184 réponses à ce sujet

[HTTP 404]

HTTP 404 wrote...

im sorry but the american revolutionaries didn't kill innocent people in a church...

[LadyVaJedi]

I still say that standing around when the other clerics and templers knew that treating the mages like crap were wrong and they did nothing is just as wrong. And don't forget this is a game. For me personally I wouldn't blow a building if I knew people were still in there.

[Well]

LadyVaJedi wrote...

I still say that standing around when the other clerics and templers knew that treating the mages like crap were wrong and they did nothing is just as wrong. And don't forget this is a game. For me personally I wouldn't blow a building if I knew people were still in there.

Well of course the mages were Saints.
Orsino great job of turning Quentin in.
Tahrone she was so gentle and kind to the Templars.
Idunna the spirtual guide of the Templars
Decimus a welcoming fellow.
Grace appreciative of all the help given her.
Quentin another standup mage.A collector I believe.
DuPuis so willing to put his needs behind him to help others.
Kelder another shining example of a mage.

Last but not least Anders.Maybe Ella could put a good word in for him.Oh no she cant can she.

[LadyVaJedi]

I never said they were saints. But when people feel like their life is threatened and they first shout out for help and it falls on deaf ears they are going to fight. Here are a couple of examples how about the female that was the daughter of the templer she was begging for her life would want her to stand there get raped? And how about the other female mage that was in the underground railroad if our npc didn't intervened she would have been raped as well.

[Well]

LadyVaJedi wrote...

I never said they were saints. But when people feel like their life is threatened and they first shout out for help and it falls on deaf ears they are going to fight. Here are a couple of examples how about the female that was the daughter of the templer she was begging for her life would want her to stand there get raped? And how about the other female mage that was in the underground railroad if our npc didn't intervened she would have been raped as well.

The first mage was attacted by bandits.The daughter of Templar.


The female in the underground..  Anders wound up killing her.Depending on your dialog.

Funny thing.It seems the mages had no skills.I have never run a blood mage but manage to do all kinds of damage.I have no idea why it seem so many mages didnt use other skills.

Modifié par Well, 08 mai 2011 - 05:43 .

[LadyVaJedi]

They weren't taught on how to use hand to hand combat or other weapons. I think if would the Grand Cleric would have voiced that both sides were wrong and stepped in things would have been different.  I never did a blood either. 

Modifié par LadyVaJedi, 08 mai 2011 - 06:13 .

[Melca36]

HTTP 404 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

im sorry but the american revolutionaries didn't kill innocent people in a church...

Most of the events in world history were brought on by drastic changes. Its something that happens and we have to learn to accept that.

There wasn't that many people in there to begin with.  And like I said... I tend to distance myself from reality when I play a game.  

[HTTP 404]

Melca36 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

im sorry but the american revolutionaries didn't kill innocent people in a church...

Most of the events in world history were brought on by drastic changes. Its something that happens and we have to learn to accept that.

There wasn't that many people in there to begin with.  And like I said... I tend to distance myself from reality when I play a game.  

same here. to be fair I didn't bring up the revolutionary war comparision.

[darkgriever26]

I personally like the background story. But hey this is just a game and don't take it too seriously though I had to admit I still tend to take on a few of my own feelings in the game with regards to Hawke's choices. So despite knowing that the old Anders I know changed, I still consider him a friend [despite trying to make him a rival now to change his ways haha] because that's my nature. But apart from that I just love the story and fiction is still fiction. Gets me excited to have more of it

Modifié par darkgriever26, 08 mai 2011 - 06:52 .

[swbrandt]

Yes, I almost always let him live. Why? Not because I agree with his choice (it's not what Hawke would have done), but because my Hawke is just too damned practical. It's war. Like Isabella says, it's a bold move. Terrible, but brilliant strategically if you are trying to incite a revolution. I don't think there's any option for a bloodless revolution in this game. You want real change? You're going to have to deal with blood on your hands. (Consider real-world revolutions. Very few of them occur without the deaths of many innocents - but sometimes good comes out of that. My Hawke believes that it's up to her to now make those innocent deaths count for something.) Anyway, from a purely selfish and practical point of view, you don't kill the healer 10 minutes before walking into the toughest fight of your life. I let him live so he can save my own hide and that of my friends. Their lives are worth more to Hawke than exacting punishment for something that can't be undone. Besides which, I'm not really sure that letting him live IS merciful. Give him an easy death or a hard life? Which is actually crueler? He WANTS to die. I don't let him. I see that as the easy way out. I force him to live with the hard consequences.

