87 réponses à ce sujet

[LordJeyl]

Last Vizard wrote...  without EARTH we are F'd in the A as a race, the other races can afford to lose some worlds but for us its game over and hello Batarian slavers that the council does so little about.

Why would losing Earth be game over? Didn't the Mass Effect universe already establish that we have other worlds that were colonized by humans exclusively? How exactly would losing our planet to the Reapers mean the end of humanity? There are plenty of other planets that are habitable by humans and the Alliance has plenty of allies in the long long to ensure that even with 500 humans left, we would still survive as a race. 

I just disapprove of Shepard's attitude that the only thing that makes her act is that one planet that may not even be his/her home in the first place. If the galaxy and every living thing in it is the real target, that should be the key motivation. Not just Earth.

[Gill Kaiser]

The colonies are as nothing compared to Earth. At most each colony has 100 million or so. Earth has 11 billion, and is the centre of our cultural, industrial, economic and agricultural production.

[LordJeyl]

Tony Gunslinger wrote... And if you'v actually played the DLC and payed attention instead of looking for excuses to support your internal rage habits, you would see that the Alpha Relay directly connects to Earth's mass relay. It's shown on the galaxy map, with a red line connecting the Viper Nebula to the Local Cluster.

Ok. So out of all the systems that have working relays, the one that the Reapers choose to arrive at first is the one that directly links to Earth. That's just so gratuitously convenient it's comical, especially when "The Arrival" DLC was released more than a year after the release of Mass Effect 2 with about as much production value as Witch Hunt. 

[LordJeyl]

Gill Kaiser wrote...The colonies are as nothing compared to Earth. At most each colony has 100 million or so. Earth has 11 billion

It's called sex and you can reproduce more than once. Repopulation is not a problem.

Gill Kaiser wrote... and is the centre of our cultural, industrial, economic and agricultural production.

And that can't easily change? I don't know about you, but the European Pilgrims who settled on the new land seemed to have done ok for themselves. If you really believe that things can only get done on Earth, you're not giving humanity much credit.

[HK-90210]

LordJeyl wrote...

Tony Gunslinger wrote... And if you'v actually played the DLC and payed attention instead of looking for excuses to support your internal rage habits, you would see that the Alpha Relay directly connects to Earth's mass relay. It's shown on the galaxy map, with a red line connecting the Viper Nebula to the Local Cluster.

Ok. So out of all the systems that have working relays, the one that the Reapers choose to arrive at first is the one that directly links to Earth. That's just so gratuitously convenient it's comical, especially when "The Arrival" DLC was released more than a year after the release of Mass Effect 2 with about as much production value as Witch Hunt. 

What's 'convenient' about it? The Reapers are targeting humans. They want to eliminate the greatest threat, and they consider humans the greatest threat. It should not be a surprise. The only groups that have managed to deal any damage to their operations in the galaxy have been a multi-racial fleet led by humans and Cerberus(a human splinter group).

Humanity is simply numero uno on the Reapers' hit list.

[NoUserNameHere]

Arrival being writen by the B-team aside, The Reapers pretty obviously have it out for humanity. They just so happen to be targeting Earth first because of it.

[N7Infernox]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

Arrival being writen by the B-team aside, The Reapers pretty obviously have it out for humanity. They just so happen to be targeting Earth first because of it.

Earth is also the closest homeworlds for the Reapers to reach.

[wolfennights]

Shepard is a human.

Of course the first place (s)he'll assume the Reapers will attack will be Earth.

If Shepard were a Turian, and the Reapers were coming, then (s)he'd prolly assume the first place to be attacked would be the Turian homeworld.

[Tony Gunslinger]

LordJeyl wrote...
Ok. So out of all the systems that have working relays, the one that the Reapers choose to arrive at first is the one that directly links to Earth. That's just so gratuitously convenient it's comical, especially when "The Arrival" DLC was released more than a year after the release of Mass Effect 2 with about as much production value as Witch Hunt. 

Instead of claiming that the Alpha Relay linking to Earth is awful writing, you should convince me why it would be better writing if the Alpha Relay was instead linked to, say, the Turian homeworld. Or Asari. I don't care, pick whatever you think is better and make your case.

I seriously doubt that you can.

