184 réponses à ce sujet

[Saphean71]

Only done Templar play through once and was not looking forward to killing Anders at th end. Great thing was I didn't have to. He fought the Templars alongside Hawke and was still around for DLC content afterwards. Done mage playthrough loads of times. That way I know Anders will live :-)

[Spedfrom]

FLStyle wrote...

This short story failed in convincing me that this character is anything other than a completely different person with the name Anders lazily slapped on. One of my main problems with Dragon Age II.

No amount of backstory involving Vigil's Keep and Justice will change that.

When I think of the Anders I know, I think of the funny Greg Ellis character from Awakening. Not this other person voiced by Adam Howden.

Bingo! That's why I wanted to sex up Anders in DA2, because I loved the Awakening Anders and resorted to put up with DA2 Anders. As much as a person can change during their lifetime, being something entirely different a few years later is not plausible.

What's the name of the guy that had Jennifer Hepler's job before she came along? I much preferred his work.

Modifié par Spedfrom, 06 avril 2012 - 11:40 .

[NPLMZ]

Anders is just annoying. Nuff said.

[RaiinbowCake]

 Woo Anders 

[katiebour]

Spedfrom wrote...

FLStyle wrote...

This short story failed in convincing me that this character is anything other than a completely different person with the name Anders lazily slapped on. One of my main problems with Dragon Age II.

No amount of backstory involving Vigil's Keep and Justice will change that.

When I think of the Anders I know, I think of the funny Greg Ellis character from Awakening. Not this other person voiced by Adam Howden.

Bingo! That's why I wanted to sex up Anders in DA2, because I loved the Awakening Anders and resorted to put up with DA2 Anders. As much as a person can change during their lifetime, being something entirely different a few years later is not plausible.

What's the name of the guy that had Jennifer Hepler's job before she came along? I much preferred his work.

Go play Awakenings again, and this time pick all the anti-mage, dick rhetoric.  DA2 Anders was there all along- you just didn't see that side of him if you catered to his wants.  He hides behind snark as a defense mechanism in Awakenings- Justice in DA2 strips that away from him and all that's left is the man underneath.

There was no radical personality change- it's just a matter of what he let you see of himself.

Edit:  Or, if you prefer, here's a selection of Awakenings audio clips that I've pulled from the source files and hosted on my Tumblr:

http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHImBFW 
http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHImZlD 
http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHJ0JYK 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHJ01rp 
http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHI-EfH 


http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIyB3s 
http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIvrw_ 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIvUqs 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIujcD 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIsxfQ 


http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIs7Ii 
http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIrb-6 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIr67I 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIq5YN 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIpiNp 


 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIoB8N 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHInbgo 
http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHInMwy 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHImt6l 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIlj-H 


 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIlSLv 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIjjtP 
http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIjF7_ 
http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIiuyz 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIiWvu 


 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIhi7V 
http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIdG_d 
http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIc1pC 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIbW2i 
 http://tmblr.co/ZuCeXxHIZd0x 

Modifié par katiebour, 12 avril 2012 - 01:06 .

[chesschamp]

Waiting for Gaider to do it.

[LobselVith8]

FLStyle wrote...

This short story failed in convincing me that this character is anything other than a completely different person with the name Anders lazily slapped on. One of my main problems with Dragon Age II.

No amount of backstory involving Vigil's Keep and Justice will change that.

When I think of the Anders I know, I think of the funny Greg Ellis character from Awakening. Not this other person voiced by Adam Howden.

Is the short story supposed to be canon? I mean, I don't see why the templars would have an issue with Anders being a member of the Grey Wardens; it's not the first time a mage has become a member of the order, after all. I would think a mage protagonist from the Magi Origin who helped Jowan (a blood mage) would have a bigger issue from the Order of Templars than a mage who simply runs away all the time without committing violence against innocent people. In fact, if The Warden becomes the Warden-Commander and the Arl of Amaranthine, wouldn't the templars have a bigger issue with a mage having political power, along with command over an entire arling (from the City of Amaranthine to the local army now under his command)?

There's also the issue of Anders eating people in the short story, and being immune to weapons, which we know isn't the case in Dragon Age II.

[Silfren]

LobselVith8 wrote...

FLStyle wrote...

This short story failed in convincing me that this character is anything other than a completely different person with the name Anders lazily slapped on. One of my main problems with Dragon Age II.

No amount of backstory involving Vigil's Keep and Justice will change that.

When I think of the Anders I know, I think of the funny Greg Ellis character from Awakening. Not this other person voiced by Adam Howden.

