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[Wee Joe Green]

Ok so it seems to be a fairly common perception that the reason for the 'post-campaign' save and cliffhanger etc is that Hawke and companions stories will be continued through DLC.

Now, I even just read an interview with Mike Laidlaw concerning Dragon Age 3, which suggested there were certinaly options for it and a new direction which it could follow but not necessarily that Hawke will be the protagonist or playable main character.  He stated that at this stage, they were focussing on his story continuing through dlc and expansions.  From his choice of words I believe it could very likely be a repeat of the Warden in that the aftermath of his story is wound up in dlc/expansion only.

Whilst this is good as I certainly want to know what's happened to my Hawke, it's a bit of a pity it all has to be through DLC.  DLC is not a compulsory purchase to me and it normally feels like something 'extra' which is optional.  The problem is, the conclusion of this story and the outcomes for these characters shouldn't be 'extra' - it's integral to the game and worthy of a dedicated and proper full game.

An expansion like Awakening is an exception as to some extent this did feel like a new game and not just a 1 hour dlc.  It's a shame to some extent that this is how all games must progress to a conclusion now however.  I used to enjoy getting to find out the end of a game I paid for, in that game.  Stories should be brought to a natural conclusion or left to continue anew in its sequel.

[ziloe]

Wee Joe Green wrote...

Ok so it seems to be a fairly common perception that the reason for the 'post-campaign' save and cliffhanger etc is that Hawke and companions stories will be continued through DLC.

Now, I even just read an interview with Mike Laidlaw concerning Dragon Age 3, which suggested there were certinaly options for it and a new direction which it could follow but not necessarily that Hawke will be the protagonist or playable main character.  He stated that at this stage, they were focussing on his story continuing through dlc and expansions.  From his choice of words I believe it could very likely be a repeat of the Warden in that the aftermath of his story is wound up in dlc/expansion only.

Whilst this is good as I certainly want to know what's happened to my Hawke, it's a bit of a pity it all has to be through DLC.  DLC is not a compulsory purchase to me and it normally feels like something 'extra' which is optional.  The problem is, the conclusion of this story and the outcomes for these characters shouldn't be 'extra' - it's integral to the game and worthy of a dedicated and proper full game.

An expansion like Awakening is an exception as to some extent this did feel like a new game and not just a 1 hour dlc.  It's a shame to some extent that this is how all games must progress to a conclusion now however.  I used to enjoy getting to find out the end of a game I paid for, in that game.  Stories should be brought to a natural conclusion or left to continue anew in its sequel.

Post-campaign save? I'm on the PC and I didn't get such a thing. 

[Elessara]

I'm on the PC and I got post campaign saves on 4 play throughs.

[kedcoleman]

Ah.

I see.

You've mistakenly concluded that the story of Dragon Age 2 was about Hawke. He was simply the most prominent and integral character in a story about the circumstances of the start of a Templar war.

[TJPags]

There was a post campaign save after WH, too. Just so there was a save for the choices you made.

Could be the same here.

That said, while I wouldn't be opposed to Hawke DLC, I'd have to look at each one individually when deciding what to purchase. To my mind, Hawke was a bystander during the events leading to the mage war, not integral to it. I also feel that this story is over . . the mage war started, we know how.

In short, I don't feel any compelling "need" to know what happened to Hawke or any of the companions post-DA2. If there was a DLC which interested me, and dealt with that topic, I may get it. But it's not a "must-have" for me.

[Realmzmaster]

After you complete the game a final save is made. The save puts you back at the Hawke estate. You can click on the Writing Desk. It will say no more quests are available at the moment. But you can move around the estate.

[Elessara]

The problem is that before DA2 was released Bioware was saying that Hawke was the single most important person in the Dragon Age. Being a catalyst for the Mage-Templar conflict doesn't seem important enough for me to be honest. Ok maybe it will engulf all of Thedas in war ... but so did 4 Blights and Andraste marching on Minrathous. Especially with the foreshadowing of even greater things to come what with Sandal's prophecy and such.

Now, Bioware can always say they didn't mean it that way and to be honest I wouldn't be surprised. I just hope that if there are DLC and expansion(s) that they are better than DAO's (I found many of the DLC rather underwhelming and was not especially thrilled with Awakenings either) and that they're longer.

[savagesparrow]

Elessara wrote...

The problem is that before DA2 was released Bioware was saying that Hawke was the single most important person in the Dragon Age. Being a catalyst for the Mage-Templar conflict doesn't seem important enough for me to be honest. Ok maybe it will engulf all of Thedas in war ... but so did 4 Blights and Andraste marching on Minrathous. Especially with the foreshadowing of even greater things to come what with Sandal's prophecy and such.

Now, Bioware can always say they didn't mean it that way and to be honest I wouldn't be surprised. I just hope that if there are DLC and expansion(s) that they are better than DAO's (I found many of the DLC rather underwhelming and was not especially thrilled with Awakenings either) and that they're longer.

