236 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

You don't know the meaning of the word till you have played Grandia X. Only allowed to save in towns. Compared to the likes of Phantasy Star and Grandia. The Deep Roads is kiddie stuff.

Try Disgaea 3 then, max lvl 9999.

Item/class world would certainly apply.

[Dragoonlordz]

I liked the Deep Roads in DAO and same with the Fade, I've come to notice the most defensive of DA2 are those who hated those places in DAO so I guess they were the ones who screamed loudest prior to DA2 about changes wanted. Now that they got what wanted they are against other fans who liked those aspects screaming loudest for it to come back. It's quite ironic really.

[AkiKishi]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

DA2 is one long deep road.

But without the long or the deep aspect.

One of the few occasions I was glad the game was short.

[Merci357]

Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

It's a negative term, it's the opposite of enjoyment. So, no, I don't wont grinds in any game I play. That said, I do like exploration (and sandbox games), and neither the Fade not the Deep Roads felt grindy at first. Only on the third or any later playthrough they felt that way.

[Persephone]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I liked the Deep Roads in DAO and same with the Fade, I've come to notice the most defensive of DA2 are those who hated those places in DAO so I guess they were the ones who screamed loudest prior to DA2 about changes wanted. Now that they got what wanted they are against other fans who liked those aspects screaming loudest for it to come back. It's quite ironic really.

Speak for yourself.

I am not against anyone who liked the DR or the Fade. And I never once posted a single entry here where I asked Bioware to change ANYTHING.

If you enjoy the DR and The Fade, good for you. 

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Hell NO!!!

One of the reasons why 80% of my DAO characters go into limbo before/after Ostagar are those ridiculously long and tedious padding dungeons. The Deep Roads being the main offender ("Skip the Fade" eliminated another major contender). I also loathed Andraste's bloody temple.

You hated The Sacred Ashes quest

B-but...Epic High Dragon fight...Spirit that reveals insight into the companions emotions and regrets

No, I did not hate the quest. I hated the overly long temple.

I loved Haven and I also really liked the Gauntlet. And the High Dragon is always fun! 

[Thibbledorf26]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Hell NO!!!

One of the reasons why 80% of my DAO characters go into limbo before/after Ostagar are those ridiculously long and tedious padding dungeons. The Deep Roads being the main offender ("Skip the Fade" eliminated another major contender). I also loathed Andraste's bloody temple.

You hated The Sacred Ashes quest

B-but...Epic High Dragon fight...Spirit that reveals insight into the companions emotions and regrets

I think people who hate the Ashes quest hate it for the rather long two dungeons that you have to explore.

edit: :ph34r:ed

Modifié par Thibbledorf26, 09 avril 2011 - 01:59 .

[Fieryeel]

I dun consider Deep Roads a long grind.

In fact, I liked it very much. It gave me the "I am deeeeeeep underground in Darkspawn territory" feeling.

None of that in DA2.

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Hell NO!!!

One of the reasons why 80% of my DAO characters go into limbo before/after Ostagar are those ridiculously long and tedious padding dungeons. The Deep Roads being the main offender ("Skip the Fade" eliminated another major contender). I also loathed Andraste's bloody temple.

You hated The Sacred Ashes quest

B-but...Epic High Dragon fight...Spirit that reveals insight into the companions emotions and regrets

No, I did not hate the quest. I hated the overly long temple.

I loved Haven and I also really liked the Gauntlet. And the High Dragon is always fun! 

BTW, do you think the High Dragon in DA2 was tedious because of the waves and the UNGODLY amounts of HP?

The DA2 High Dragon was both epic and frustrating. However, I managed to tear it down more easily than the Ancient Rock Wraith.

[Dragoonlordz]

The deep roads aspect in DA2 (felt to me) more for the short attention span type of person. That's how it felt imho.