[Nathan Redgrave]

You care far too much about little things, OP. The idea was less that Shepard knew the Reapers were targeting Earth, and more that Shepard knew they could easily reach Earth (and wherever else) in two days. Shepard is a human. S/he therefore has a primal concern for Earth's safety. Interpret this however you like: human-supremecist Shepard jumps to Earth's defense rather than the galaxy's; alien-lover Shepard just makes a harmless little Freudian slip of sorts; Shepard simply makes a leap in logic between the Collectors targetting humanity and the Reapers targeting humanity. The only reason the line bugs you is 'cause you have a problem with the story outside of the immediate context of that line.

Also, "could" is not "will." Thank you.

As a practical note: for most players, the mention of "Earth" specifically brings a certain sense of urgency with it that the mention of some fictional planet would not. Easier to feel protective of something that actually exists, you see.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 09 avril 2011 - 06:55 .

[LordJeyl]

CastonFolarus wrote... What's 'convenient' about it? The Reapers are targeting humans. They want to eliminate the greatest threat, and they consider humans the greatest threat.

Wasn't it the Collector's under the control of Harbinger that was targeting humans for the sake of making a Human Reaper? No where did they mention that they wanted humans  because they were their greatest threat. They were targeting hum but because they had the most vast genetic material. 

[Almostfaceman]

LordJeyl wrote...

CastonFolarus wrote... What's 'convenient' about it? The Reapers are targeting humans. They want to eliminate the greatest threat, and they consider humans the greatest threat.

Wasn't it the Collector's under the control of Harbinger that was targeting humans for the sake of making a Human Reaper? No where did they mention that they wanted humans  because they were their greatest threat. They were targeting hum but because they had the most vast genetic material. 

At the very beginning of the game (watch TiM talking to Shep) the story makes the point that the Reapers are going to "respect" or "fear" or "take note" that a human killed one of them.  Deductive leap - so, if Shep is a human, it's possible that wow, the Reapers would be interested in humans and they'd be interested in Shep!

Reaper: *looks at humans under a microscope* - Hey! If we combine this strand of genetic mistake with our vastly superior make-up, we'll get .045% less heartburn!  Bonus!

[LordJeyl]

Tony Gunslinger wrote... Instead of claiming that the Alpha Relay linking to Earth is awful writing, you should convince me why it would be better writing if the Alpha Relay was instead linked to, say, the Turian homeworld. Or Asari. I don't care, pick whatever you think is better and make your case.

Alright, I'll do it. Just one thing though. I'm going to take your question and add one unrealistic element to it in order to better demonstrate the point I'm trying to make. Let's say that the Reapers did go to one of the many other home worlds in the galaxy instead of Earth. When the Reapers get their, they destroy their planet and in doing so somehow causes that said species to become extinct. Gone. Even the colonies and immigrants on other worlds somehow heard news of their home world's destruction and they all die out due to broken hearts, or whatever.

So here's the risk. The Reapers have invaded and destroyed the Assari home world, thus causing the Assari to become extinct. No more Assari in any future Mass Effect story. Period. When I see it that way, it doesn't become a just a race to save the galaxy, but a race to save a whole entire species that are a part of the Mass Effect universe. I's these races, not humans, that make the Mass Effect universe unique, fun and different from all the other scifi universes that are out there. If you lose them and still have the humans, the story wouldn't be that interesting. Familiarity, while certainly something you can get more attached to, is also prone to be more generic, predictable and boring, because it's something you expect.

Now, if Earth was to be destroyed and all the humans went extinct, the Mass Effect universe would still have it's other races. I don't see that as much of a bad thing because humans pretty much already make up 99% of all scifi stories in existence. If having no humans bothered me, I could always watch Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica or play Halo, Duke Nukem, Command and Conquer, ect. Humans are every where in science fiction. The races in Mass Effect on the other hand only inhabit this one universe. When they're gone, they're gone. That is why I'm not excited about the prospect of saving Earth. It's a story that's been done a million times over, and I've grown to know and like these other races enough to care about them more than just that one planet I've seen be saved again and again.

[Biotic_Warlock]

"Shepard, what part of "anywhere in the galaxy" does it say "WE'RE INVADING EARTH!"? Sure, the Reapers will no doubt get to Earth, but aren't we forgetting a something else?"

