184 réponses à ce sujet

[Melca36]

Khayness wrote...

Handwave all you wish.

I just let him alive to give him a chance for returning as a more Anders-ish Anders in future installments.

I think its better to let him live and see the consquences of his actions. I think the people who kill him just don't see the big picture.

[schalafi]

Melca36 wrote...

schalafi wrote...

Some players just love to do one thing in a game... kill. For those players killing Anders, and anyone else that's allowed in the game is the highlight of their day. : (

What people seemed to have forgotten is that people have the right to play how they see fit.

I've let Anders live and have been called a terrorist supporter because of it. 
When I did that I roleplayed my character as being alone, fed up and agreeing with him. Flemeth also said change was coming. My character just remembered what she said.

I've also killed Anders.

I bet there are plenty of people who let Anders live, they are just too scared to say anything.


There is fault on both sides.  You just can't lock mages up fro 1000 years, use them when you need to and then lock them back up again.

And I truly believe the Chantry has alot of hidden secrets and the truth will come out in the next game.

And a lot of not so pure or charitable actions too, not hidden at all.Even the grand cleric was flawed, as was the head of the circle. As I said earlier there were hard choices to make.

Modifié par schalafi, 09 avril 2011 - 11:37 .

[Melca36]

schalafi wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

schalafi wrote...

Some players just love to do one thing in a game... kill. For those players killing Anders, and anyone else that's allowed in the game is the highlight of their day. : (

What people seemed to have forgotten is that people have the right to play how they see fit.

I've let Anders live and have been called a terrorist supporter because of it. 
When I did that I roleplayed my character as being alone, fed up and agreeing with him. Flemeth also said change was coming. My character just remembered what she said.

I've also killed Anders.

I bet there are plenty of people who let Anders live, they are just too scared to say anything.


There is fault on both sides.  You just can't lock mages up fro 1000 years, use them when you need to and then lock them back up again.

And I truly believe the Chantry has alot of hidden secrets and the truth will come out in the next game.

And a lot of not so pure or charitable actions too, not hidden at all.Even the grand cleric was flawed, as was the head of the circle. As I said earlier there were hard choices to make.

I definitely agree. The Grand Cleric didn't even blink when Petrice was killed. I think in the next game, there is going to be a huge and devastating revelation about the Chantry/Chant Of Light.

[Taritu]

I killed him. It's what he wanted and he abused my trust significantly (and I'm petty like that.) And if he wanted to kill the Grand Cleric, he should have just done so. She wasn't the only person in that building. It's not like she would have stood a chance against him, she was an old woman, he was a powerful mage/abomination.

I wonder what Flemeth would have made of Anders. She's the only person who might really understand him.

[Camenae]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Jennifer Helper, the BioWare writer who wrote Anders in Dragon Age II, has written a new short-story to give you some insite into Anders' character.

You can read the new Anders short Story on Anders' character page.

I don't want to be a jerk, but I think it's "insight." >_<

[VeoLu]

I let him live on my first play-through. Even after rivaling him in subsequent plays and ending him, my gut gets all twisty when I'm called upon to shank the guy.
I think the backstory made him more interesting-- I honestly don't even see his appeal in awakenings. To me, he was Alistair in a dress. This time around made him actually worth putting effort into building. Lay on the flame.

Anyway... Shepard blows up chantries on his way to real congregations.

Modifié par VeoLu, 10 avril 2011 - 08:32 .

[Aggie Punbot]

Have we ever gotten an explanation as to why our Warden allowed a templar to be "assigned" to watch over Anders?

[VeoLu]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Have we ever gotten an explanation as to why our Warden allowed a templar to be "assigned" to watch over Anders?

No, but...

The end of Awakenings, most of my epilogues ended with "returned to highever/denerim or some such place with or without Alistair.
One of mine even had to go into hiding after being declared maleficarum

Perhaps it was during this time? My knowledge as to every outcome is fairly limited, but as with a lot of things, it can probably just be explained away. A lot of endings seem to be in accordence with the Warden not staying at the keep indefinitely. Also,

Possible Spoiler:

Perhaps what is said by Sister Nightingale during the Epilogue has something to do with it?

