142 réponses à ce sujet

[IN1]

At least, the shortest I'm aware of. I show my gear in the video. All stats/talents are totally legit for level 19. You can try the same thing at home, and rape that horned bastard in 10 seconds. But I digress.

The duel, hehe.

Anyway, how come I win this duel in such a manner it looks like I'm cheating, huh? Two main contributing factors are: (1) the use of Defender of the Wall as an off-hand weapon (refer to this thread for more details on D&S rogue); (2) a little bit of luck: non-upgraded Lacerate triggers twice in succession, on both Assassinate and Twin Fangs (more on Lacerate mechanics here).
 

[brazen_nl]

Hahahaha! Epic. \\o/

[IN1]

brazen_nl wrote...

Hahahaha! Epic. o/

I admit I reloaded half a dozen times until Lacerate finally decided to trigger on both abilities. It's a strange and glitchy modal ability, but with very high base damage it's worth to have it activated even on auto-attacks. 

[aethernox]

You've made yet another highly impressive post. Great find on the DW Shield Rogue.

[The Spirit of Dance]

nice lol, your video made me want to use lacerate. i used to think it was usleless, now i see i was dead wrong.

[Nukenin]

You realize that Defender of the Wall being usable by a rogue is likely a bug, as shields should have the property "Requires: Weapon and Shield"?  Apparently you've found a shield missing that property.

While your stats and talents may be legit, don't think you're not getting away with something. 

[_Aine_]

hehe. I can honestly say....mine did NOT happen like that. lol

Nice.

[SuicidalBaby]

Nukenin wrote...

You realize that Defender of the Wall being usable by a rogue is likely a bug, as shields should have the property "Requires: Weapon and Shield"?  Apparently you've found a shield missing that property.

While your stats and talents may be legit, don't think you're not getting away with something. 

The limitations on gear are downright bs. DA:O rogues start with shields.

[IN1]

Nukenin wrote...

You realize that Defender of the Wall being usable by a rogue is likely a bug, as shields should have the property "Requires: Weapon and Shield"?  Apparently you've found a shield missing that property.

While your stats and talents may be legit, don't think you're not getting away with something. 

Yikes. Hypocrisy + ignorance epitomized.

There are five cross-class weapons/shields in this game. I have no need to 'get away' with anything: this result was achieved using a non-modded DA2 ruleset, thus, it is legitimate by definition. If you really wish to be holier than Bioware, please note: no one is forcing you to equip shields as a rogue.

Look, I fully understand the issue is simple: this duel probably took half an hour on Casual during your playthrough, so you find the video extremely irritating to watch and really feel the urge to expose me as a cheater. Still, it's no excuse for posting pretentious trollish BS in this thread.

[Nukenin]

IN1 wrote...

Nukenin wrote...

You realize that Defender of the Wall being usable by a rogue is likely a bug, as shields should have the property "Requires: Weapon and Shield"?  Apparently you've found a shield missing that property.

While your stats and talents may be legit, don't think you're not getting away with something. 

Yikes. Hypocrisy + ignorance epitomized.

There are five cross-class weapons/shields in this game. I have no need to 'get away' with anything: this result was achieved using a non-modded DA2 ruleset, thus, it is legitimate by definition. If you really wish to be holier than Bioware, please note: no one is forcing you to equip shields as a rogue.

Look, I fully understand the issue is simple: this duel probably took half an hour on Casual during your playthrough, so you find the video extremely irritating to watch and really feel the urge to expose me as a cheater. Still, it's no excuse for posting pretentious trollish BS in this thread.

Yowza!  I did not accuse you of cheating (in a single player game, really?); I said you were getting away with something.  With a devilish grin.   It's meant as a sideways compliment.

I do seriously doubt those shields were meant to be wielded by dagger rogues; the lack of "Requires: Weapon and Shield" is likely an oversight.  If you believe otherwise, well, that's your call, but really, Dagger+Shield beats Dagger+Dagger for damage output?  You think that's by design?  Yes, you're getting away with something alright.  Not something to be ashamed of, it's a clever catch and nice demonstration thereof.  And if I'm wrong, and it is by design, well, I'm wrong.  Ain't ashamed to admit it!  They should fix the animations then, though. 