[HTTP 404]

swbrandt wrote...

Yes, I almost always let him live. Why? Not because I agree with his choice (it's not what Hawke would have done), but because my Hawke is just too damned practical. It's war. Like Isabella says, it's a bold move. Terrible, but brilliant strategically if you are trying to incite a revolution. I don't think there's any option for a bloodless revolution in this game. You want real change? You're going to have to deal with blood on your hands. (Consider real-world revolutions. Very few of them occur without the deaths of many innocents - but sometimes good comes out of that. My Hawke believes that it's up to her to now make those innocent deaths count for something.) Anyway, from a purely selfish and practical point of view, you don't kill the healer 10 minutes before walking into the toughest fight of your life. I let him live so he can save my own hide and that of my friends. Their lives are worth more to Hawke than exacting punishment for something that can't be undone. Besides which, I'm not really sure that letting him live IS merciful. Give him an easy death or a hard life? Which is actually crueler? He WANTS to die. I don't let him. I see that as the easy way out. I force him to live with the hard consequences.

ghandi is your exception to bloody revolutions.  but yes, as a healer he is useful.  In playthroughs I try to make back up-Anders in the sister or build a party that doesn't rely on healing (high defense with potions, etc.)  I agree that killing him is more of an easy way out.  I usually tell him that he's a murderer and I don't want to see him ever again.

[Serelir]

[quote]HTTP 404 wrote...


im sorry but the american revolutionaries didn't kill innocent people in a church...[/quote]
[/quote]

People keep repeating the myth that no atrocities were committed during the American Revolution. One has only to read about the Sons of Liberty, the treatment of loyalists, or Banastre Tarleton to realize that innocent people always suffer during wartime.

Trinity Church in New York, which had a loyalist pastor, was burned to the ground. Whether the fire was set by patriots or a mob is debateable, depending which side you read.

I suppose it's somehow less atrocious to tar and feather a civilian than to burn him alive in a church? There are numerous accounts of women being raped as well.

One can argue ad nauseam about who the victims are in DA2, but it's time to stop holding up the American Revolution as some sort of bloodless coup.

[HTTP 404]

Tuilinn Celeborne wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...


im sorry but the american revolutionaries didn't kill innocent people in a church...

People keep repeating the myth that no atrocities were committed during the American Revolution. One has only to read about the Sons of Liberty, the treatment of loyalists, or Banastre Tarleton to realize that innocent people always suffer during wartime.

Trinity Church in New York, which had a loyalist pastor, was burned to the ground. Whether the fire was set by patriots or a mob is debateable, depending which side you read.

I suppose it's somehow less atrocious to tar and feather a civilian than to burn him alive in a church? There are numerous accounts of women being raped as well.

One can argue ad nauseam about who the victims are in DA2, but it's time to stop holding up the American Revolution as some sort of bloodless coup.

Of course I know revolutions are not bloodless or innocents don't die.  Sorry for making generalized remark to something someone else brought up in the first place.  besides whats the point of your post other than to lambast me? Can you connect what you said to Anders?

Modifié par HTTP 404, 10 mai 2011 - 06:50 .

[dreadpiratesnugglecakes]

[quote]Tuilinn Celeborne wrote...

[quote]HTTP 404 wrote...


im sorry but the american revolutionaries didn't kill innocent people in a church...[/quote]
[/quote]

People keep repeating the myth that no atrocities were committed during the American Revolution. One has only to read about the Sons of Liberty, the treatment of loyalists, or Banastre Tarleton to realize that innocent people always suffer during wartime.

Trinity Church in New York, which had a loyalist pastor, was burned to the ground. Whether the fire was set by patriots or a mob is debateable, depending which side you read.

I suppose it's somehow less atrocious to tar and feather a civilian than to burn him alive in a church? There are numerous accounts of women being raped as well.