Really? The mage/templar structure has been held together for centuries on Thedas (with the exception of the Imperium)--a structure that survived all those blights and lord knows how many other uprisings and problems. The Blights engulfing Thedas into war is kind of expected--people know the Darkspawn are bad and that they must be destroyed for no other reason than they simply won't stop coming until everything's destroyed. The mage/templar thing is much more divisive, as it's people vs. people, and potentially something that would rip Thedas apart (if what went down in Kirkwall happens on a continental scale).

So yeah, I'd say that's pretty darn important, and even though Hawke may have simply been the epicenter, the aftereffects of his/her actions will probably change things in ridiculous ways like the aftereffects of the actions of Andraste. The Warden ended a Blight, yeah, but things for the most part went back to normal. Hawke started a revolution that will affect the shape of Thedas to come.

[BubbleDncr]

I think the DLC will take place post-war starting - mainly cos in DA:O, they had that little note about "for continuity's sake, all dlc take place before the battle of denerim." And there was nothing like that at the end of DA2. It would also be weird if the DLC could take place at any one of the time periods int he game, and I dont think they'd make people replay the whole game to play a dlc that take place in Act 1 or 2.

I personally would prefer to just have 3 or 4 2 hours long dlc's, rather than an expansion. Awakenings was a pretty sizable expansion, and I'd just rather that effort goes into DA3.

[Elessara]

@savagesparrow ... Honestly yes. Maybe it's just because it feels (to me) like everything is gearing up for something even bigger yet to come.

And ok sure there's a revolution. Not all revolutions succeed. For all we know the mages will fail and get stuck right back into their Circles ... or worse. The mage-templar conflict has the *potential* to change the world. We'll have to see what's what after the dust settles.

[Super_Fr33k]

Bioware would be contradicting, or at least severely undermining, DA2's promotion and story-telling to not continue Hawke's story, and to not demonstrate Hawke's continuing relevance to the world. The Chantry, through Leliana and Cassandra, would not be going nuts trying to find Hawke and/or The Warden if they weren't still important. Cassandra was clearly convinced Hawke could somehow end the mage rebellion... why would BW abandon so much hype?

I really think post-campaign, episodic DLC should be explored. Instead of self-contained mini-adventures, or one big wrap-it-up expansion, why not release a few chapters of DLC in which Hawke is dragged back into the center of the mage rebellion? It could offer a great chance for continuing the story, but with better pacing than a conventional expansion. More to the point, it could permit course corrections -- if fans point out big problems in chapter 1, BW might tweak chapters 2 or 3.

I think this approach would be far better than post-campaign Hawke just waiting around for a minor adventure he/she could have done in Act 1. Designing DLC without being year-specific strikes me as a large burden likely to create shallow story lines...

[Elessara]

The only problem with releasing dlc that build upon each other like chapters is that to play say the 2nd dlc you are kind of required to play (and therefore buy) the first dlc. Unless you want the game to make assumptions about what you would have done - kind of like a default import. Still I'm not sure a lot of people would like that.

[TJPags]

Super_Fr33k wrote...

Bioware would be contradicting, or at least severely undermining, DA2's promotion and story-telling to not continue Hawke's story, and to not demonstrate Hawke's continuing relevance to the world. The Chantry, through Leliana and Cassandra, would not be going nuts trying to find Hawke and/or The Warden if they weren't still important. Cassandra was clearly convinced Hawke could somehow end the mage rebellion... why would BW abandon so much hype?

I really think post-campaign, episodic DLC should be explored. Instead of self-contained mini-adventures, or one big wrap-it-up expansion, why not release a few chapters of DLC in which Hawke is dragged back into the center of the mage rebellion? It could offer a great chance for continuing the story, but with better pacing than a conventional expansion. More to the point, it could permit course corrections -- if fans point out big problems in chapter 1, BW might tweak chapters 2 or 3.

I think this approach would be far better than post-campaign Hawke just waiting around for a minor adventure he/she could have done in Act 1. Designing DLC without being year-specific strikes me as a large burden likely to create shallow story lines...

With my Hawke, it would be exactly that - getting dragged back into the center of the mage rebellion.
 
If it happens, there better be a way out.

[TheBlackBaron]

Super_Fr33k wrote...

I really think post-campaign, episodic DLC should be explored. Instead of self-contained mini-adventures, or one big wrap-it-up expansion, why not release a few chapters of DLC in which Hawke is dragged back into the center of the mage rebellion? It could offer a great chance for continuing the story, but with better pacing than a conventional expansion. More to the point, it could permit course corrections -- if fans point out big problems in chapter 1, BW might tweak chapters 2 or 3.

I think this approach would be far better than post-campaign Hawke just waiting around for a minor adventure he/she could have done in Act 1. Designing DLC without being year-specific strikes me as a large burden likely to create shallow story lines...

I disagree - continuing the story post-campaign in the form of DLC, that lasts about three hours if you take it slow and do everything possible, would utterly wreck the pacing. Awakening had its flaws - plenty of them - but would anybody here really say that Golems and Witch Hunt were better in both story and gameplay? 

