72 réponses à ce sujet

[Patriciachr34]

I just finished my third play through and this time I decided to support the Templars.  My little rogue believed that the circle was the best place for mages.  By the end of Act 2, the death of her mother pretty much set her path.  In the Act 3 final battle, my rogue was all about sparing as many lives as possible and convinced Cullen to not "raze" the circle.  Then Meredith went postal.  The Templars joined the battle against her and then surrounded my party once she was defeated. Much to my surprise, instead of just walking away, they bent their knee and I became Viscount.  I found this surpisingly satisfying.  Fenris and I still disappeared at the end, but I that was okay.

Part of me wishes that supporting the mages had the same finality that supporting the Templars did.  However, you are basically supporting an open rebellion and on the run, hiding.  So, I can see how writing a more heroic ending for this scenario could be difficult.

[Plaintiff]

I'm never going to side with the Templars. I don't mind not being viscount, since Dumar only got the job because the templars gave it to him in the fist place. It feels less like I'm getting the job on my own merit and more like they're just "letting" me be viscount until I ****** them off.

I think being on the run with my possessed apostate lover makes a more interesting ending. I just hope future DLC/campaigns allow for multiple conclusions.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 10 avril 2011 - 05:15 .

[yoshibb]

The templars seemed a lot more sane than when I sided with the mages and they were all "everyone's abominations, blarg!" I was trying to help them and I get slammed into the ground by frickin pride demons.

The only bat**** insane templar in the end was Meredith. Cullen spared some of the mages when I asked and all the templars supported the fight against Meredith in the end.

[Patriciachr34]

Well, as Varric tells Cassandra, "Fortunes change." when discussing Hawke's disappearance It just surprised me that I found this ending more satisfying than supporting the mages. It took a lot of role playing for me personally to get into my little rogue's mind set. I guess that's why I was that the ending seemed to be better.

[RavenB]

I played a mage who sympathized strongly with his fellow mages who weren't strong enough to fight to stay free like he was. By the end of the game, he was as dedicated to the "mage rebellion" as Anders. A lot of people say the mages lost anyway, but Varric says many escaped and spread word to the other circles, which rebelled as well. This seems satisfying enough for me. I guess we'll see in future releases how things faired as time progressed. I really doubt I could find satisfaction in siding with the templars, though. Supporting the "stronger" participant doesn't have the same ring to me as standing up for the oppressed minority and still making a change.

[Patriciachr34]

@RavenB...That was my thought as well, until I did this play through. I thought that I would feel really guilty at the end, but I didn't. For some reason, it just felt right. I guess i am more comfortable with order than chaos. That truly gives me pause.

[jackkel dragon]

My favorite part of my templar run was that by killing Meredith all the Circles are like "the Champion's on our side!" Not really. Doesn't stop them all from rebelling in my name. ;p

[Patriciachr34]

Yeah. I didn't get that. How does supporting the Templar's right to enforce the right of annulment inspire mages to rebel? Maybe it's because we refused to kill every mage we meet, at least that was my approach. I do think it is cool that you can influence Cullen to less severe in his attitude toward mages.

[jackkel dragon]

Cullen being sane was my favorite part of the templars, in both endings. And now that I think about it, the kersplosion that started the endgame of DA2 or the whole "we're gonna kill you, mages" thing in the templar ending might inspire mages to rebel. If I knew I was dead either way, I might rebel. ;p

The funniest part of the templar ending, besides mages looking up to you, is that you disappear anyway. "Oops! Sorry, champion. We want someone else in charge. Love, the templars." Apparently Hawke would just get in the way of the DA3 protagonist.

[Foolsfolly]

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm never going to side with the Templars. I don't mind not being viscount, since Dumar only got the job because the templars gave it to him in the fist place. It feels less like I'm getting the job on my own merit and more like they're just "letting" me be viscount until I ****** them off.

I think being on the run with my possessed apostate lover makes a more interesting ending. I just hope future DLC/campaigns allow for multiple conclusions.

You should try it at least once. It feels like the more complete ending of the two. It helps that the actions of Meredith and Orsino at least make sense; Meredith's nutso thanks to the idol and is paranoid at your intentions and Orsino is losing to the Templars and Hawke when he goes Harvester.

That alone makes the ending feel more natural. Plus, oddly enough, you get more dialogue out of Orsino before the Harvester'ing out.

And that thing where they kidnap your sibling/Love Interest makes sense since you are with the Templars.

Those things make that ending feel more satisfying to me than siding with the Mages.

Should you should totally try a Pro-Templar character once.

[RavenB]

I thought it said that if you side with the templars the mages see you negatively despite rebelling anyway, but the common people see you as a hero. That's just what I'd heard others say.

[Patriciachr34]

I think it depends on how you treat the mages. I always sent them to the circle or asked them to return. I killed the sadist Templar and was thanked by the mage I sent back to the circle. I even let the DuPries kid get laid before sending him back. He was quite happy to return after that. The only "bad apple" is Grace. She hates you either way. I think she's just bitter over losing Decimus.

Like I stated earlier, I think that convincing Cullen to only kill mages that resist makes your Hawke a rallying point for the rebellion. That is the only thing that makes sense to me. I will have to record the narration when I do another pro Templar play through. Then I can see if there is something I misunderstood or missed.

