124 réponses à ce sujet

[PsychoBlonde]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

savagesparrow wrote...

I don't think they retconn'd it--When I went to challenge the Arishok to a duel he was all like, "I can't fight you, you're a woman!" but then Fenris said that he had declared me 'bas-alite-aan" (or however that's spelled), which made me "no longer a woman", and therefore ok to fight. Though he didn't make this protest when I challenged him to a duel for Isabela in a later playthrough, but whatevs...

Except Sten harps on femWarden about how "you can't change what you are."  Not that I'm complaining about the difference.  The only part of qunari culture I pay attention to is how they cry when they're bleeding.  It's a pretty funny sound, like a sheep with laryngitis giving birth.

YOU can't.
The Qun can.

This is why I consider the Qun the most dishonest society in existence, every single thing they say can be wriggled out of with a technicality or a lie of omission.

that seems to be BioWare's stance on Dragon Age's lore too. Correlation, perhaps?

I don't think so--I think they just treat individuals AS individuals.  I don't see anyone complaining that Origins was inconsistent because they played up how templars are so down on mages and then Greagoir was quite nice to you and happy to take Irving's word that the tower was cleared.

Consistent writing does not mean that everyone in the entire world (or even everyone with the same belief system) displays a given attitude.  Everyone has their own interpretations on things, their own priorities.  The Arishok, for instance, struck me as being rather more cosmopolitan than Sten as well as less interested in "fixing" you, in particular.  Keep in mind also that with the Arishok, your interaction was impersonal and at much longer intervals--also that you were just one example of the (probably) numerous crazy/perverted bas he had to deal with during his stay in Kirkwall.  The Warden's relationship with Sten was a lot more personal and hence also a lot more awkward--not only was he living with you day in and day out, you were his BOSS.  A situation like that is going to provoke a lot more strenous of a "this ain't right" reaction.  Not to mention that Sten was nowhere near as good at keeping his emotions under wraps as the Arishok was (apart from that one angry outburst), possibly because Sten was already an emotional wreck and waiting to die by the time you even met him.

Dwarven culture is anything but consistent in regards to ANYTHING, because it's all about face and status and power games.  It's very like feudal Japanese culture in that regard.  Firmly-held convictions about ANYTHING are a huge liability in that setup, because people can use it against you.  Some individuals are probably perfectly happy to be sexist . . . as long as they think they can get away with it.  When it's advantageous for them NOT to be, they probably hoist false colors and are like, yay, females!

Bad writing is when you act like everyone is going to have the same opinions at all times.  Even in the most brutally oppressive patriarchies that have ever existed, there have been people who didn't share the supposed
"typical" opinions of the masses.

[AlexXIV]

Torax wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Was the Qun retconed regarding women?

No.

This will teach people not to ask yes or no questions about the Qun.

Yes

No.

[The Angry One]

22nd MadJack wrote...

... Doesn't fit?  You are quick to come up with examples of sexism in Origins yet you say it doesn't fit in the world?  I will not believe that the design team took the decision to remove sexism because whoever originally designed the world gave specific details of Kirkwall's pristine gender equality.  Far more believable is that, as I said, the design team felt that varying encounters by gender was not 'streamlined' enough, and/or they didn't want to shock us kids.

It doesn't fit, because sexism in Dragon Age is unusual, not the norm.
There's no reason to specifically say "Kirkwall isn't sexist" because the world overall leans towards gender equality.

If DA3 has dialog options similar to my original post, then you will be right and I will gladly eat my hat.  But if DA2 is any indication of the sterlised/streamlined direction they are taking the series, then you will not see their like again.

Again, you're assuming the need for a conflict that largely isn't there outside of backwater villages.

If we ever return to redcliffe I wouldn't be surprised if half the milita has sprouted breasts and nobody seems to notice a difference.

Given that a lot of the militia died and Redcliffe recieves refugees from elsewhere and Eamon won't be ruling for much longer given his age, that wouldn't be impossible.
But where I see logical progression you see "streamlining".

[Aldandil]

AlexXIV wrote...

Torax wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Was the Qun retconed regarding women?

No.

This will teach people not to ask yes or no questions about the Qun.

Yes

No.

Doesn't work as well with statements, but the last speaker is probably right.

[The Angry One]

Aldandil wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Torax wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Was the Qun retconed regarding women?

No.

This will teach people not to ask yes or no questions about the Qun.

Yes

No.

Doesn't work as well with statements, but the last speaker is probably right.

No.

[KJandrew]

The Angry One wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Torax wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Was the Qun retconed regarding women?

No.

This will teach people not to ask yes or no questions about the Qun.

Yes

No.

Doesn't work as well with statements, but the last speaker is probably right.

No.

Yes

[nightscrawl]

22nd MadJack wrote...

The Eowyn archetype is one of my preferred characters to play. To be an exception, to rise against repression. It is a wonderful well from which to draw stories. In Dragon Age 2, that well is dry.

Unless a game is specifically designed around a female character, you most likely won't see major characterizations like the Eowyn archetype in an RPG where you can play as either gender. Indeed, other than various pronouns, some adjectives, and the small bit with the Arishok duel via Fenris dialogue, there is really nothing to indicate your gender in DA2.

In Origins, there is a sprinkling of dialogue here and there regarding gender, specifically gender roles. As mentioned above, there is the dwarf noble origin in the Proving; when you meet Howe along with Loghain in Denerim as a female human noble, Howe makes some sexist remark about you playing soldier (or something along those lines); and there is some talk regarding female Grey Wardens. I can't recall anything else at the moment.

