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What BW did right and wrong with DAO


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#1
SphereofSilence

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Here are my reflections on Dragon Age having completed my first playthrough. You might notice that the writing were copied from several reviews of the game, that's because I went through all of them and stole parts where I felt strongly in my experience. Be warned, it's a bit wordy.

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What Bioware did right?

-       Intricate, involving story, while may not be completely original, it's told in a way that enthralls and enchants the player. This is a rich and engaging story that is rife with emotions, taking players from the depths of betrayal and greed to the heights of personal sacrifice that stretches beyond an individual and to the world.

-       You’ll discover a polished, thoughtful and flexible party-based RPG that will undoubtedly please fans of the style. That's thanks to its remarkable flexibility.

-       Although the mage, warrior and rogue archetypes are basic - and though warriors and rogues share a lot of common ground in weapons skills - there are multiple tiers of customization in each. The powerful and flavorsome specializations are nicely embedded in the game's storyline

-       Talent trees and common passive skills give plenty of scope for crafting an individual character. Levelling is well-paced.

-       The biggest thrills in Dragon Age are found in combat. This is no breezy hack ‘n slash affair; the best encounters feel like puzzles, forcing you to use your resources wisely and make calculated decisions on the path to victory. Which enemy poses the largest threat? How do you stem the tide of oncoming skeletons? Can your tank stand in the middle of your mage’s electrical storm long enough to take down the ogre? Your answers to these questions change depending on your party members and their skills, leaving some space for experimentation. Almost every fight can kill you if you aren’t focused, but the satisfaction of standing in the midst of your slaughtered foes after a well-fought battle makes it all worthwhile. Combat brings the best out of itself with some challenging and well-designed encounters with bosses or large groups of tough enemies.

-       Combat animations in particular are impressive, as your characters will set themselves before enemies and go through complex motions, with rogues jockeying for position to backstab and warriors forcefully slamming their shields into faces. Colorful kill animations result in dismemberments and decapitations, rewarding you for critical strikes in a far more memorable manner than just a bigger damage number.

-       The tempo is even quicker than the Dungeons & Dragons games that preceded Dragon Age, thanks to important tweaks that minimize downtime. For example, you do not need to rest between encounters to replenish your health and recharge your spells. Instead, health and stamina are replenished quickly once the skirmish ends, allowing you to string encounters together without unwanted breaks in between. Should a party member fall during battle, he or she will be resuscitated once the battle has ended. These factors, and more, give Dragon Age an excellent sense of forward direction.

-       Camera that can be zoomed in or out on the PC – one of the best additions for a traditional RPG. Personally I use both, zooming out for tactical analysis and commands, and zooming in to enjoy the thrill for brutal combat actions.

-       In addition to capturing the joy of battle, Dragon Age also provides an engrossing backdrop for the action. Even more than Mass Effect, the nation of Ferelden feels like a fully realized setting with its own history, conflicts, and power groups. This is one of the main reasons the game is so addicting; completing quests isn’t just about grinding experience and amassing loot – it actually feels like you have an impact on the world. On significant quests, you'll encounter complex choices that force you to weigh the risks against the rewards, even as you try to stay true to your own vision of your character. BioWare's trademark, sometimes heart-wrenchingly difficult morality choices play as much of a role in Dragon Age as they do in past games. Your decisions influence events in Ferelden -- and how your fellow adventures view you.

-       There are fascinating alternate routes through Dragon Age to be discovered. Getting a sense of them halfway through your run through the game, you conceive a desire to play it again to explore its possibilities with more freedom and foreknowledge - and it's true that despite running 50 to 100 hours in length, this game has tremendous replay value, and not considering the six origin stories.

-       Great dialogue and fantastic voice acting make characters leap off the screen as if they were real friends, and the way they interact with one another feels authentic. Perhaps it's just the sheer amount of time you spend paying active attention to these virtual people that allows them to work they way into your affections. Each companion has an approval rating for the player character, and manipulating these through conversations, decisions and gift-giving - eventually unlocking personal quests, romance and even sex, portrayed with all the sensuous passion of the database spreadsheet that underlies it all - is an engrossing game in itself. Although it can be clumsy and mechanical in the details, overall, evolving your relationship with the companions has a volatile unpredictability that makes for quite a credible simulation of human interaction. It's the most convincingly organic part of the game's story.

-       The environments, the texturing of the armor and effects are amazing. This game is vibrant with detail.

