87 réponses à ce sujet

[008Zulu]

Considering humanity doesn't have the resources to combat the Reapers, some people are going to have to put aside their prejudices if they want earth to survive.

[Varus Praetor]

It's two human's talking about the immanent invasion of giant killer machines...and you're upset because they aren't asking about the Asari, Turians, or one of the other races BEFORE turning the conversation to the impending doom of the Human homeworld? Congrats, you fail as a member of our species. Your membership card is revoked.

Saving the galaxy is all well and good, but force any human to choose between an alien world and Earth, the choice had better be crystal clear.

[Last Vizard]

LordJeyl wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...  without EARTH we are F'd in the A as a race, the other races can afford to lose some worlds but for us its game over and hello Batarian slavers that the council does so little about.

Why would losing Earth be game over? Didn't the Mass Effect universe already establish that we have other worlds that were colonized by humans exclusively? How exactly would losing our planet to the Reapers mean the end of humanity? There are plenty of other planets that are habitable by humans and the Alliance has plenty of allies in the long long to ensure that even with 500 humans left, we would still survive as a race. 

I just disapprove of Shepard's attitude that the only thing that makes her act is that one planet that may not even be his/her home in the first place. If the galaxy and every living thing in it is the real target, that should be the key motivation. Not just Earth.

1. how large does a breeding population need to be? don't want any inbreeding like some royal family.
2. each of those colonies provides Earth with raw materials, Earth has the majority industry.... without the demand from Earths industry then the colonies have noone to supply (why would aliens buy our materials... don't they have their own worlds?)
3. each colony has a very low population, too low to have consumer bodies large enough to support themselves..... Game over economy... hello slavers when our ships start to fall apart.
4. no more council seat, but hey they always look after minority races... Quarian told me so. (oh, how many war ships will be left after the war with the Reaper?).

[GuardianAngel470]

LordJeyl wrote...

Dr. Kenson may have found proof that the Reapers will be invading the galaxy, but I found proof that Bioware is going to turn Shepard into an inconsiderate a**hole in Mass Effect 3 regardless of whether he/she will be a Paragon or Renegade.
Dr. Kenson: We found proof that the Reapers will be arriving in this system. When they get here, they'll use it's mass relay to travel throughout the galaxy. We call it the "Alpha Relay". From here, the Reapers can invade anywhere in the galaxy.
So we've established that the relay will be used by the Reapers to invade ANYWHERE in the galaxy and that the Reapers are the bad guys who want to destroy all life in the galaxy. That should be a huge deciding factor for Shepard in wanting to help out, right?....
Dr. Kenson: In just over forty-eight hours, the pulse will become constant, and the Reapers will be here.Shepard: You're saying the Reapers could be at EARTH in two days?
Shepard, what part of "anywhere in the galaxy" does it say "WE'RE INVADING EARTH!"? Sure, the Reapers will no doubt get to Earth, but aren't we forgetting a something else?



I want to point out that the Local Cluster is the closest settled cluster to the Viper Nebula, where Arrival takes place (as per the ME1 galaxy map).


- Asari- Drell- Elcor- Hanar- Keepers- Salarians- Turians- Volus- Batarians- Geth- Krogen- Quarians- Vorcha- Rachni (depending on your ME1 playthrough)
So I guess Shepard doesn't care much about any of the other races as long as Earth is saved. Earth, a planet that so far has yet to have any significance in the Mass Effect universe outside of being the planet of origins for the human race. I just don't understand why Shepard is so "We must save Earth!" when there are so many other things at stake besides his own specie's home world. And what's the worst that can happen if Earth is wiped out? It's not like every single human being in the galaxy lives there. What about the human colony on Bekenstein? Or the humans living on the Citadel? Cripes, we even have human families living on Omega! 

This is going to bug me right up until the release of ME3. When Bioware uses "epic conclusion" to it's galaxy spanding series, the last thing I would even remotely think about is the story driven cliché of Earth being invaded by aliens and we must save it. It's not epic at all. It's just unoriginal, uninspired and for a universe like Mass Effect, unimportant.