As for the rest of your remarks, take a stress pill!  

[IN1]

I do seriously doubt those shields were meant to be wielded by dagger rogues; the lack of "Requires: Weapon and Shield" is likely an oversight.  If you believe otherwise, well, that's your call, but really, Dagger+Shield beats Dagger+Dagger for damage output?  You think that's by design?  Yes, you're getting away with something alright.  Not something to be ashamed of, it's a clever catch and nice demonstration thereof.  And if I'm wrong, and it is by design, well, I'm wrong.  Ain't ashamed to admit it!  They should fix the animations then, though. 

Your somewhat mediocre attempts at sarcasm are wasted here, I'm afraid, as you are arguing with yourself. 

I have never implied it is by design (a lot of efficient strategies in various role-playing games are not by design, truth be told). I have only stated it is legitimate by current non-modded DA2 ruleset. I hope the difference is evident. 

You are basically putting words into my mouth. Please desist.

[Nukenin]

What words am I putting into your mouth? I honestly don't understand what I've said to provoke such a response.

[Nukenin]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Nukenin wrote...

You realize that Defender of the Wall being usable by a rogue is likely a bug, as shields should have the property "Requires: Weapon and Shield"?  Apparently you've found a shield missing that property.

While your stats and talents may be legit, don't think you're not getting away with something. 

The limitations on gear are downright bs. DA:O rogues start with shields.

Ah, missed this.  I agree.  The chap you see in my pic to the left is very much a dagger+shield rogue from DA:O.  

Unfortunately, DA2 makes presumptions about weapon use, and one of those presumptions is that a rogue uses either a bow (or crossbow if the rogue is a hairy-chested dwarf) or two daggers.  When one of those daggers is replaced with something that may not have been anticipated, the result is a happy aberration, perhaps, but it's still an aberration.  Doesn't make it wrong to have fun with it.

If all shields dropped the "Requires: Weapon and Shield" property and if my rogue Hawke could be shorter and beardier, I'd be all over 'em!

[IN1]

>If you believe otherwise, well, that's your call
>And if I'm wrong, and it is by design, well, I'm wrong. Ain't ashamed to admit it! They should fix >the animations then, though.

The implication was clear: "You choose to believe it's by design, though it's obvious it is not -- at the very least, judging by the inverted shield animation in DW stance". However, I have never claimed it is by design. Your rhetorical strategy is commonly known as 'putting words into opponent's mouth to make his position look utterly stupid/ridiculous, for argument's sake'.

[Nukenin]

IN1 wrote...

>If you believe otherwise, well, that's your call
>And if I'm wrong, and it is by design, well, I'm wrong. Ain't ashamed to admit it! They should fix >the animations then, though.

The implication was clear: "You choose to believe it's by design, though it's obvious it is not -- at the very least, judging by the inverted shield animation in DW stance". However, I have never claimed it is by design. Your rhetorical strategy is commonly known as 'putting words into opponent's mouth to make his position look utterly stupid/ridiculous, for argument's sake'.

Honestly, I think you were just being a bit too defensive in response to my original post, and anything I've written since has unfortunately apparently not helped matters much.

In my original post above I simply stated what I felt to be true, that shields should all have the "Required: Weapon and Shield" property, and that by utilizing a shield that didn't for a DW rogue build, you were getting away with something.  Apparently that was "pretentious trollish BS" (here I'm quoting your words!) but I stand by it.

Apparently you interpreted "getting away with something" with a different spirit than that which I intended.  I'm at a loss as to how to resolve that and our subsequent exchange other than to apologize for any wrongs perceived.  I'm not against you, here, please understand that. :happy:

[Nukenin]

Apparently I use "apparently" too much.

[IN1]

>I'm not against you, here, please understand that. :happy:

In all honesty, I don't care. Now, can we put an end to this insightful discussion, please? Thank you.

