236 réponses à ce sujet

[_Aine_]

erynnar wrote...

They weren't grinds to me in DAO. I loved the Deep Roads (and hated them too) for their environment. I really did feel isolated, and creeped out (why hated them too, it was as if I was really there, so hated in a good way). My character despises them, as well she should. The Deep Roads in DA2 felt cartoony and strange. Also waaaay too short.

You know that is true... they *were* awfuly short.  And terribly pretty I thought for being underground and pretty much abandoned.  

That was one of the things that really broke immersion for me personally. Everything was so clean.  If they really had travelled so much, and the cities had a TON of extra people in it, things would get dirty quick.  

I REALLY wanted after certain events that happened that I can't say because it is no-spoiler land here for the city to have changed in appearance to reflect said thing that I can't mention. lol  Nothing looked different.  For 7 years, nothing really changed.  Except my hair, and I did that on purpose  

[Thibbledorf26]

Melca36 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I liked the Deep Roads in DAO and same with the Fade, I've come to notice the most defensive of DA2 are those who hated those places in DAO so I guess they were the ones who screamed loudest prior to DA2 about changes wanted. Now that they got what wanted they are against other fans who liked those aspects screaming loudest for it to come back. It's quite ironic really.

The developers should have NEVER pandered to the group. Its that simple.

So the people who didn't want repetitive dungeons or enemies in DAO were responsible for the... reused dungeons and waves of repetitive enemies  in DA2? That doesn't make sense, if anything they should have listened to those people more closely.

The criticisms about the Deep Road and the Fade were about the repetitiveness and length of the grinding, not of the RPG elements or the strategic combat. If areas are more concise some people can enjoy the tactical battles and RPGing more, it isn't much of a challenge facing down the same group ad infinitum, except a challenge to
endurance.

You can not blame the simplification of the RPG mechanics and dialogue, or areas, on this group. If anything, they
wanted more unique areas. The RPG mechanics were not part of the stated problem with the Deep Roads or the Fade.

Modifié par Thibbledorf26, 09 avril 2011 - 10:45 .

[erynnar]

shantisands wrote...

erynnar wrote...

They weren't grinds to me in DAO. I loved the Deep Roads (and hated them too) for their environment. I really did feel isolated, and creeped out (why hated them too, it was as if I was really there, so hated in a good way). My character despises them, as well she should. The Deep Roads in DA2 felt cartoony and strange. Also waaaay too short.

You know that is true... they *were* awfuly short.  And terribly pretty I thought for being underground and pretty much abandoned.  

That was one of the things that really broke immersion for me personally. Everything was so clean.  If they really had travelled so much, and the cities had a TON of extra people in it, things would get dirty quick.  

I REALLY wanted after certain events that happened that I can't say because it is no-spoiler land here for the city to have changed in appearance to reflect said thing that I can't mention. lol  Nothing looked different.  For 7 years, nothing really changed.  Except my hair, and I did that on purpose  

I also wanted to see skeletons of dwarves or massive piles of bones and rusted armor, or scattered bones. All the thaigs (in DAO too) felt as if everyone had escaped rather than being trapped like the history said. And it would have pulled at the heartstrings. The weird Thaig though, we don't know what happened. DId its people simply leave in a mass exodus for some reason?  So, I can't complain too much about the DA2 thaig as we know so little about it in that regard. I am going to **** that we didn't get more immersion into the thaig, more exploration of it. Finding stone tablets or tomes with a form of ancient dwarvish that can barely be read by Varric and would need to be carried out to say the circle? Sooo much potential there for a story. 

Hmmm, I think I will put some of that in fanfiction. In my fanfic on my Warden, DR are going to be littered with bones and things.

[TJSolo]

I thought the bit in the Deep Roads that explained how Broomothers are made would explain the scarcity of meat and bones after a Darkspawn invasion.

Modifié par TJSolo, 09 avril 2011 - 11:29 .

[Hatchetman77]

I HATED the Deep Roads in DA:O but they grew on me in time.  The fade was kinda long too but come on, those extra stat points were awesome.

[Morroian]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

I HATED the Deep Roads in DA:O but they grew on me in time.  The fade was kinda long too but come on, those extra stat points were awesome.

The skip the fade mod that gave you all thos stats while skipping the fade was even more awesome.

[Soul Cool]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

You don't know the meaning of the word till you have played Grandia X. Only allowed to save in towns. Compared to the likes of Phantasy Star and Grandia. The Deep Roads is kiddie stuff.

Try Disgaea 3 then, max lvl 9999.

Try 185,000. Unless you really had a death wish.

[thesilverlinedviking]

I don't personally see how grinding fits into a single-player RPG. It only works in MMOs.

[Taritu]

I liked both, the first time. Heck, I even like the Deep Roads every time. The Fade got tired pretty quick, but most players will only do it once, and I don't think the fact that I hate it after having done 8 times should carry any weight.

As for the deep roads, they should be a horrible dangerous scary disgusting slog.

[erynnar]

TJSolo wrote...

I thought the bit in the Deep Roads that explained how Broomothers are made would explain the scarcity of meat and bones after a Darkspawn invasion.

hmm good point. though there would still be bones from the long ago battles, wouldn't there? I will have to think on this.

[Lumikki]

Hell no, I never miss grinding. Who to hell would like to grind? Grinding is about doing same thing over and over to get progression. That's grinding.