I want to point out that the Local Cluster is the closest settled cluster to the Viper Nebula, where Arrival takes place (as per the ME1 and ME2 galaxy maps). It is also the first stop using the Viper Nebula's Alpha Relay that the Galaxy map registers.

Therefore, it is completely logical for Shepard's first reaction to be the protection of Earth. It is the most likely first target of the Reapers based on proximity and the Alpha Relay's connections.

It is also the closest target for the Reapers to get to if they flew the normal way.

[GuardianAngel470]

Last Vizard wrote...

LordJeyl wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...  without EARTH we are F'd in the A as a race, the other races can afford to lose some worlds but for us its game over and hello Batarian slavers that the council does so little about.

Why would losing Earth be game over? Didn't the Mass Effect universe already establish that we have other worlds that were colonized by humans exclusively? How exactly would losing our planet to the Reapers mean the end of humanity? There are plenty of other planets that are habitable by humans and the Alliance has plenty of allies in the long long to ensure that even with 500 humans left, we would still survive as a race. 

I just disapprove of Shepard's attitude that the only thing that makes her act is that one planet that may not even be his/her home in the first place. If the galaxy and every living thing in it is the real target, that should be the key motivation. Not just Earth.

1. how large does a breeding population need to be? don't want any inbreeding like some royal family.
2. each of those colonies provides Earth with raw materials, Earth has the majority industry.... without the demand from Earths industry then the colonies have noone to supply (why would aliens buy our materials... don't they have their own worlds?)
3. each colony has a very low population, too low to have consumer bodies large enough to support themselves..... Game over economy... hello slavers when our ships start to fall apart.
4. no more council seat, but hey they always look after minority races... Quarian told me so. (oh, how many war ships will be left after the war with the Reaper?).

Terra Nova has a population of 4+ million, well in excess of what is needed to sustain genetic viability.

[008Zulu]

Varus Praetor wrote...

It's two human's talking about the immanent invasion of giant killer machines...and you're upset because they aren't asking about the Asari, Turians, or one of the other races BEFORE turning the conversation to the impending doom of the Human homeworld? Congrats, you fail as a member of our species. Your membership card is revoked.

Saving the galaxy is all well and good, but force any human to choose between an alien world and Earth, the choice had better be crystal clear.

If the Reaper battle plan is to attack earth first (If you go Paragon and get the whole galaxy behind you for support) then no matter what the Reapers say I will only hear "Derpa dur!". If you got the whole galaxy behind you then in order to make sure you arent facing a combined fleet you take out their primary mode of transportation, which can only be done at the Citadel.

The Reapers want earth yes, but they wouldn't be stupid enough to keep the door open for a combined fleet to attack them while most of them are on the surface.

[marshalleck]

I find it odd that as emotionally invested in the story as OP claims to be, he or she apparently hasn't spent much time reading the codex at all. If they had, they would know why losing Earth would be catastrophic to the species (besides the obvious drama of losing our homeworld.)

[Il Divo]

marshalleck wrote...

I find it odd that as emotionally invested in the story as OP claims to be, he or she apparently hasn't spent much time reading the codex at all. If they had, they would know why losing Earth would be catastrophic to the species (besides the obvious drama of losing our homeworld.)

Just look at the Quarians to illustrate this point, from both an emotional and a practical viewpoint.

[Last Vizard]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

LordJeyl wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...  without EARTH we are F'd in the A as a race, the other races can afford to lose some worlds but for us its game over and hello Batarian slavers that the council does so little about.

Why would losing Earth be game over? Didn't the Mass Effect universe already establish that we have other worlds that were colonized by humans exclusively? How exactly would losing our planet to the Reapers mean the end of humanity? There are plenty of other planets that are habitable by humans and the Alliance has plenty of allies in the long long to ensure that even with 500 humans left, we would still survive as a race. 

I just disapprove of Shepard's attitude that the only thing that makes her act is that one planet that may not even be his/her home in the first place. If the galaxy and every living thing in it is the real target, that should be the key motivation. Not just Earth.