P.s. You can't argue with me about how I feel/felt something towards game as it's not based in fact but emotions (well you can but it would be a silly thing to do). But in that regard it still holds true to me the feeling I got from it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 avril 2011 - 02:12 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I liked the Deep Roads in DAO and same with the Fade, I've come to notice the most defensive of DA2 are those who hated those places in DAO so I guess they were the ones who screamed loudest prior to DA2 about changes wanted. Now that they got what wanted they are against other fans who liked those aspects screaming loudest for it to come back. It's quite ironic really.

Bit of a jump there. At least in my case. I never once complained about such places prior to DA2, nor do I even run mods to skip them on my playthroughs. My dislike of 'grinding as a substitute for fun' is almost completely unrelated to my feelings on either game.

If DA2 suddenly developed long grindy dungeons like the Deep Roads, it wouldn't have even slightly changed the reasons I like the game. And even without such dungeons there still are some grindy-bits. (Enemy waves for example)

I'm not 'against' people wanting them to come back. Just offering my opinion on grinds. I am against screaming loudly though. My ears are sensitive.

[AkiKishi]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

BTW, do you think the High Dragon in DA2 was tedious because of the waves and the UNGODLY amounts of HP?

Probably.

Met my first Trinity Dragon yesterday and it could not be more different. Actually trying to get close to the thing to land different skills (each boss has elemental weakness). Once I worked out what it was I then switched the skills weapons.
The key difference is this. In Trinity when a boss (or large monster) attacks, it needs to to recover, if you can hit it with an opposite element when it is doing so it goes into a "break" state. Becomes staggered and suffers a lot more damage for a couple of seconds.
Unfortunately get it to a certain point and it will then go into a "rage" state where it's damage rockets and it's attacks change. I had "fun" dodging lightning strikes while trying to roll forward and get in some "break" strikes.

Compared to chipping away at huge HP bars and waves of trash, that was a lot more engaging and fun.

[huwie]

Interesting question.

I didn't see anything in DA:O as a grind during my first play-through at all; the gameplay, exploration and unfolding plot were all too exciting for that. I can't quite remember, but the same probably applied in my second playthrough. It was only much later that I felt the need to seek out the "Skip the Fade" mod, for example.

With such a replayable game, perhaps it's inevitable that certain segments end up feeling a bit grindy. To that extent, it's a plus for the game and not a minus. A lesser game wouldn't have had me coming back for more in the same way.

[Abispa]

During my first play through of DA:O, I didn't mind it, but the long grinds have really killed my desire to do another play through. I completed the game all of it's expansions twice, and the second time it was brutal. I've actually started about a dozen games, but there is always a part that I dread doing (Deep Roads and *shudder* The Circle) and I give up. Why do you think PC players use those gimmick programs to alter their saves?

I have played through DA2 five times now. I'm not saying it's perfect, in fact, I'll even say that it as WAS NOT close to what it was trying to achieve as DA:O was. Even though it was deeply flawed, I enjoyed it, and have gotten more enjoyment out of it that I have the first game, which was technically better. If only Bioware could find a happy medium, or at least hire someone who knows how to design levels better than players can come up with with the Neverwinter Nights toolset.

Edited for grammar.

Modifié par Abispa, 09 avril 2011 - 02:44 .

[Kardelo]

DA:O was only a grind for me in my 2nd and 3rd playthrough. The first playthrough was so fun that the circle/deep roads didn't feel like a grind.

[kaimanaMM]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I liked the Deep Roads in DAO and same with the Fade, I've come to notice the most defensive of DA2 are those who hated those places in DAO so I guess they were the ones who screamed loudest prior to DA2 about changes wanted. Now that they got what wanted they are against other fans who liked those aspects screaming loudest for it to come back. It's quite ironic really.

Eh, not so much.

I loved the Deep Roads in DA:O and I was always at the front of the line saying so.  But,  I suppose blanket statments about what people liked and disliked and who got their way and who didn't always works on some level.  

As for the orginal question, no, I don't miss the grind.  One of my least favorite places in DA:O is the Brecilian Forrest. Not the Werewolf caverns, I love me some dungeon crawling, but the forrest section of the game.  And I will say that the grind-y aspect of certain areas of the game (yes, the Fade), did impact my want to replay the game.  I would have loved the Deep Roads in DA2 to be much more like they were in DA:O and for my two cents, I thought the way the Fade was done in Awakening was very nearly perfect.