One can argue ad nauseam about who the victims are in DA2, but it's time to stop holding up the American Revolution as some sort of bloodless coup.[/quote]

No one is has said the American Revolution was a bloodless coup.  They've said for you to stop comparing your church bombing terrorist pansy mage to the American Revolutionaries. 

Why did the colonists first come to America?  To escape religous persecution.  Why did they revolt?  To be free of a tyrannical monarch.

Why are the mages kept in circles?  Because Mages once enslaved all of Thedas; rather than being killed outright, mages were kept where they could do less harm to innocent people.  Why did they revolt?  So they could be free to use blood magic and kill people...I mean..to restore Mage rule in Thedas..I mean..can't we all just get along except with like mages in control and stuff?

Not.  the.  same.  thing.  at.  all.  That and your jerkweed mage bomber doesn't exist..so knock off the stupid comparisons. 

[Melca36]

[quote]dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...

[quote]Tuilinn Celeborne wrote...

[quote]HTTP 404 wrote...


im sorry but the american revolutionaries didn't kill innocent people in a church...[/quote]
[/quote]

People keep repeating the myth that no atrocities were committed during the American Revolution. One has only to read about the Sons of Liberty, the treatment of loyalists, or Banastre Tarleton to realize that innocent people always suffer during wartime.

Trinity Church in New York, which had a loyalist pastor, was burned to the ground. Whether the fire was set by patriots or a mob is debateable, depending which side you read.

I suppose it's somehow less atrocious to tar and feather a civilian than to burn him alive in a church? There are numerous accounts of women being raped as well.

One can argue ad nauseam about who the victims are in DA2, but it's time to stop holding up the American Revolution as some sort of bloodless coup.[/quote]

No one is has said the American Revolution was a bloodless coup.  They've said for you to stop comparing your church bombing terrorist pansy mage to the American Revolutionaries. 

Why did the colonists first come to America?  To escape religous persecution.  Why did they revolt?  To be free of a tyrannical monarch.

Why are the mages kept in circles?  Because Mages once enslaved all of Thedas; rather than being killed outright, mages were kept where they could do less harm to innocent people.  Why did they revolt?  So they could be free to use blood magic and kill people...I mean..to restore Mage rule in Thedas..I mean..can't we all just get along except with like mages in control and stuff?

Not.  the.  same.  thing.  at.  all.  That and your jerkweed mage bomber doesn't exist..so knock off the stupid comparisons. 
[/quote]

You are assuming all Mages are evil which is not the case.

In this mage war there will likely be mages fighting blood mages. <_<

[General_Minus]

Mages ARE evil. Most mage should be killed because they were born with magic.

The world is NOT black and white. It's full of grey shades that there are neither no right or wrong choices.

[LTD]

My whine is based exclusively on DA games and not directed against some short stories I will NEVER read.

What the **** is so special about this guy? Why the hell does Alistair/Anders ( I assume everyone can agree it is essentially same character behind different name and class?) need to rubbed on everyone's face on every goddamned game/expansion? Why does he get all this exposure and short stories and streets named after him and keys to the city and whatnot? He is hands down most irritating and poorly written character of the franchise. Somebody actually likes this guy? There is nothing cheaper than the pathetic "cutie self conscious college boy" humor he endlessly vomits on screen.

Modifié par LTD, 11 mai 2011 - 08:41 .

[Retrogue]

Alistair has a much better sense of humor than Anders. I don't think Anders cracked a single joke in DA2 except for something about his kitten swatting a genlock on the nose.

[schalafi]

Retrogue wrote...

Alistair has a much better sense of humor than Anders. I don't think Anders cracked a single joke in DA2 except for something about his kitten swatting a genlock on the nose.

He also joked with Varic about Blackmarsh, saying Beermarsh and Kittenmarch sounded just as bad.

I liked Anders, he was a good LI, and I never killed him. He was the most interesting npc in DA2, IMO
.

Modifié par schalafi, 11 mai 2011 - 11:32 .

[emilymarie0201]

-__- as much as I love Anders, I still think he's bat**** crazy!

[Silfren]

dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...

No one is has said the American Revolution was a bloodless coup.  They've said for you to stop comparing your church bombing terrorist pansy mage to the American Revolutionaries. 

Why did the colonists first come to America?  To escape religous persecution.  Why did they revolt?  To be free of a tyrannical monarch.