1. how large does a breeding population need to be? don't want any inbreeding like some royal family.
2. each of those colonies provides Earth with raw materials, Earth has the majority industry.... without the demand from Earths industry then the colonies have noone to supply (why would aliens buy our materials... don't they have their own worlds?)
3. each colony has a very low population, too low to have consumer bodies large enough to support themselves..... Game over economy... hello slavers when our ships start to fall apart.
4. no more council seat, but hey they always look after minority races... Quarian told me so. (oh, how many war ships will be left after the war with the Reaper?).

Terra Nova has a population of 4+ million, well in excess of what is needed to sustain genetic viability.

Glad to hear, only healthy slaves for the Batarians then.

[LordJeyl]

Last Vizard wrote.. Glad to hear, only healthy slaves for the Batarians then.

What is it with all this talk about Batarian slavers? I don't see them enslaving the 20 million Quarians who lost their planet, or the easily influenced but very plague controlled Krogen. 

You do realize that despite the fact that if Earth was to be destroyed, the Alliance Fleet would still exist. You think that every Alliance Ship in the galaxy is just going to go back to Earth and park on the ground just before the Reapers will attack?I think not. And once again, humanity has allies!

[008Zulu]

Il Divo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I find it odd that as emotionally invested in the story as OP claims to be, he or she apparently hasn't spent much time reading the codex at all. If they had, they would know why losing Earth would be catastrophic to the species (besides the obvious drama of losing our homeworld.)

Just look at the Quarians to illustrate this point, from both an emotional and a practical viewpoint.

The Quarians didnt just loose their homeworld, they were driven off all their worlds. Humanity could lose one and would still be fine.

Losing Earth would mean a dent in the overall population, and morale might need mouth-to-mouth, but after reading the codex entry about earth... it wouldn't be that critical.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Soooo let me get this straight...they use the arrival relay to connect to local cluster (Earth's region) then they bypass Earth and skip ahead to say Illium when humans have kicked their asses every step of the way? That's like Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and kicked off WW2 but we decide to attack France. That's dumb OP Eath's relay was the first stop on the trains voyage so of course they're going to let a few passengers off to attack it and send others out to attack the rest of the galaxy don't worry OP we'll be saving or giving up alien worlds in ME3 just like we'll do with Earth. Those pesky unthriving colonies of ours will be just fine w/o the men, machines, and aid they get from Earth trust me Feros colony is going to boom when Earth is 0 populous.

[Bluko]

I dunno Shepard going out of their way to save solely Earth is well... a bit dumb. But I suppose they have to do something that makes sense from a "Renegade" point of view as well. I mean yeah pretty sure every human wants to save Earth, but I think it's a little more important that we actually defeat the Reapers you know? Even a Pro-Humanity Renegade Shepard should know that. If Earth is the first planet we save, sure fine. We obviously have to start somewhere. But I'd like to think Shepard isn't a 4 year old who can actually see that they may have to let the Earth go if they actually want to save the galaxy and humanity.

Yes Earth is important, but it's not as if without the Earth humanity will up die. I'm pretty sure well over half of humanity lives on other worlds though. 11 Billion humans live on Earth, and by 2185 I'd imagine there's at least 20 Billion humans in existence if not more. It's a heavy price to risk losing that many people, but it's likely a price that will have to be paid. Also "Save Earth First!" is not a very good motto if you want help from any alien species. I mean if Garrus asked you to save Palaven first would you? Why not the Citadel? Why not where there are the most Reapers? Please tell me there is some tactical and logical reasoning behind this. (Although it could be the case the largest concentration is at Earth, which is a fair point.)

I really do hope ME3 consists of more then just rallying a fleet and going back to save Earth. I mean come on these are Reapers. How is a big fleet of random ships going to fare any better against hundreds of "Sovereigns"? I dunno seems a bit tacky and you might as well call Shepard... Captain Planet!

[JedTed]

Just because those were the first words coming out of Shep's mouth that doesn't make him a humanist. Also, look at the galaxy map, the system where the Alpha Relay is located is just one jump away from Earth's home star cluster.

Why not chill out and wait till the game is out before you start nit picking it.