Modifié par VeoLu, 10 avril 2011 - 08:33 .

[Ninche]

Taritu wrote...

I killed him. It's what he wanted and he abused my trust significantly (and I'm petty like that.) And if he wanted to kill the Grand Cleric, he should have just done so. She wasn't the only person in that building. It's not like she would have stood a chance against him, she was an old woman, he was a powerful mage/abomination.

I wonder what Flemeth would have made of Anders. She's the only person who might really understand him.

Ohh but the point wasn't to kill Elthina at all, In fact, it's just unfortunate that she never leaves the damn building and wouldn't flee Kirkwall no matter how many people asked her to. The Chantry is a symbol - it's a symbol of their religion and their hold over mages and templars alike. The point was to blow up the building, this as an act is a grand declaration of war on all the Chantrys everywhere in Thedas, killing one grand Cleric wouldn't have accomplished anything nearly as much. 

[Ninche]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Have we ever gotten an explanation as to why our Warden allowed a templar to be "assigned" to watch over Anders?

I believe it happened after the Warden left Amaranthine. But to be honest BW fails with timing a bit when it comes to the whole post-blight thing in Awakening. There is hardly enough time in a year for the warden to defeat the Blight, save Amaranthine, stay for a while and then disappear. 

[Xewaka]

Souris wrote...

Impact969 wrote...
Yea I kill him every time, so he has no purpose for me anymore.
He kills all those people, so killing him is the right choice.
Please drop this character from future DLC.

I don't understand how people treat Anders differently for killing people, when you run through the game massacring Qunari, Elves, Humans, Templars, Mages, you name it. In droves.
The line that is being drawn is thin and weak at best.

*SPOILERS*


He deliberately murders innocent people in a terrorist attack.

I have yet to run into a case where my Hawke doesn't attack someone in self defense or defense of others.
The line is clear and well defined.

[nightscrawl]

I liked the short story. I felt it gave more insight into his internal struggle with Justice. True, you get to see it several times throughout the game and hear him talk about it, but getting to read his thoughts on it was interesting.

I've traditionally maxed out my friendship with Anders. I've had a romance where he lived at the end, I've had max friendships where I killed him, and friendships where I let him live.

I had never done a full rivalry before until just recently, and it certainly gives a different perspective. The Questioning Beliefs following the Ser Alrik incident was quite enlightening. You really get to see him go on at length about how he feels mages should be "empowered to police themselves." In the four other times I've played this game in friendship status, I have never heard him say those words, which is unfortunate because it's a belief that I share. Anders typically comes across as deliberately obtuse to the serious danger that mages pose, which is extremely frustrating.

In Act 2 after a certain person is killed (trying to not spoil here...) you can click on him and he will say that he "can't believe a mage would do such a thing." That line infuriates me every time. I want to grab him by those grubby robes he wears and shake some sense into him. All the s--t that we've seen mages do in Kirkwall, what happened to the circle in Ferelden in Origins (which I know he knows about), and he can seriously say that to me?! And here is the root of my problem with Anders: he is so focused on "freeing mages" in the present, that he doesn't even stop to consider the ramafications of his actions. Fenris, for all of his emo-ness, attempts to explain it to him, but he refuses to see even a bit of sense on the subject and realize that maybe, just maybe, there might be a point there.

I think this, combined with his being the most tactless person in all of Thedas in several cutscenes, is the problem that other players, not just myself, have with Anders.

I also disagree with those that think this Anders isn't a continuation of the Awakening Anders. Think of what he has gone through: the events of Awakening were hugely momentous in his life (he became a Grey Warden and took part in a plot that was completely beyond himself and his own escape struggles), his time with the Wardens between Awakening and DA2, deciding to "merge" with Justice, and finally heading to Kirkwall (home to an even more oppressive Circle than he was familiar with.) Of course he is not going to be that same carefree Anders he was throughout most of Awakening; he was too self-absorbed in that game for that to transition over into DA2. And yet elements of his humor remain, which you can see mostly in his banter with Varric. I also like the voice choice; it fits well with the more focused, mature Anders.