Why are the mages kept in circles?  Because Mages once enslaved all of Thedas; rather than being killed outright, mages were kept where they could do less harm to innocent people.  Why did they revolt?  So they could be free to use blood magic and kill people...I mean..to restore Mage rule in Thedas..I mean..can't we all just get along except with like mages in control and stuff?

Not.  the.  same.  thing.  at.  all.  That and your jerkweed mage bomber doesn't exist..so knock off the stupid comparisons. 

You need to stop getting your American history strictly from American textbooks, because you've got a hugely whitewashed understanding of our (yes, I'm American) nation's past.  It wasn't all about religious persecution--some people came here because they, er, didn't find European religion oppressive enough--and revolting wasn't all about escaping tyranny.  Also, quite a lot of people did not want to revolt, but that choice was made for them by others.  

Who are you to say that the mages are revolting in order to use blood magic and kill people, or to restore a magocracy?  You pretend that American history was all noble people fighting for a noble cause, which is blatantly false, and yet you'll deny mages in Thedas the same whitewashing?  It couldn't be that they were trying to escape religious persecution and revolting from tyranny? 

It's not quite so different as you want to believe.  Sorry to shatter your delusions of patriotic grandeur.

[Silfren]

LTD wrote...

My whine is based exclusively on DA games and not directed against some short stories I will NEVER read.

What the **** is so special about this guy? Why the hell does Alistair/Anders ( I assume everyone can agree it is essentially same character behind different name and class?) need to rubbed on everyone's face on every goddamned game/expansion? Why does he get all this exposure and short stories and streets named after him and keys to the city and whatnot? He is hands down most irritating and poorly written character of the franchise. Somebody actually likes this guy? There is nothing cheaper than the pathetic "cutie self conscious college boy" humor he endlessly vomits on screen.

I never saw that much of a similarity between Alistair and Anders. Certainly Anders' place in Awakening was to provide the same role as Alistair in Origins, but that's not the same thing. Anders was self-confident almost to the point of being cocky, whereas Alistair was extremely insecure, and Anders' sense of humor had a decidedly more lewd quality than Alistair's. Didn't see much else similar in their personalities either. Alistair was always hellbent on doing what he viewed as the right thing; Anders, though inclined toward being morally good, was also more geared toward selfishness in the name of self-preservation. Finally, Alistair always seemed somewhat more serious minded in terms of relationships and more laid-back in good-timing. Really the only similarities I see between the two is that they have have a sense of humor, and a dislike for the Chantry despite both identifying as Andrastians.

And hell, some people even insisted they looked a lot of like--never saw that either.

No idea where you get that he's poorly written. I thought he was one of the best written characters of the series.

[Ryzaki]

Why Vengeance lowers his damage resistance is ridculous given that short story.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 mai 2011 - 08:00 .

[Melca36]

General_Minus wrote...

Mages ARE evil. Most mage should be killed because they were born with magic.

The world is NOT black and white. It's full of grey shades that there are neither no right or wrong choices.

Then in that case the people of Thedas need to stop being hypocritical and cease using mages for healing and such.

[sheppard7]

Mooner911 wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...
Just when I thought Bioware couldn't have screwed up Anders any more than they did with DA2, did I read this crap. NOW I think Bioware can't screw him up anymore than they did. What's next? Retconning him back to life if he was stabbed in the heart from the back in the next game with the line from X-Men Origins: Wolverine, "It tickled"?
I was planning on maybe sparing him in my playthrough after the patch just to see what happens. But after reading that farce, he will always die and his legacy will be the same as Bin Ladin.

My Hawke got pig-stuck numerous times in the fight with the Qunari dude. Little Miss Merrill got pig-stuck bigtime on her quest to fix her mirror. We both lived and laughed about it. Anders gets a little shiv in the back and lays down for a while. No arguements from him, no big ugly Justice poppin out and scaring the kids... Anders aint dead. He just needed a plausable exit. Surprise!
Carry on BW...

You nor Merrill had death cut scenes about it, now did you? And your Hawke must suck if you got pig-stuck like that in this game? L2P.

Anders is dead. It's in the dictionary under D-E-A-D. Funny how Bin was mentioned before and he got the Anders treatment since then and no coming back from that.