Is the short story supposed to be canon? I mean, I don't see why the templars would have an issue with Anders being a member of the Grey Wardens; it's not the first time a mage has become a member of the order, after all. I would think a mage protagonist from the Magi Origin who helped Jowan (a blood mage) would have a bigger issue from the Order of Templars than a mage who simply runs away all the time without committing violence against innocent people. In fact, if The Warden becomes the Warden-Commander and the Arl of Amaranthine, wouldn't the templars have a bigger issue with a mage having political power, along with command over an entire arling (from the City of Amaranthine to the local army now under his command)?

There's also the issue of Anders eating people in the short story, and being immune to weapons, which we know isn't the case in Dragon Age II.

I've always figured that well, the templars do actually have a problem with mages being in the Grey Wardens.  After all we see that Greagoir strongly objects to the idea, regardless of whether you played the Mage Origin with an obedient or defiant character, and of course Ser Rylock in Awakening had a huge problem with it, defying the monarch's order that Anders' conscription be allowed (as if either of them had any say in the matter, given the RIght of Conscription overrides both Chantry and secular law).  Generally I think templars aren't, overall, happy with the idea of mages having the opportunity to be free of Chantry oversight via the Wardens, and recognize it only when they're forced to, although they seem to fight it with any excuse they can latch on to. 

Remember, Ser Rylock didn't question whether Anders had committed murder at the Keep; she assumed he was guilty and that was that.  So I think templar objection to Anders at that point went beyond his frequent escape attempts, though I DO think that his insistence on esecaping probably did factor into their stance.  After all, they can use Anders' many escape attempts to argue that he would be as likely to try to escape the Wardens as he was the Circle, and use this to contend that the Wardens couldn't be counted on to keep him contained any more than the Circle could.

Another way to look at it would be that templar resentment over a Mage Warden having considerable political power as the ruler of Amaranthine would cause them to be that much more adamant about keeping mages out of the Wardens.  The Hero of Ferelden (excluding the Orlesian Warden, of course) after all has considerable popularity as well as being supported by the monarch, Orzammar, and the powerful Arl of Redcliffe to protect them from Chantry opposition, but the Chantry could react as any resentful toddler would: by being spiteful in whatever other areas over which it felt it could still exert control.

The whole thing about Anders being immune to physical weapons according to this story makes me wonder just what Bioware hoped to accomplish with it, given that it blatantly contradicts the insistence by Gaider that if Hawke stabbed him at the end of DA2, he really is dead. 

Supposedly the story is supposed to merely provide insight into Anders character, but if we can't rely on the events in the story to be canon, how can we expect Anders' characterization in it to be canon as well?

All that aside, I do have to say that I really see nothing at all odd about Anders' evolution from the person he was in Awakening to the person he was in DA2.  People do sometimes change, in hugely dramatic ways, when subjected to traumatic events, such that they could be said to become entirely different people.  It happens all the time.  When you consider that spirits of the Fade are the ultimate expression of single-mindedness, and that Justice was twisted by Anders' anger into the single-minded pursuit of vengeance, it is totally plausible for the Anders of Awakening to be changed into a completely different person.  Anders here IS a different person.  He's meant to be.  It's part of the tragedy of his entire story.

[thats1evildude]

I imagine that the templars didn't have a problem with Grey Warden mages so much as they had a problem with Anders being in the Grey Wardens. Remember, this is the apostate who escaped the Circle of Magi six times. He flaunted the authority of the templars, which is why Rylock and other templars have a personal vendetta with Anders.

As for him shrugging off sword wounds, there's always been a bit of a disparity between the power levels of characters represented in the games and in the books. Templars in the books are described as being able to throw up anti-magic shields. The Spirit of Faith inhabiting Wynne takes down a pride demon on its lonesome in Asunder. Demons themselves withstand insane amounts of punishment; nothing short of decapitation can take them down.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 19 avril 2012 - 11:09 .

[Koire]

"Mages within the Grey Wardens are technically apostates, but are granted reprieve from templar persecution upon recruitment. The harboring of apostates—even blood magic practicing maleficarum—is a point of contention between the two orders, and is only tempered by its relative rarity, due to the Wardens' conservative recruitment standards. Nonetheless, the Wardens are expected to act appropriately if a mage grows beyond their control, else the templars consider the mage's immunity forfeit." ©

And from the short story: 
"Rolan is in front of me now, and the white griffin on his chest plate blurs in my sight with the steel-grey sword-of-flames on his companion's armor, and I know with white-hot certainty that Rolan has betrayed me.
"The Wardens agreed we can't harbor an abomination," he is saying, nasal voice vibrating with smug satisfaction, and I don't need to hear more. He's brought the templars down on me, on us, and this is just what we've been waiting for."

Modifié par Koire, 20 avril 2012 - 01:06 .