[LadyVaJedi]

Spoiler ++++
I wonder if Anders in someway is working with Sister Nightingale. Since she is the black hand of the Divine I wonder if they wanted to shake things up.

[VeoLu]

Ninche wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

Have we ever gotten an explanation as to why our Warden allowed a templar to be "assigned" to watch over Anders?

I believe it happened after the Warden left Amaranthine. But to be honest BW fails with timing a bit when it comes to the whole post-blight thing in Awakening. There is hardly enough time in a year for the warden to defeat the Blight, save Amaranthine, stay for a while and then disappear. 

The events in Awakenings occured 6 months AFTER the blight was ended. No where does it say this all occured within one year. The blight is what took one year.

In the years following, once Mother has been destroyed, years pass, and the Warden leaves amaranthine in the epilogue. It is easily done that while out of the warden's eye, Anders stayed at the keep and the change occured. There's no 'fail' to be had if you think a little.

[Taritu]

Ninche wrote...

Taritu wrote...

I killed him. It's what he wanted and he abused my trust significantly (and I'm petty like that.) And if he wanted to kill the Grand Cleric, he should have just done so. She wasn't the only person in that building. It's not like she would have stood a chance against him, she was an old woman, he was a powerful mage/abomination.

I wonder what Flemeth would have made of Anders. She's the only person who might really understand him.

Ohh but the point wasn't to kill Elthina at all, In fact, it's just unfortunate that she never leaves the damn building and wouldn't flee Kirkwall no matter how many people asked her to. The Chantry is a symbol - it's a symbol of their religion and their hold over mages and templars alike. The point was to blow up the building, this as an act is a grand declaration of war on all the Chantrys everywhere in Thedas, killing one grand Cleric wouldn't have accomplished anything nearly as much. 

He said that he wanted to kill Elthina to make sure there could be no compromise.  perhaps he also wanted a grand symbol, but I don't remember him mentioning it.

Of course, the explosion was mighty impressive, give him that.  I thought before it happened that he'd figured out gunpowder somehow, but it was definitely a magical explosion.

I have some sympathy for Anders.  A ton of innocent people died so slaves could be free, and so on.  Innocent mages are dying and being turned tranquil and raped and abused all the time, and no one is doing anything about their suffering.  Elthina could do something (she could replace the Knight Commander) but she doesn't.

If I do another full playthrough, I'll probably let him live.  Screams of terrorist are too simplistic, why are the clerics lives so much more important than the lives of the mages?  At the least, he's no worse than the Knight Commander.

I'm probably simple that way, believing that all the Maker's children are equal, and all.

Modifié par Taritu, 10 avril 2011 - 09:48 .

[VeoLu]

Taritu wrote...
He said that he wanted to kill Elthina to make sure there could be no compromise.  perhaps he also wanted a grand symbol, but I don't remember him mentioning it.

Of course, the explosion was mighty impressive, give him that.  I thought before it happened that he'd figured out gunpowder somehow, but it was definitely a magical explosion.

I have some sympathy for Anders.  A ton of innocent people died so slaves could be free, and so on.  Innocent mages are dying and being turned tranquil and raped and abused all the time, and no one is doing anything about their suffering.  Elthina could do something (she could replace the Knight Commander) but she doesn't.

If I do another full playthrough, I'll probably let him live.  Screams of terrorist are too simplistic, why are the clerics lives so much more important than the lives of the mages?  At the least, he's no worse than the Knight Commander.

I'm probably simple that way, believing that all the Maker's children are equal, and all.

This is very fair. I never thought of Anders as any form of terrorist but I agree he was no better than the Knight-Commander. She was a narrow-minded bigot, but so was Anders.  They both had that one goal they'd stop at nothing to acheive, regardless of the cost.