Haha, so true, so true.
It makes no sense at all.

[armass]

I would imagine turians are on the top of their hit list too since turians have the largest fleet in the galaxy. Would be pretty stupid if reapers mostly ignore the hierarchy in favor of earth. The fact that they have batarian husks show they have at least invaded part of batarian space by now.

Even if Earth get's destroyed, humans still have Eden Prime and Terra Nova, our most succesful colonies, not to mention Bekenstein. I would weep for the animals and plants tough, millions of species would be extinquished. And the loss of homeworld would weaken us significally as species, not to the point of quarians but almost.

Modifié par armass, 09 avril 2011 - 08:05 .

[KingSnake661]

Few points, IMO.

1st. Shepards comment about them being at Earth in 2 days was him, basically stating his worst case seniro, that they "could" be to earth in 2 days, not nessessirly that they would be.

2. If you look at the map, once you blow the relay, the next closest relay is earths. On both maps, the sol system is the lowest system on right hand side, so it's the reapers first stop cause it has to be.

3. Since earth is the starting point, and shepard is feeing from earth, it stands to reason the majority of the game will prolly take place OFF earth. And yeah, the fae of the whole galaxie is on the line, but earth is first on the hit list, not the only target on the hit list. It's not a save earth story, it really is a save the galaxie story, and frankly, in Sci Fi, IMO, that's almost a common and clichad as the plain old save earth concept.

4. Bioware's stories, all of them, are common Archatype stories. What makes them GOOD is the writing and charater development. They can tell a good story, they have so far, and i think they'll finish well enough.

[Tony Gunslinger]

LordJeyl wrote...
Alright, I'll do it. Just one thing though. I'm going to take your question and add one unrealistic element to it in order to better demonstrate the point I'm trying to make. Let's say that the Reapers did go to one of the many other home worlds in the galaxy instead of Earth. When the Reapers get their, they destroy their planet and in doing so somehow causes that said species to become extinct. Gone. Even the colonies and immigrants on other worlds somehow heard news of their home world's destruction and they all die out due to broken hearts, or whatever.

So here's the risk. The Reapers have invaded and destroyed the Assari home world, thus causing the Assari to become extinct. No more Assari in any future Mass Effect story. Period. When I see it that way, it doesn't become a just a race to save the galaxy, but a race to save a whole entire species that are a part of the Mass Effect universe. I's these races, not humans, that make the Mass Effect universe unique, fun and different from all the other scifi universes that are out there. If you lose them and still have the humans, the story wouldn't be that interesting. Familiarity, while certainly something you can get more attached to, is also prone to be more generic, predictable and boring, because it's something you expect.

Now, if Earth was to be destroyed and all the humans went extinct, the Mass Effect universe would still have it's other races. I don't see that as much of a bad thing because humans pretty much already make up 99% of all scifi stories in existence. If having no humans bothered me, I could always watch Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica or play Halo, Duke Nukem, Command and Conquer, ect. Humans are every where in science fiction. The races in Mass Effect on the other hand only inhabit this one universe. When they're gone, they're gone. That is why I'm not excited about the prospect of saving Earth. It's a story that's been done a million times over, and I've grown to know and like these other races enough to care about them more than just that one planet I've seen be saved again and again.

If the Asari homeworld was attacked, the Council will take immediate action, especially the Asari Council members. Same is true if the Turians, Hanar, Salarians, Volus, Elcor homeworlds. Earth is relatively new to the galactic community and is seen as an aggressive race. It would be harder for Shepard, who is human, to get galactic support to help humans than is to get galactic support to help the Asari. The dramatic conflict in the human narrartive is stronger. There is less conflict or tension in the Asari narrative because you'd know exactly what the council will do.

So far, all renegade Shepard's decions favors human dominance, while paragon Shepard favors intergalactic diversity. ME3's outcome will largely depend on your previous choices. Judging by what we have so far, a renegade Shepard will have a stronger human race at his side (Cerberus, human Council members, Collector Base tech) at the cost of a weaker intergalactic support (killed Rachni, resentment of humans), while a paragon will have a weaker human race but more intergalactic allies to get help from. If ME3's main story arc was to save the Asari, Shepard's previous paragon/renegade decisions matters less because it's about the Asari. If you asked another race to help the Asari, does it really matter to them if you were a human supremecist or an alien lover? It doesn't matter because it's the Asari, not humans.