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 avril 2011 - 04:06 .

[Xerxes52]

I didn't care much for the fade portion in DA:O (although now I have it down to the point I could do it in my sleep, so it's not so bad), but the Deep Roads/Dwarven Thaigs in DA:O, DA:A, and GoA were some of my favorite parts of the game (especially when I had my Pandorum or Event Horizon soundtracks playing).

[Treasure Woman]

Nope. Don't miss them at all.

[erynnar]

I didn't have long grinds in DAO. However, DA2 has become one long tedious grind in and of itself. Which is sad. Reminds me of an MMORPG. Run here run there, flag to flag. And what is pathetic is the illusion of choice is an illusion. The the railroaded, ham fisted forcing of the story.This really could have been better than DAO, and it just became one long series of fetch quests in reused dungeons for a story that well, fell flat due to all the plot holes puncturing it.

[AkiKishi]

Teddie Sage wrote...

saresy wrote...

No.

This.

No one f-ing likes to grind in video games. Especially in WRPGs. That's for JRPGs.

In most cases in JRPGs it's purely optional. There is usually some potion,item or skill that turns off the basic encounters.Or they are set in such a way that you can dodge the indicators on the map.

[MorrigansLove]

Thankyou all for commenting.

[SerenityRebirth]

I do agree with the notion. I wish that it was a bit longer so that it feels as long and strenuous as you would assume. I had this conversation with a friend just two days ago.

[Lyssar]

I miss them!
The deep roads in DA:O gave me the chills. It was mainly due to the story, but the length certainly played into it. Imagining going deeper and deeper underground sort of triggered my claustrophobia. In DA2 I felt no such thing.
The fade was also a bit disappointing. It was way too short for my taste. However I liked the reactions of the companions and that you could talk to them about it.

[sphinxess]

Enjoyed the deep roads in DA:O. They needed to be long to fit the story. In DA2 it was way too short on exploration and there was never any sense of awe - at a certain point I expected a large space and instead got a tunnel. I never got the feeling I was in a ancient area - statues of Dwarves no longer there and I am supposed to go owwwww?

The fade in DA:O was rather fun - only if I tried for every single bonus point did it become a grind. The fade this time didn't add a thing to knowledge of how it works - indeed I felt it flawed from what it forced your party members to do no matter what.

[TheTouch]

I do think that areas should have been larger in DA2, but they were far closer to optimal than was the case in Origins.

[FaeQueenCory]

Count me in with the crazies.... Not that I ever attest to being sane... or even human.

But I LOVE the Sloth Demon Fade part of the Circle Tower quest.... It further reinforced just how bizarre and beautiful the Fade is... Unlike in DA2 where they just took some stars and hung them from the Gallows' inside..... Though it makes sense for that DA2's Fade stint will be a lot smaller since we travel to the mind of a mortal and not the domain of a demon.... then again, Connor's mind section of the Fade was a lot better done then Feynriel's...
And the Deep Roads, even though there are WAY too many spiders... (in BOTH, and it's not that they're scary... just annoying.) Just the texture alone (though I suppose it was changed to fit the new style) made Origins' Deep Roads fell like what they were: abandoned highways and thaigs of the Dwarves overrun with Darkspawn... Considering the Ancient Thaig is supposed to be further down than anyone has ever gone... there was a severe lack of Darkspawn taint.

[Flamingdropbear]

Do I miss long Grinds? No.
Do I miss long missions? Gods yes.
The difference is that grinds have no purpose, missions seem to have a purpose, even if both just entail killing a bunch of dudes and picking up plot coupons. The deep roads inn DAO was one of my favourite missions. It was well built towards with the whole dwaven political mess, forging into enemy terretory, trying to retrace Branka's steps, from last know location, through caves following signs of her passage, to an abandoned city housing a brood mother then on to the location of the forge. I knew what I was doing, I knew why I was doing it. And it felt like i was deep down a mine, difficult and time consuming to get in and out. By the end if felt like i had fought and overcome something as opposed to just clearing out a room of respawning bandits.

[errant_knight]

Lyssar wrote...

I miss them!
The deep roads in DA:O gave me the chills. It was mainly due to the story, but the length certainly played into it. Imagining going deeper and deeper underground sort of triggered my claustrophobia. In DA2 I felt no such thing.
The fade was also a bit disappointing. It was way too short for my taste. However I liked the reactions of the companions and that you could talk to them about it.

To me, the very short length of quests, overall, was one of the reasons that everything felt like an afternoon's errand. It made everything feel trivial.

[FaeQueenCory]

Flamingdropbear wrote...

Do I miss long Grinds? No.
Do I miss long missions? Gods yes.
The difference is that grinds have no purpose, missions seem to have a purpose, even if both just entail killing a bunch of dudes and picking up plot coupons. The deep roads inn DAO was one of my favourite missions. It was well built towards with the whole dwaven political mess, forging into enemy terretory, trying to retrace Branka's steps, from last know location, through caves following signs of her passage, to an abandoned city housing a brood mother then on to the location of the forge. I knew what I was doing, I knew why I was doing it. And it felt like i was deep down a mine, difficult and time consuming to get in and out. By the end if felt like i had fought and overcome something as opposed to just clearing out a room of respawning bandits.

Agreed. This distinction between grinding and really long missions should be made.