (circle-boon or no circle-boon).

-Polaris

There's one thing I'm confused about here.

If you DON'T have King Alistair - and I never do - I don't think you learn this.  I certainly don't recall hearing anything about this in my Drunk Alistair game.

Is this something I missed?  Is it something that only happens if you make Alistair king?  And if the latter, then how reliable is it as "canon" type information?

I think the mages flee to Ferelden regardless, the idea being that no matter who's in charge of Ferelden, they're harbouring apostates there.

Quite possible.  But are we told this anywhere?

Because, my thinking is, if this is the case - that Ferelden harbors mages whether you ask for the mage boon or not - that people who, for whatever reason, don't have King Alistair in their games, may be in for quite a shock in DA3.  Are we given any reason by Alsitair as to why he's doing this?

Unless it's something addressed in some DLC.

[Torax]

IanPolaris wrote...

TJPags wrote...

[Quite possible.  But are we told this anywhere?

Because, my thinking is, if this is the case - that Ferelden harbors mages whether you ask for the mage boon or not - that people who, for whatever reason, don't have King Alistair in their games, may be in for quite a shock in DA3.  Are we given any reason by Alsitair as to why he's doing this?

Yes. King Alistair says openly and forthrightly that he doesn't view mages as something to be feared in the same way that the Chantry does, and it's very clear that he's facing an incipit war with Orlais just a handful of years after the blight and Alistair is desperate for any help he can get.  Also (this is not specifically stated but obvious to those that played DAO), Alistair's experiences with magic have been almost universally good and his experiences with the Chantry/Templars almost univerally....problematic shall we say.  Add to that, there is considerably mistrust and even hatred towards Orlais, and the Chantry was openly pro-Orlais for a bit too long during the last occupation.

I easily see Fereldan going "Church of England" on the Divine with Alistair annointing his own Grand Cleric of Denerium (or even just gaining the allegaince of the current Grand Cleric of Denerium).  Given that Andraste was born in Denerum, that would be a cataclysmic blow to the Chantry.

-Polaris

To point out. Much influence that Alistair had of magic would also come from Duncan. Duncan didn't fear magic. Blood Magic while dangerous is nothing compared to fears of Dark Spawn or War. So Alistair wouldn't automatically trreat all mages as an enemy. It's not his way. Never appeared to be.

[TJPags]

IanPolaris wrote...

TJPags wrote...

[Quite possible.  But are we told this anywhere?

Because, my thinking is, if this is the case - that Ferelden harbors mages whether you ask for the mage boon or not - that people who, for whatever reason, don't have King Alistair in their games, may be in for quite a shock in DA3.  Are we given any reason by Alsitair as to why he's doing this?

Yes. King Alistair says openly and forthrightly that he doesn't view mages as something to be feared in the same way that the Chantry does, and it's very clear that he's facing an incipit war with Orlais just a handful of years after the blight and Alistair is desperate for any help he can get.  Also (this is not specifically stated but obvious to those that played DAO), Alistair's experiences with magic have been almost universally good and his experiences with the Chantry/Templars almost univerally....problematic shall we say.  Add to that, there is considerably mistrust and even hatred towards Orlais, and the Chantry was openly pro-Orlais for a bit too long during the last occupation.

I easily see Fereldan going "Church of England" on the Divine with Alistair annointing his own Grand Cleric of Denerium (or even just gaining the allegaince of the current Grand Cleric of Denerium).  Given that Andraste was born in Denerum, that would be a cataclysmic blow to the Chantry.

-Polaris

Interesting.  I may need to play through a game with him as King just to explore this - no matter how much that thought disgusts me.

I am concerned about this being a possibly big issue in future games, though.  Unless it's explored it some DLC, as Velentia suggested, anyone who doesn't have a King Alistair game is completely out of the loop on this.

[IanPolaris]

Valentia X wrote...
Unless it's something addressed in some DLC.