-       The background conversations can be revealing – when eavesdropping on gossipers – or clever and funny.

-       The musical score is first rate.  

-       One of the best characters I’ve come across – Loghain. This was especially so for me since I read both the books.
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What Bioware did wrong?
-       Some of the character models look a few years old.

-       The silent protagonist, aka you, a poor substitute for Commander Shepard's fully voice-acted third-person personality. Admittedly it would be expensive and difficult to complete six sets of voice-overs ( two different gender across three different races).

-       Mostly lifeless animations, especially sequences of dialogues where you and characters just stood there without any cinematic touches and animations, the few notable exceptions are such as the talk with Duncan as you arrive in Ostagar and the beginning section of the Landsmeet at Denerim.

-       The beginning parts of the story, the events at Ostagar, Korcari Wilds, Lothering till you first step foot on Redcliffe, were truly compelling, a cinematic achievement that raised expectations for greater things to come from the rest of plot. Sadly, from then on, it went down to a lower plateau that continues until the Landsmeet, where it began to pick up speed, but not quite reaching the lofty heights at the start, culminating in an uninspired ending.
   
-       The central narrative arc and the characters involved serve the setting well, but don’t deviate far from expectations.

Dragon Age is sorely lacking in the things that make a truly great role-playing game: vision, inspiration, soul. Somewhere in its journey back to its roots, BioWare has got lost in the dense tangle of what it was trying to accomplish. It hasn't been able to see the wood for the trees. It has summoned an entire world into existence in the most meticulous detail, but failed to give it an identity beyond the blandest cliché. It has created living characters that respond like humans, but oftentimes speak like dictionaries and move like mannequins. It has engineered solidly absorbing RPG gameplay and character progression and stranded them in a succession of hackneyed and hide-bound scenarios. Although the systems which make up Dragon Age's world are all interesting and well-realized - the companion interaction, the plotting, the character progression, the combat - the world itself is neither.

Side quests are perfunctory and unappealing filler, usually boiling down to a treasure hunt or a long explanation for a short scrap. Dungeons are designed with great care but mostly without imagination, only occasionally leavening the maze-like, monster-infested ruined temples with the odd puzzle or dimensional warp. There is a sense that the many dungeons have been designed not by human beings with imaginations, but by complex computer programs with elaborate subroutines. The game's locations, while impressively detailed, are dull and devoid of atmosphere, surrounded by invisible walls and fractured by loading times. There's no sense of a contiguous, believable world out there, which is one thing in a linear action game - quite another in a sprawling, supposedly franchise-founding RPG. Things are better when BioWare settles into the intentionally dry Machiavellian world of the human capital Denerim (especially in the game's conniving climax) or the Circle of Magi. But when it's at its highest fantasy - especially in the dismally conventional woodland world of the Dalish Elves - Dragon Age is lowest on charm. The artwork across the board is polished and attractive but generic.

There aren't many working in high fantasy who can lay claim to total originality. Nor is there anything inherently dull and derivative about elves, dragons and dwarves. But there's something missing from Dragon Age. There's no alternative to the eeriness of Elder Scrolls, the colourful exuberance of Warcraft, the gritty savagery of Warhammer, the classical lyricism of Tolkien. In its desperation to infuse this setting with "maturity" - be it of the sober, political kind, or the game's painfully clumsy gore and sex - BioWare has forgotten the key ingredient of any fantasy: the fantastical. Without it, you're still left with a competent, often compelling, impressively detailed and immense RPG, but it's one that casts no spell.

Modifié par SphereofSilence, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:03 .


#2
Sloth Of Doom

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Wall of text much? Some spaces between you paragraphs would make that a lot more readable.



I'm not usually one to go around screaming "tl;dr" but....my god.

#3
Beowulf1990

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My face physically hurts after slamming into that wall....

#4
Zeluna

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I completely disagree with your final dislike point. I think you are thinking way too much and way too broad and you want to have every single damn game in existence to be in one game. That is not possible and if it was would cost over $250 dollars. I think Bioware did a great job on everything except the Warden's Keep DLC which was too short for my $7 period. The scope and breadth of the game as a whole is immense.

#5
SphereofSilence

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I think the scope of the game is huge, Yelina, and I think it's a very, very good game. It's just that there's something missing, as pointed out in the last paragraph. There's a lack of identity, of originality, that is needed to separate Dragon Age from other fantasy settings out there.