I think I prefer the Origins method now that I'm writing all this out. In the above example with Arl Howe, I remember being aghast when I heard him say it, and it pissed me off that he did say it, in front of all of those people. I imagine that was the desired effect. Statements like that can be useful in showing the personality/prejudices/etc of a given character in a story. That's how we learn about people in real life too, through what they say and do. Arl Howe was an a--hole who murdered my family and I was SO happy to kill him, and him being a pig just added to it. There, perfect elicited emotional response. It's what the devs want. But it's not a bad thing.



Now that my on topic post is out of the way...

The Angry One wrote...

The Qun > Eamon.

God I hate Eamon.

Now that my customary Eamon hate whenever someone mentions Redcliffe out of the way...

Why do you hate Eamon??! Is it only because he wants to put Alistair on the throne when he doesn't want to be king? o.O That's really the only "bad" thing I can think of XD.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 10 avril 2011 - 06:43 .

[CloudOfShadows]

... maybe the Arishok is simply a Qunari with more capabilites of understanding different societies? So he perhaps understands that leading pointless arguments is pointless?

And that other thing... well... maybe the Qun would demand of Hawke only their death?

[22nd MadJack]

 

The Angry One wrote...It doesn't fit, because sexism in Dragon Age is unusual, not the norm.
There's no reason to specifically say "Kirkwall isn't sexist" because the world overall leans towards gender equality.

You speak of thedas,  I speak of a game called Dragon Age: Origins, and in that game there was sexism.  A whole lot of it, more than I have ever seen in any other game.  So yes, sexism in Dragon Age is unusual because sexism rarely exists elsewhere in the RPG domain.  In DA2 sexism was virtually non existent.  You can try and construct some strained canon reasoning to explain it if you wish, I did, Varric's embellishments.

[The Angry One]

22nd MadJack wrote...

 

The Angry One wrote...It doesn't fit, because sexism in Dragon Age is unusual, not the norm.
There's no reason to specifically say "Kirkwall isn't sexist" because the world overall leans towards gender equality.

You speak of thedas,  I speak of a game called Dragon Age: Origins, and in that game there was sexism.  A whole lot of it, more than I have ever seen in any other game.  So yes, sexism in Dragon Age is unusual because sexism rarely exists elsewhere in the RPG domain.  In DA2 sexism was virtually non existent.  You can try and construct some strained canon reasoning to explain it if you wish, I did, Varric's embellishments.

I'm speaking of the GAME WORLD, and in the GAME WORLD AS WRITTEN sexism is not terribly prevalent.
I don't care what other RPGs do, we're not talking about other RPGs.

[The Angry One]

Why do I hate Eamon? He's a sexist hobo. :3

[Herr Uhl]

The Angry One wrote...

Why do I hate Eamon? He's a sexist hobo. :3

When?

[Torax]

Herr Uhl wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Why do I hate Eamon? He's a sexist hobo. :3

When?

The beard I bet. It wasn't epic enough. I got the same feeling from Irvings.

[TobiTobsen]

Torax wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Why do I hate Eamon? He's a sexist hobo. :3

When?

The beard I bet. It wasn't epic enough. I got the same feeling from Irvings.

I second that. I already told her that it was Teagan with the whole "woman to the church!" stuff, but she won't listen. I'm pretty sure the beard traumatized her.

[Maria Caliban]

The Angry One wrote...

Why do I hate Eamon? He's a sexist hobo. :3

???

[The Angry One]

Redcliffe's regime is sexist, Eamon is the head of the regime, hence Eamon is sexist.

And before anyone tells me Eamon says nothing sexist, the head of the unquestioningly disgusting Ceasar's Legion in Fallout: New Vegas, who heads a faction that treats women as property says nothing sexist either.

Modifié par The Angry One, 10 avril 2011 - 07:22 .

[The Angry One]

TobiTobsen wrote...

I second that. I already told her that it was Teagan with the whole "woman to the church!" stuff, but she won't listen. I'm pretty sure the beard traumatized her.

I'm blinded by Teagan's cuteness.

[barryl89]

The Angry One wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

I second that. I already told her that it was Teagan with the whole "woman to the church!" stuff, but she won't listen. I'm pretty sure the beard traumatized her.

I'm blinded by Teagan's cuteness.

Therefore you are sexist. Thinking of a man as an object... for shame.

[The Angry One]

barryl89 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

I second that. I already told her that it was Teagan with the whole "woman to the church!" stuff, but she won't listen. I'm pretty sure the beard traumatized her.

I'm blinded by Teagan's cuteness.

Therefore you are sexist. Thinking of a man as an object... for shame.

No, I objectify both genders, I'm an equal opportunity lech.

[TobiTobsen]

The Angry One wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

I second that. I already told her that it was Teagan with the whole "woman to the church!" stuff, but she won't listen. I'm pretty sure the beard traumatized her.

I'm blinded by Teagan's cuteness.

I hereby prescribe you 20 minutes of DA2 Teagan every day. That will cure you off your addiction.

Unless you moded him already. Then my medication won't work.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 10 avril 2011 - 07:41 .

[Torax]

The Angry One wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

I second that. I already told her that it was Teagan with the whole "woman to the church!" stuff, but she won't listen. I'm pretty sure the beard traumatized her.

I'm blinded by Teagan's cuteness.

One of my favorite parts when I played a Female Human Noble was how it sort of startles Teagan when you flirt with him and then he complies for a little before the conversation has to continue lol.

[barryl89]

The Angry One wrote...

barryl89 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

I second that. I already told her that it was Teagan with the whole "woman to the church!" stuff, but she won't listen. I'm pretty sure the beard traumatized her.

I'm blinded by Teagan's cuteness.

Therefore you are sexist. Thinking of a man as an object... for shame.

No, I objectify both genders, I'm an equal opportunity lech.

What about "Teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaagaaaaan" ?