In short, Shepard needs to do more work if the humans were attacked. More dramatic tension, more storylines, more twists, betrayals, friendship, animosity, persuasion, imtimidation.

[KainrycKarr]

As long as the Earth is merely part of saving the galaxy in ME3, and not the entire main plot, I'm happy.

I understand the logic behind it, but from a gameplay perspective, I'm just not that interested in defending Earth from invasion - for the fifty billionth time that I have done so throughout my gaming career.

[Tony Gunslinger]

KainrycKarr wrote...

As long as the Earth is merely part of saving the galaxy in ME3, and not the entire main plot, I'm happy.

I understand the logic behind it, but from a gameplay perspective, I'm just not that interested in defending Earth from invasion - for the fifty billionth time that I have done so throughout my gaming career.

I'm pretty that won't be the case. Attacking/saving Earth is not the main storyline, but Earth being attacked by the Reapers adds another layer of politics that Shepard must overcome, and that's the drama.

IE:

Shep: It's not about the humans, it's about the Reapers!
Turian: RIght, why should I believe you when everything you've done has been to make humans stronger?

Which is better than:

Turian: The Asari homeworld is being attacked? We should mobilize the troops!
Shep: Ok, thanks.

[LordJeyl]

Tony Gunslinger wrote... Turian: The Asari homeworld is being attacked? We should mobilize the troops!
Shep: Ok, thanks.

I'm certain that  Shepard will think a little differently if he/she is still involved with a particular Assari.

[naledgeborn]

The "Alpha Relay" is connected to 16 other Relays the closest being Charon (Sol). It's all in the codex. The Reapers having access to 16 Relays from which each diverges into multiple Relays and Solar Systems is a bad thing. But bottom line Shepard is Human. If it were Saren in Arrival trying to stop the Reapers he'd be sweating Palaven, same with Vassir and Thessia.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Even if Shepard is a colonist or a spacer, Earth is still a significant place in the minds of most humans. They haven't been a spacefaring species long enough for that to have been worked out of their society's system--even if you weren't born on Earth, you're going to be hearing about it. Like how New York City is kind of a significant place in my mind even though I honestly don't give a damn about anything going on there. I hear about it, and am likely to mention it offhand at any given time, because everyone else mentions it at some point.

At any rate, I repeat, what Shepard says is that they "could" be at Earth. There's nothing in that statement to suggest that he knows this to be their destination. It's just a way for Shepard and the player to grasp the gravity of the situation on a basic, personal level: the Reapers could be bombarding Earth in two days. This is a thought that's intended to communicate to the player how close the Reapers are, not what they plan to do.

[Nathan Redgrave]

KainrycKarr wrote...

As long as the Earth is merely part of saving the galaxy in ME3, and not the entire main plot, I'm happy.

I understand the logic behind it, but from a gameplay perspective, I'm just not that interested in defending Earth from invasion - for the fifty billionth time that I have done so throughout my gaming career.

Then look at it from a "Grey Warden" point of view. Yes, "Ferelden" is in danger, and it'd be great if you manage to save "Ferelden" specifically, but the real danger is that the "Blight" (or the Reapers, as it were) will spread beyond Ferelden to engulf everyone else. So stopping it here benefits the entire galaxy. It also provides a situation where both a galaxy-centric Paragon and a human-centric Renegade have equally strong motivation to stop the Reapers where they are--either they don't want the invasion to spread beyond Earth, or they want to save Earth before the Reapers finish their dirty work.

[008Zulu]

Yeah, why go for the Citadel and shut down all relays first when you can attack earth with all your might leaving every other species out there with the ability to move freely and assemble their forces?

Is it once again pure human arrogance to assume they we would be the first target? Reapers are AIs remember, they dont have emotions so revenge doesnt factor in to it.

Modifié par 008Zulu, 10 avril 2011 - 01:48 .

[Agamo45]

I should think that a human would be more concerned about the well-being of the birthplace of humanity, over that of some alien world.