#6
Wolff Laarcen

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Sloth Of Doom wrote...
I'm not usually one to go around screaming "tl;dr" but....my god.

Allow me.

tl;dr.

#7
Nosuchluck

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Why does it really need to be seperated from other fantasy settings though? I agree originality is always a good thing but it's not a neccesary one. I personally think it was at times missing a spark of something, but that's not because it wasn't original.



I felt at times it was going through the motions without really putting a huge amount of effort in to what was happening. The ending especially felt rushed but still, it was an excellent game.

#8
Malkavianqueen

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I liked the silent PC character. That meant more options. T__T While I liked the voiced PC of Mass Effect, it obviously limited the character responses. Which just made it seem like an interactive movie, and I wasn't able to put myself in character as well.

#9
Kyjala

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"Dragon Age is sorely lacking in the things that make a truly great role-playing game:"



DA is the best RPG game I have ever played. By boat loads.



I don't want to be forced to play Commander Shepherd, or any single character (nothing against it, just not my cup of tea).

#10
Sloth Of Doom

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Thanks for the spacing. Now that my eyes aren't bleeding I can actually say i agree with almost everything you said there. In fact, any place where I disagree it is more on the lines of being 'I agee but with a slight variation so I'm not going to post it'

Excpet for the fact that I don;t think the sory is lacking at all.

Modifié par Sloth Of Doom, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:21 .


#11
Avispex

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As to your post, I think it is always good to see gamers willing to take the time and effort to present thoughtful feedback to the developers. It was great that you balanced the things you like with the things you disliked.

Modifié par Avispex, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:23 .


#12
Kalcalan

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Regarding having the protagonist's lines read out loud I think it would
have been awkward because of the sheer amount of lines to go through.
What is the point in having to hear all the lines when you've already
read them? It worked that way in The Witcher and it was really boring
after a while. Still in The Witcher you had only one protagonist so in
Dragon Age you'd have at the very least 6 different versions (not
counting voicesets or origins, only gender and race). That's a lot.

Considering
your point about the graphics and models that look a bit old you have
to bear in mind that the game has been in production for a long time. I
think that the overall graphic quality is very good but I put
storytelling before graphics and some of my favourite games are old or
lacking in the graphic department. I love the UI in Dragon Age and the
overall look of the game.

SphereofSilence wrote...

Dragon Age is sorely lacking in the things that make a truly great role-playing game: vision, inspiration, soul.


That's a very personal comment, I'm not judging you and please understand that I don't mean to be offensive but if you didn't feel that way when playing Dragon Age then you must be rather jaded.

Jaded may be a strong word but that's the only one that comes to mind after reading your post, let me assure you once afain that I don't mean to be rude to you by using that word in such a context.

#13
Chromie

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Why is it that everyone who mentions that protaganist always complains about him/her not speaking?
Yes Mass Effect is great and was nice to hear our Shepard actually speak but Bioware, and by now I thought this would be common sense, said if they have made our character talk then it would limit our dialogue choices. In Mass Effect there was alot less talking for a reason.

#14
Greye

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SphereofSilence wrote...

Here are my reflections on Dragon Age having completed my first playthrough.


I agree with the blandness and genericness despite the enormous detail, and your specific mention of the Dalish forest.  The dungeons/alternate realities are still good, better and more diverse than Oblivion's efforts.

Part of this may be because I rarely read the codex entries anymore, since I open the codex and I'm faced with having to guess and search the whole thing to find the one new entry that went into it.

Show me the game world by interacting with it and talking to the NPC's,
not telling it to me via the codex.  Not possible; it would be too
expensive.  100% voiceover will never win.  The movie will never be as good as the book.

Replayability also lacks a little, to me, or at least I'm struggling, because of the few class and race choices.  In BG2 you had tons of classes and multi-classes to try, and like a hundred spells over cleric, druid, mage, plus specializations on top of that.  Starting a healer in DA would just be playing Wynne again.

Still a great game among the new world of 100% voiced and console-friendly RPG's.  Looking forward to SW:ToR on the PC.

#15
SphereofSilence

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Kalcalan wrote...

SphereofSilence wrote...

Dragon Age is sorely lacking in the things that make a truly great role-playing game: vision, inspiration, soul.


That's a very personal comment, I'm not judging you and please understand that I don't mean to be offensive but if you didn't feel that way when playing Dragon Age then you must be rather jaded.