Doling it out in DLC episodes will also just let fan complaints about being nickle-and-dimed and the already huge amount of DLC content rise to a fever pitch. Better that Bioware gets back to their roots and fix this game as best they can with an xpack, in the vein of Throne of Baal and Mask of the Betrayer (yes, I know, Obsidian, but the important thing is that MotB was a vast improvement over the NWN2 OC).

[Foolsfolly]

Elessara wrote...

The problem is that before DA2 was released Bioware was saying that Hawke was the single most important person in the Dragon Age. Being a catalyst for the Mage-Templar conflict doesn't seem important enough for me to be honest. Ok maybe it will engulf all of Thedas in war ... but so did 4 Blights and Andraste marching on Minrathous. Especially with the foreshadowing of even greater things to come what with Sandal's prophecy and such.

Now, Bioware can always say they didn't mean it that way and to be honest I wouldn't be surprised. I just hope that if there are DLC and expansion(s) that they are better than DAO's (I found many of the DLC rather underwhelming and was not especially thrilled with Awakenings either) and that they're longer.

I still don't believe Hawke is a catalyst for anything. I believe the true catalyst is Anders and the one that the people of Thedas will believe as the Catalyst will be Grand Cleric Elthena.

Why her? Well, everyone still knows Archduke Ferdinand died and that sparked off the first World War, but do you honestly remember the name of the guy who shot him?

The rest of the world won't have people and mages clamoring over some Fereldan named Hawke or a mage named Anders they'll be screaming how mages killed Grand Cleric Elthena. Her name will be a rallying cry for many Andrastians.

Hawke isn't that important to this story. He's just our portal into what happened.

[-Skorpious-]

Please - not another new hero. What happened to "Become the most important person in Thedas"?

[TheBlackBaron]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Why her? Well, everyone still knows Archduke Ferdinand died and that sparked off the first World War, but do you honestly remember the name of the guy who shot him?

Gavrilo Princip. 

The rest of the world won't have people and mages clamoring over some Fereldan named Hawke or a mage named Anders they'll be screaming how mages killed Grand Cleric Elthena. Her name will be a rallying cry for many Andrastians.

Hawke isn't that important to this story. He's just our portal into what happened.

I don't know. While logically speaking what you say is probably true, the writers are in control of the story, and if they say Hawke is the name most connected with the story (and Cassandra's hunt for her lends credence to this), then that's the case. While right now Hawke appears to be a little more than a bystander to the whole thing, possibly something changes in the three year gap that leads to her being the most prominent figure of the current war. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 10 avril 2011 - 04:53 .

[Plaintiff]

I'd actually prefer Hawke's story wrap up in DLC. I'd like Dragon Age 3 to skip ahead 5-10 years, and have a new protagonist growing up in the chaos of the Mage/Templar war.

[TJPags]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Please - not another new hero. What happened to "Become the most important person in Thedas"?

Poor execution of the story in DA2 happened to it.

[Plaintiff]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Please - not another new hero. What happened to "Become the most important person in Thedas"?

Nobody is "most important" forever. Hawke's legacy would be superceded by someone else eventually.

And I don't want to start a new game with a character I already fully formed. Unless they're going to let me import my level, class and skills over as well.

[Paraxial]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Please - not another new hero. What happened to "Become the most important person in Thedas"?

I've grown rather attached to Hawke. I'd be thoroughly depressed if Hawke didn't return as the PC in a sequel to DA2.

[Foolsfolly]

I agree with BlackBaron.

A large expansion is preferable to multiple small episodic DLCs. I'm still distrustful of episodic DLC. No one delivers them on time. The biggest case in point being Half-Life's episodes which are hilariously over-due. Valve said they would do the episodic DLCs because they could turn them out 6 months apart.

That was what, 5 or 6 years ago. Where's the finale to that? Is there even a release date rumored? No.

And if they even got them out in a timely manner there's still the fact that they're just small tiny pieces. It'd be better, in my opinion, to just wait until they're eventually collected and play them as one big whole.

Who wants to be string along over a year of DLCs?

[RavenB]

I was never under the impression they'd keep Hawke around forever. Game elements like romances would be damaged a lot by keeping the same hero over and over. Even just leveling and skills, getting stuck as one class/race forever would be boring. I'd rather have a new hero. It was always my assumption we'd get someone with a fresh slate in DA 3.

I thought the marketing slogan just meant that Hawke was going to be the most influential during the period the game encompassed. I think people read too much into it.

DLC would be fun, though. I'd buy it. They're usually cheap, anyway. Especially a larger one like Awakening would be nice to see. I hope your romance option is able to stay with you like Varric suggested, though. I know epilogues are just "rumor", but it would be nice if they did this time.

[Foolsfolly]

Also, I'd rather have a new hero for DA3.

Hawke's got nothing left unless DLC can give him something to live for.

[-Skorpious-]

Plaintiff wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Please - not another new hero. What happened to "Become the most important person in Thedas"?

Nobody is "most important" forever. Hawke's legacy would be superceded by someone else eventually.

What Legacy? Hawke didn't really do, well, anything. Meredith, Anders, and Elthenia (spelling?) were the ones who will leave a lasting impression; not Hawke. 

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 10 avril 2011 - 05:40 .