I actually got Anders to confess about what he was doing on my first playthrough so I kinda ruined the surprise for myself. Arguing with Justice is pretty fun, though! Allowing him to live seems like it would make the next installment more interesting. One thing I don't get is why we can save Connor in Origins with a ritual - but not Anders. Has he been fused with Justice for too long? I think Jowan's explanation there was that Connor could be saved because he sought out the demon willingly. I could be wrong.

For the rape and abuse, it seems like it's only really bad like that in Kirkwall, and mages always turn to demons more there due to the circumstance and incredibly thin Veil. (As written by the band of three) So there's also reason for the Templars to be as vigilant as they are.  They provide a service - a neccessary one.

I think in the description for Elthina, it basically says she needs to be replaced due to age and lack of taking a stance on anything but because everyone in town loves her so much, her position isn't changing. Its a huge list of "could be" and "should have been".

Modifié par VeoLu, 10 avril 2011 - 10:29 .

[LadyVaJedi]

The reason Connor could be saved is that the demon controls the kid in the fade. But I still think that Anders can rid of Justice is if he tells him to leave and wants to leave.

[Ponendus]

Chris Priestly wrote...

insite

*insight

Just letting you know Master Priestly.

[plokoon9619]

Batteries wrote...

Before people freak out, if you killed Anders he is dead. He won't come back in your future games.

Whether or not you see an Anders haunted corpse in the future remains to be seen.

He died in my Awakenings and came back as a retconned decision by Bioware.

[EtaBeta68]

Justice-Vengeance will outlive Anders no matter what, so it could be wiser letting Anders live...
by the way i've let him live in my mage playthrogh and killed him in my templar one.

[alexmasterson123]

Eh... it might be just me, but surely marketing a story that was released back on Valentine's Day as a "new short-story to give you some insite into Anders' character." is pretty ****ing cheeky?

The desperation surrounding Dragon Age 2's pre-game marketing and post-game damage limitation is so embarrassingly handled, it makes me feel ashamed to be a Bioware fan.

Modifié par alexmasterson123, 11 avril 2011 - 01:26 .

[sheppard7]

Just when I thought Bioware couldn't have screwed up Anders any more than they did with DA2, did I read this crap. NOW I think Bioware can't screw him up anymore than they did. What's next? Retconning him back to life if he was stabbed in the heart from the back in the next game with the line from X-Men Origins: Wolverine, "It tickled"?


I was planning on maybe sparing him in my playthrough after the patch just to see what happens. But after reading that farce, he will always die and his legacy will be the same as Bin Ladin.

[Mooner911]

sheppard7 wrote...
Just when I thought Bioware couldn't have screwed up Anders any more than they did with DA2, did I read this crap. NOW I think Bioware can't screw him up anymore than they did. What's next? Retconning him back to life if he was stabbed in the heart from the back in the next game with the line from X-Men Origins: Wolverine, "It tickled"?
I was planning on maybe sparing him in my playthrough after the patch just to see what happens. But after reading that farce, he will always die and his legacy will be the same as Bin Ladin.

My Hawke got pig-stuck numerous times in the fight with the Qunari dude. Little Miss Merrill got pig-stuck bigtime on her quest to fix her mirror. We both lived and laughed about it. Anders gets a little shiv in the back and lays down for a while. No arguements from him, no big ugly Justice poppin out and scaring the kids... Anders aint dead. He just needed a plausable exit. Surprise!
Carry on BW...

[kakotan]

so does this short story tell how Anders became such a cry baby compared to the last game where he was more fun to be around lol

[GeoffL19]

Oh, fantastic, Anders killed a bunch of Wardens.

Wonder why Stroud or Nathaniel didn't kill him, or at least tell the Order where he was so they could send a group of Wardens to kill him.

I know that my Warden Commander/Hero of Ferelden would have hunted him down and made sure he did die.