Jaded may be a strong word but that's the only one that comes to mind after reading your post, let me assure you once afain that I don't mean to be rude to you by using that word in such a context.


None taken Image IPB. Still, jaded is the right word, hehe. Anyway, I did enjoyed the game immensely though, and would give it a 9 out of 10.

#16
spernus

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Am I reading part of the review from eurogamer?
The same site which give great reviews to any and all Bethesda game? :P
I do not want to undermine the credibility of Eurogamer,but there's just something that I find fishy:

The witcher:enhanced edition 8/10

Dragon Age:Origins 8/10

Mass effect 8/10

Fable 2 10 /10

Fallout 3 10/10

Oblivion 10/10

Isn't there a lack of consistency somewhere down the line? Now,I agree with several point concerning Dragon age,but it also leave me scratching my head as to how Fable 2 could get a 10/10 given the huge flaws(or how about talking of the severe blandness affecting Fallout 3 or Oblivion?).

Modifié par spernus, 18 novembre 2009 - 07:21 .


#17
Terwox_

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I don't put much stock in Eurogamers. Mostly due to their articles not being very "professional" for lack off a better word.



Lets take the DA review. They practically butchered the game throughout the entire article and yet found a way to give it an 8. They way they were criticizing everything in the game I expected a 5 from them at best. Gave me a feeling off that the guy who wrote the article wasn't the same guy who wrote the score.

#18
Loc'n'lol

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Yes the last 3 parts are from the eurogamer review. OP never pretended it was his own writing, though.

#19
BluesMan1956

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Oy vey!

#20
spernus

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Yeah,I'm all for constructive criticisism and it's true that Dragon Age is bland in a couple of area.

However,the same should be applied to Oblivion and thus a perfect 10/10 start to sound fishy.If Dragon Age deserve to be knocked for the monster design or the lack of originality,why the praise for Oblivion? It's Eurogamer which praised the fast travel or the arrow which point exactly where you need to go in order to continue a quest also. :lol:

It start to make you wonder as to why Eurogamer would give very high score to Fable 2 or even Crackdown which I loved.It wouldn't be because these game were developed in the UK right? It wouln't be as silly as being a typical case of homerism? :?

#21
BGNation27

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 I actually liked the forest with the Dalish Elves a lot.  I thought it was very mystical and magical.  There were lots of interesting things like the camp that temps you to sleep, the old tree that asks you to find his acorn, the old crazy man who ask's a question for a question, the different powerful magical undead that pop out of the graves, the encounter with the trapped soul that teaches you arcane warrior, and the moral dilemma with the werewolves.  

The game may not be perfect, but it's the best single player high fantasy RPG that I've played in a very long time.

#22
Dussan2

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DA is best RPG I have ever played. Including Baldur's Gate 2. The origin stories were involved and got me really excited about my character. Mass Effect male Shepard voice annoyed the hell out of me especially when I made him look like Samuel L. Jackson!

#23
bleeding hearts

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Greye wrote...

Part of this may be because I rarely read the codex entries anymore, since I open the codex and I'm faced with having to guess and search the whole thing to find the one new entry that went into it.


New/updated codex entries should be outlined in bright yellow when you open the codex--the general header as well as the little numbered boxes.

Greye wrote...

Replayability also lacks a little, to me, or at least I'm struggling, because of the few class and race choices.  In BG2 you had tons of classes and multi-classes to try, and like a hundred spells over cleric, druid, mage, plus specializations on top of that.  Starting a healer in DA would just be playing Wynne again.


Not necessarily in personality, though. I think part of the fun of playing the same base character (i.e., human mage), is that I can give her a variety of personalities, influence my companions one way or another, etc. etc. etc. Also, you could be Wynne with much better constitution. Also, specializations for variety. And not the exact same spellset.

With regards to the OP, I don't really know where the lack of inspiration and visualization comes in. I think the character has to make some really difficult choices depending on how you want to play the game, and I was completely blown away by the fact that Bioware thought to include them, and with the options that they did. I don't think it was hackneyed or trite at all. To me, that is imagination and inspiration at their finest. I was completely caught up in the world they created. The endings on the games always feel rushed to me, with the sole exception of BG2. You spend so long struggling to get to one point, and then it all comes together, and before you know it, you're in the final battle, and it's sort of like a wha? moment. It didn't feel overly rushed though, to me. It was a natural acceleration towards the end.