[Gage123]

That would have been shorter had lacerate upgraded not been bugged (50% more damage). It's easy to fix though...

[Firky]

Oh no. Even this cool  video (and associated thread) has an argument in it. (Sigh. This forum does my head in.)

One way or another, IN1, every time I open one of your threads I learn several new things about the game. Thanks for your posts!

In this case, I love how you demonstrate that it is possible to get bosses quickly within the rules. Many people are accusing bosses of being tedious. I've thought so myself at times, but the more I struggle through on NM (I'm playing slowly, because life is busy) the more I realise that I can take Commanders down in a 30 seconds, with the right build/approach. (And if I prevent them from healing.) For example.

I think that IN1 just sticks by this mantra, which he said above, "this result was achieved using a non-modded DA2 ruleset, thus, it is legitimate by definition." (That's why he didn't agree with me - ages ago, in an entirely different thread - when I said I thought that beating Tranquility by letting unkillable Anders take the heat was cheesy. That's just my definition of cheese and the way I want to play. Stupidly, I stuck to my guns and failed miserably, probably, 30 times?)

Keep 'em coming, IN1. These little insights into the game are great!

[Nukenin]

IN1 wrote...

>I'm not against you, here, please understand that. :happy:

In all honesty, I don't care. Now, can we put an end to this insightful discussion, please? Thank you.

/insightfuldiscussion

[Nukenin]

Firky wrote...

Oh no. Even this cool  video (and associated thread) has an argument in it. (Sigh. This forum does my head in.)
[…]

Honestly, I didn't mean to start an argument (and will say no more, it's ceased and desisted)!  

I intentionally played a dagger+shield rogue in DA:O with the intent to take Legionnaire Scout as a specialization in DA:A.  I wasn't doing anything crafty or clever; just playing a role.

I honestly hadn't paid attention to items missing the usual restrictions in DA2, so it was a cool revelation and I love the Arishok takedown IN1 posted.

If Hawke could be shorter and beardier, and unrestricted shields the norm, I'd be all over the D+S possibilities.

Honestly, it'd have been nice if the system had avoided explicit restrictions in favor of implicit restrictions (e.g. the Str/Con restrictions on shields serves well enough, as does Str requirement for the weapon side of weapon and shield).  One of my rogue partial playthroughs in DA:O was a 2H-wielding rogue.  Aside from one (I think) weapon there's no way I can do that in DA2 (and I'm not the diehard nightmare-only hardcore player; I just want to goof around with the possibilities at my own pace).

[Firky]

Nukenin wrote...

I honestly hadn't paid attention to items missing the usual restrictions in DA2.

I hadn't either. But they're pretty cool, hey?

I played DW rogue first time through on hard and I still have no idea how that unforgiving chain business works. (*wishes there was more time to play*...*but is happy that I can live vicariously through the videos of others*)

[Teknor]

Nukenin wrote...

/insightfuldiscussion

You are an exemplary poster. No sarcasm. You dealt with a nuclear response nicely.

[Nukenin]

Firky wrote...

Nukenin wrote...

I honestly hadn't paid attention to items missing the usual restrictions in DA2.

I hadn't either. But they're pretty cool, hey?

I played DW rogue first time through on hard and I still have no idea how that unforgiving chain business works. (*wishes there was more time to play*...*but is happy that I can live vicariously through the videos of others*)

Ah, the 2H weapon is Void's Hammer.  I'm currently pushing an archer through as my "pre-patch last hurrah" so when I see that in Act II I know I'm going to be contemplating a mad dash to the Emporium for a Maker's Sigh.

Not that I'd do anything particularly clever with it but it'd be fun to fool around with.

My big problem with Unforgiving Chain is that I'll sit there waiting for the attacks to build up then waste 'em all with some frivolous ability that could've waited.

I don't play DA2 to crunch numbers and optimize strategies so I also live vicariously through those that do and post their excellent guides (and/or the occasional video; I seldom watch gameplay videos but have perused several DA2 vids in the past few weeks).