[AlexMBrennan]

Soooo let me get this straight...they use the arrival relay to connect to local cluster (Earth's region) then they bypass Earth [...] when humans have kicked their asses every step of the way?

That's exactly what I'd expect. I'd expect a token force to stay behind to keep Earth's defenders busy whilst the bulk of the fleet seizes the Citadel; I think the Citadel's importance is alluded to in ME1.

Edit: On the other hand, based on Harbinger's ramblings one might have thought that the Reapers are not entirely immune to this.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 12 avril 2011 - 05:58 .

[Last Vizard]

LordJeyl wrote...

Last Vizard wrote.. Glad to hear, only healthy slaves for the Batarians then.

What is it with all this talk about Batarian slavers? I don't see them enslaving the 20 million Quarians who lost their planet, or the easily influenced but very plague controlled Krogen. 

You do realize that despite the fact that if Earth was to be destroyed, the Alliance Fleet would still exist. You think that every Alliance Ship in the galaxy is just going to go back to Earth and park on the ground just before the Reapers will attack?I think not. And once again, humanity has allies!

The Quarians are all on a large fleet constantly moving around the galaxy, more difficult to track down than just some worlds that need to wait for fleet which are spread thin defending all minning and colony worlds.

where is the money going to come from that maintains the Alliance fleet? i'm thinking long term here.... so the surving colonies reduce the fleet size (less ships to defend all those small worlds) What allies are going to pay for the burden we would create? its shown how the citadel treats minor (size of empire) races embassies on the citadel.

Turian rebels would jump at the chance to attack the weak colonies that would be poorly defended after the final battle with the Reapers.  The pirate attacked on Mindoir would have succeded if it wasn't for the effort of Shep and his soldiers, but how long until pirates try their hand at the severely weakend Human colonies?

Humanity only has Allies because we are strong enough to defend ourselves, with the loss of Earth watch as they all walk away, cept the Krogans.... i would add Quarians and the idea of some Federation type future but the Quarian side quest on the citadel shows what the general population thinks of Quarians..... however those elitists might change their views after the loss of Earth and our power/local consumer base for the colonies is gone.

Somhow i don't think we (citadel races) will be sitting around a campfire singing songs and holding hands after the Reapers attack, or at least after 150-200 years when the Reaper invasion is gone from living memory and each race starts becoming independant humanity will be at a great disadvantage when the natural order of things is restored. (Humanity in ME universe is already at a disadvantage due to how late in the game we came into the picture and the low galactic population-- consumer base and pool to recruit defense force personnel from)

Hope this at the very least allows you to look at the bigger picture.
Edit: bigger picture for Humans that is^

Modifié par Last Vizard, 13 avril 2011 - 04:34 .

[Last Vizard]

Bluko wrote...

I dunno Shepard going out of their way to save solely Earth is well... a bit dumb. But I suppose they have to do something that makes sense from a "Renegade" point of view as well. I mean yeah pretty sure every human wants to save Earth, but I think it's a little more important that we actually defeat the Reapers you know? Even a Pro-Humanity Renegade Shepard should know that. If Earth is the first planet we save, sure fine. We obviously have to start somewhere. But I'd like to think Shepard isn't a 4 year old who can actually see that they may have to let the Earth go if they actually want to save the galaxy and humanity.

Yes Earth is important, but it's not as if without the Earth humanity will up die. I'm pretty sure well over half of humanity lives on other worlds though. 11 Billion humans live on Earth, and by 2185 I'd imagine there's at least 20 Billion humans in existence if not more. It's a heavy price to risk losing that many people, but it's likely a price that will have to be paid. Also "Save Earth First!" is not a very good motto if you want help from any alien species. I mean if Garrus asked you to save Palaven first would you? Why not the Citadel? Why not where there are the most Reapers? Please tell me there is some tactical and logical reasoning behind this. (Although it could be the case the largest concentration is at Earth, which is a fair point.)

I really do hope ME3 consists of more then just rallying a fleet and going back to save Earth. I mean come on these are Reapers. How is a big fleet of random ships going to fare any better against hundreds of "Sovereigns"? I dunno seems a bit tacky and you might as well call Shepard... Captain Planet!