I loved that every cave/dungeon/etc didn't look exactly the same as was the case with Oblivion. If you want to go for lack of originality, look there. I love that game, but after 2 days of playing that, and 2 days of playing DA:O, come back and THEN talk about blandness and lack of originality. And I really don't understand why you're looking for Tolkein in a PC/console game. That seems a bit much. If you want the best of every game you've played plus literary excellence, aren't you setting yourself up for disappointment with ridiculously high expectations every time?

As far as visuals go, yes, Oblivion is exemplary, but given the fact that I can remember back to 5 years ago when they announced that DA:O was in concept, I can forgive the occasional awkward animation and clumsiness. It just means that I know it will improve for sequels. Particularly because I think as far as faces go, I'm quite pleased with the occasional eyecandy in my closeups. Also, characterization, romance options, and not a generic backstory for my character. And companions. Especially companions.

There's a lot more I want to say in response, but this is getting seriously tl;dr. Honestly, I don't know what's not to love here. I haven't a loved a game this much since the BGs. <3

#24
Greye

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bleeding hearts wrote...

New/updated codex entries should be outlined in bright yellow when you open the codex--the general header as well as the little numbered boxes.


Thanks.  Yes, early on, I kept opening the codex to find things I thought I'd read, even entire sections, were re-highlighted again.  I assumed it was bugged.  I'm guessing on the PC you can mousewheel and just click these to open them.  On the PS3 I'm sure it's significantly more tedious to open and navigate all of the menus and their tabs, especially the codex.  I'm not complaining, DA is a great game, just telling it like it is.  New to console--this is the first game in years my PC could not run (due to CPU combined with Vista).

Same problem with receiving an item as with a codex entry, at least on PS3. "Items received."  I have to hunt through my entire pack to try to figure out what it was.  I look in weapons and armor, then give up.  If I don't even find anything, I'll hope to locate it when I'm at a vendor.  Or is there a solution to this?  A record, like a classic PC game chat window?  I don't find a standard game event log that includes items received, game saved, etc.  Some things I'm given I 'm not sure what they are or how much.  (Major Cunning, etc.)  No combat log either.

#25
SphereofSilence

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bleeding hearts wrote...

With regards to the OP, I don't really know where the lack of inspiration and visualization comes in. I think the character has to make some really difficult choices depending on how you want to play the game, and I was completely blown away by the fact that Bioware thought to include them, and with the options that they did. I don't think it was hackneyed or trite at all. To me, that is imagination and inspiration at their finest. I was completely caught up in the world they created. The endings on the games always feel rushed to me, with the sole exception of BG2. You spend so long struggling to get to one point, and then it all comes together, and before you know it, you're in the final battle, and it's sort of like a wha? moment. It didn't feel overly rushed though, to me. It was a natural acceleration towards the end.

I loved that every cave/dungeon/etc didn't look exactly the same as was the case with Oblivion. If you want to go for lack of originality, look there. I love that game, but after 2 days of playing that, and 2 days of playing DA:O, come back and THEN talk about blandness and lack of originality. And I really don't understand why you're looking for Tolkein in a PC/console game. That seems a bit much. If you want the best of every game you've played plus literary excellence, aren't you setting yourself up for disappointment with ridiculously high expectations every time?

As far as visuals go, yes, Oblivion is exemplary, but given the fact that I can remember back to 5 years ago when they announced that DA:O was in concept, I can forgive the occasional awkward animation and clumsiness. It just means that I know it will improve for sequels. Particularly because I think as far as faces go, I'm quite pleased with the occasional eyecandy in my closeups. Also, characterization, romance options, and not a generic backstory for my character. And companions. Especially companions.

There's a lot more I want to say in response, but this is getting seriously tl;dr. Honestly, I don't know what's not to love here. I haven't a loved a game this much since the BGs. <3


Don't get me wrong, I love the game immensely too. It's a credit to DAO that no games except maybe BG2 came anywhere near it in quality, breath and depth to deliver such complete and entralling experience.

It's the case of me trying to give feedback to the devs to improve on the next iteration, being someone who adore DAO and would love to see greater heights by them. Bioware's founders talked about the four pillars about making a great RPG - story and characters, world setting, character progression and customization, combat. All these parts were great except the world, which was good but lack that extra spark because of falling within all too familiar tropes.

Perhaps, because Ferelden was but one part of Thedas, and DAO was also meant to prepare us for more to come. I just hope these other lands will live up to the potential as glimpsed through the many codex entries.