I am almost sure it's going to be (or in DA3).  When I specifically asked about the "especially after what happened in Fereldan" line when "Sister Nightingale" talks about Kirkwall "falling to magic", I asked specifically (to DG) if it was because of Fereldan's boon.  I was told specifically that there was more to it and that revealing more would be a spoiler.  So apparently there is some mage-related fecal matter hitting the fan in Fereldan.  That's all I know for sure, but it does strongly imply some DLC material....at least.

-Polaris

[Torax]

TJPags wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

TJPags wrote...

[Quite possible.  But are we told this anywhere?

Because, my thinking is, if this is the case - that Ferelden harbors mages whether you ask for the mage boon or not - that people who, for whatever reason, don't have King Alistair in their games, may be in for quite a shock in DA3.  Are we given any reason by Alsitair as to why he's doing this?

Yes. King Alistair says openly and forthrightly that he doesn't view mages as something to be feared in the same way that the Chantry does, and it's very clear that he's facing an incipit war with Orlais just a handful of years after the blight and Alistair is desperate for any help he can get.  Also (this is not specifically stated but obvious to those that played DAO), Alistair's experiences with magic have been almost universally good and his experiences with the Chantry/Templars almost univerally....problematic shall we say.  Add to that, there is considerably mistrust and even hatred towards Orlais, and the Chantry was openly pro-Orlais for a bit too long during the last occupation.

I easily see Fereldan going "Church of England" on the Divine with Alistair annointing his own Grand Cleric of Denerium (or even just gaining the allegaince of the current Grand Cleric of Denerium).  Given that Andraste was born in Denerum, that would be a cataclysmic blow to the Chantry.

-Polaris

Interesting.  I may need to play through a game with him as King just to explore this - no matter how much that thought disgusts me.

I am concerned about this being a possibly big issue in future games, though.  Unless it's explored it some DLC, as Velentia suggested, anyone who doesn't have a King Alistair game is completely out of the loop on this.

If they don't have one they can just use a default one with King Alistair. Problem solved. Each one has a different Alistair result. King, Grey Warden and then a Drunk.

[TJPags]

Torax wrote...

TJPags wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

TJPags wrote...

[Quite possible.  But are we told this anywhere?

Because, my thinking is, if this is the case - that Ferelden harbors mages whether you ask for the mage boon or not - that people who, for whatever reason, don't have King Alistair in their games, may be in for quite a shock in DA3.  Are we given any reason by Alsitair as to why he's doing this?

Yes. King Alistair says openly and forthrightly that he doesn't view mages as something to be feared in the same way that the Chantry does, and it's very clear that he's facing an incipit war with Orlais just a handful of years after the blight and Alistair is desperate for any help he can get.  Also (this is not specifically stated but obvious to those that played DAO), Alistair's experiences with magic have been almost universally good and his experiences with the Chantry/Templars almost univerally....problematic shall we say.  Add to that, there is considerably mistrust and even hatred towards Orlais, and the Chantry was openly pro-Orlais for a bit too long during the last occupation.

I easily see Fereldan going "Church of England" on the Divine with Alistair annointing his own Grand Cleric of Denerium (or even just gaining the allegaince of the current Grand Cleric of Denerium).  Given that Andraste was born in Denerum, that would be a cataclysmic blow to the Chantry.

-Polaris

Interesting.  I may need to play through a game with him as King just to explore this - no matter how much that thought disgusts me.

I am concerned about this being a possibly big issue in future games, though.  Unless it's explored it some DLC, as Velentia suggested, anyone who doesn't have a King Alistair game is completely out of the loop on this.

If they don't have one they can just use a default one with King Alistair. Problem solved. Each one has a different Alistair result. King, Grey Warden and then a Drunk.

True.

My point is, though, that UNLESS you have Alistair as King, you don't get any of this information in the game.  I certainly didn't in my Drunkistair game.

IF this is going to be an important point, I'd think it would be mentioned in ANY game, not just those where Alistair is king.  After all, going by what Polaris said - and I agree with his opinion regarding Alistairs view of mages - it's almost tied to an Alistair thing.  What if I made Anora Queen (as I did)?  Would she have the same warm and fuzzy feeling toward mages?