Majority population is on Earth, Nazzara wasn't as strong as he really should've been, unless they retcon the story (they've started) then Thanix cannon + possible tech from Collector base, i kept the base but it'll just be one of those illusions of choice again (killing the council) and nothing different will really happen and some story that might be retconed or the Volus finds the weapons on that random world i can't remember the name of will stop the Reapers.

If Reapers attack Earth first then there is nothing you can do to save it so hopefully that happens halfway through.  Without Earth we either die out hundreds of years later in some galactic war or we lose all independance from alien masters, no council seat for remnants - ask Quarians.

Overall the thing that annoys me most is that there is no unconventional weapons or tactics being used, why not mass accelerate our asteroid belf at the Reapers when they come through the mass relay (imagine the suprise)... Hell i would've been thinking of endless ways to destroy fleets of ships since the first contact war.

Why at the very least aren't there any gun platforms defending Earths mass relay either?

[KingNothing125]

The events of ME2 should make it abundantly clear that of all the current space-faring species, Reapers are most concerned with humanity. It makes perfect sense for Shepard to assume (rightly, given the ME3 reveal trailer) that Reapers will be attacking Earth first and foremost.

[armass]

The reapers are attacking around the galaxy. Theres proof of this, like the batarian and rachni husks, also apparently turian. Also they are the main enemy in the game, so what else are you gonna fight if they are not around the galaxy? Mercs? Also the reaper mentioned on a planet(that's hinted to be tuchanka) that gets into fight with a giant tresher maw.

[inversevideo]

Well, regarless of when you play the DLC, Shep has reason to be worried specifically about Earth.
Shep is on a mission, to stop the Collectors, who work for the Reapers, from abducting any more humans. According to what you learn, early on, '10s of thousands' of humans have been abducted.
If you play Arrival, after Horizon, Shep's fear should logically be, 'we are too late! The Reapers are are going to invade Earth'. This is a logical supposition, that Earth will be the first target, given the large scale abduction of humans, as opposed to any other race. If you play the DLC after the suicide run, you know why the Collectors were abducting humans, You've also been to the Collector ship, and seen the ship 'hold' , so you know what the Reapers are planning. There is little doubt that Earth will likely be their first target.

Shep is not being 'Earth centric', she just knows that her homeworld has a very large 'bullseye' painted on it.

Modifié par inversevideo, 13 avril 2011 - 08:34 .

[Avissel]

Really?....REALLY?!

You are surprised that a HUMAN who is currently engaged in a fight with the Reapers and possess the knowledge that they are specifically interested in HUMANS, would ask about Earth? The single largest human population center in the universe?

Seriously?

[Jonathan Shepard]

CastonFolarus wrote...

Where else would they set a game like this? Just having a big space battle is out, since that would involve zero gameplay. If the Reapers were invading the Citadel again, it would be like Return of the Jedi with the second Death Star. Deja vu, unoriginal. Same with a hidden Reaper base somehwere in(or out)side the galaxy, since ME2 did that with the Collector Base.

And the other planets in the galaxy? Well, they're probably under attack too, but the Reapers are focused on humanity, so it makes snse that they would focus primarily on Earth. I mean, from their POV, a human managed to beat them. They want to get rid of the biggest threat as quickly as possible.

But the bottom line is that even if the Reapers set another species' homeworld as their primary target, it would not have the emotional signifigance of Earth. As humans, Earth is closer to our hearts than Palavern, or Thessia, or any other homeworld in the galaxy. Focusing on any of those more than Earth would make the game less emotionally engaging. And that is what Bioware sells their games on, and its what makes them so good.

PS: Guys, stop bashing. This was a ligitimate complaint by a person that loves Mass Effect. If you can't counter his argument without name-calling, don't post.

 While the Earth thing bothered me at first, this is why it no longer dioes so.

[TheLostGenius]

Face the facts: The Reapers attack earth because they see Human's as being their biggest threat. Commander Sheperd and crew are probably the only "sapient" organic species to ever KILL a Reaper, so Human's will be the Reapers first target. Writings on the walls.