[CubbieBlue66]

I enjoyed both the Deep Roads and the Fade in DA:O the first time I played through them.

However, each time I started a game thereafter I found there was about a 50/50 chance I'd just dump the character and stop playing the game for a few months rather than have to go through the Fade again.

[DarkAstartes]

I loved the Deep Roads and it never gets old, the Fade I thought was awsome first time through, but it is a bit of a chore on your third or fourth playthrough. Never would i have countenanced removing it from the game though.

In answer to your question, yes, I miss the long dungeons from Origins. The various quests in DA2 are so short they're over before anything remotely interesting has happened. Go to some random place, slay a few waves of enemies, get the item/do the thing and go back. Remember when you entered the Temple of Andraste for the first time in Origins? I looked at the majesty of the environment and salivated at the thought of the awsomeness that was to come. In my opinion that one part of Origins is better than the entirity of DA2.

[barryl89]

I actually liked the fade, for the first five playthroughs. It was fun being a kickass golem. After that I got the mod.

For me the worst part of the game is the wilds to the ogre battle. I always enjoy the feel of Lothering and find myself hanging around there to finish everything.

Deep roads can be boring but Bownammar saves it for me, its just an awesome visual spectacle.


Am I the only person who didn't get annoyed by the repeated areas in DA:2? I mean it is all the same city and surrounding environs so it would be silly if the architecture of every building wasn't similiar. I get why a lot don't like it but I think the settings are so visually interesting that it just about works. Sure they could have created a few more cave types but apart from that I'm ok with it.

[Sanunes]

I thought the Long Roads and the Fade were fine for the first character, but after that it felt long and sluggish to get done there. With that said I think I rather deal with that chore then deal with waves of enemies that just appear, which make the fights in DA2 feel like grinds by themselves.

[Eternal Phoenix]

The deep roads were okay but I hated the fade. I also remember packing up on supplies before heading into the deep roads. It made me get an idea for a game which is a dungeon crawler where you must stock up on supplies, food, water if you wish to survive in the dungeons and caves you explore for whatever reason. It would be a true hardcore RPG.

So they were okay and I especially liked the temple explore near the village of Haven - that's one of my best DA:O quests but additionally - I don't mind the absence of these long treks.

[nopho]

Abispa wrote...

During my first play through of DA:O, I didn't mind it, but the long grinds have really killed my desire to do another play through. I completed the game all of it's expansions twice, and the second time it was brutal. I've actually started about a dozen games, but there is always a part that I dread doing (Deep Roads and *shudder* The Circle) and I give up. Why do you think PC players use those gimmick programs to alter their saves?

I have played through DA2 five times now. I'm not saying it's perfect, in fact, I'll even say that it as WAS NOT close to what it was trying to achieve as DA:O was. Even though it was deeply flawed, I enjoyed it, and have gotten more enjoyment out of it that I have the first game, which was technically better. If only Bioware could find a happy medium, or at least hire someone who knows how to design levels better than players can come up with with the Neverwinter Nights toolset.

Edited for grammar.

you know thats funny, because with me it is actually the other way. i wanted to give DA2 another try and play it a second time but stopped before the first timeskip (the one year working for x) because of how DA2 handles things.
in my eyes it is all one big pile of mashed potatos. the "pick up my kids from school" quest is just a bit shorter than the "visit the deep roads" part, where DA2 breaks the "don't tell, show" rule in just telling me that i have now traveled for x time while i didn't feel any time passsing.
DA2 fails, for me, to present a compelling story because the storyquests vanish somewhere between a bazillion pointless quests in copy-pasted dungeons and endless waves of pointless enemies to strech playtime. i'm all for playtime but it should be streched in a good way.


in fact i actually even just played DA:O 2,5 times but thats because character customisation didn't went deep enough for me.