[Oneiropolos]

I actually had to get into my mage mindset my second time through to romance Anders and side with the mages at the end. And even doing that, I had to NOT recruit Sebastian because I was like >< NO! You're going to yell at me and leave when I spare Anders and I'll AGREE WITH YOU about how sparing with him is messed up! You. You're just not getting recruited.

Honestly, in the whole lead up to the game's release, I was reading the spoilers and I was TOTALLY like "Who the heck would side with the Templars?!" and then I played the game and by the end I was like "...okay, dude, Meredith is insane. She is. But my mother was killed by a mage, one just blew up the chantry, even the Dalish don't have the mage thing under control... the streets are filled with enough dead blood mages that the other blood mages shouldn't even need to cut themselves anymore. WHY would I side with the mages besides sympathy?! Maybe if I go help the Templars, I can at least... try to spare.. as many sane mages as I can.. if any are left.." And turns out, oh look, you COULD Spare a group of sane mages! So I was happy. Though when I ran into Grey Warden Bethany and Varric was all, "She is not going to like this" I was like "Crap. I know..." But then she understood and trusted in me and I was all Aw. Sisterly love.

I completely prefer the Templar ending. Orsino flipping out in the mage ending and only seeing basically bad mages in it...I mean you don't even know what happens to the others that were in the room with you when Orsino went harvester like Alain. I didn't see him dead anywhere...So I just really felt like the Templar ending was more solid, had more logical reasoning behind it in terms of what occurs in it, and a more satisfactory conclusion.

As far as mages still rising up in Hawke's name, well, I'm sure Hawke's name doesn't like that. Of course, that depends on your Hawke. All of mine have been cool with the raising up bit and even approving that the Templars are too.

Modifié par Oneiropolos, 10 avril 2011 - 06:05 .

[IanPolaris]

If you side with the Templars you are agreeing to help Meridith slaughter an entire group of people for a crime they did not commit. Meridith even (by implication) admits this and does not care. Oh and per DG, all those (all three) mages you convine the Templars to take alive become tranquiled. I think I'd rather be killed myself.

I guess it depends on your motivations, but the metastory (not the act three endings but overall metastory) seems more natural if you side with the mage. (Otherwise why would you....a hero to the Templars per Cassandra) be kicked out of Kirkwall after only a small handful of years?

-Polaris

[Oneiropolos]

Do you happen to have the post where Gaider says they became tranquilled? I'm not denying they did, because if they did, they did, I just never saw him state that so I'm curious to see his explanation for it.

[IanPolaris]

Oneiropolos wrote...

Do you happen to have the post where Gaider says they became tranquilled? I'm not denying they did, because if they did, they did, I just never saw him state that so I'm curious to see his explanation for it.

DG says this in one of his conversations with Lob.  Since Annulement means the purging of the circle no mage can be allowed to continue to exist, so the upshot is that the captured mages have to be killed or tranquilled.

-Polaris

[Artillery371]

Siding with the templars will get you a hug from Bethany, true story.

[Patriciachr34]

"I" wasn't agreeing with Meredith, my rogue was and she had her reasons. Her father and sister being apostates meant that her entire family was in constantly in danger. My rogue loved Bethany, but disapproved of her not going to the circle. She believed that she would eventually come around with gentle nudging from her big sis. Then Bethany dies. My rogue feels guilty for not being able to protect her and angry that Bethany resisted doing the one thing that would have kept her safe.

Then there's all of those blood mages running around Kirkwall, every other non blood mage gets possessed by a demon, your friend Anders is slowly being driven insane by merging with a fade spirit, and the cutest mage you know likes to consort with demons because she believes she can handle it. Mom was just the nail in the coffin for my rogue. She believed all mages needed to be locked away for everyone's protection. Yes. Annulling the circle was a bit extreme, but considering both Templars and blood mages from the circle were conspiring to overthrow Meredith and they kidnapped and attempted to kill her love Fenris, she thought that annulment might just be the right thing to do.

[Foolsfolly]

Honestly, in the whole lead up to the gamehttp://social.bioware.com/include/fckeditor/editor/images/spacer.gif's release, I was reading the spoilers and I was TOTALLY like "Who the heck would side with the Templars?!" and then I played the game and by the end I was like "...okay, dude, Meredith is insane. She is. But my mother was killed by a mage, one just blew up the chantry, even the Dalish don't have the mage thing under control... the streets are filled with enough dead blood mages that the other blood mages shouldn't even need to cut themselves anymore. WHY would I side with the mages besides sympathy?! Maybe if I go help the Templars, I can at least... try to spare.. as many sane mages as I can.. if any are left.." And turns out, oh look, you COULD Spare a group of sane mages! So I was happy. Though when I ran into Grey Warden Bethany and Varric was all, "She is not going to like this" I was like "Crap. I know..." But then she understood and trusted in me and I was all Aw. Sisterly love.

Why would you do that to yourself?

The whole enjoyment of the first playthrough is all about the story and the adventure and finding yourself swept up in things. You fly into the unknown blind and let the pieces fall where they may.

The replays are totally different experiences where you cannot help but meta-game on some subconscious level. It's usually either focused on gameplay or characters. Perhaps it's about seeing what happens when you take the Blue Pill instead of the Red Pill. But all the mystery's gone from the experience.

It's a fragile and delicate thing, the game will never be that game to you again.

I couldn't ever spoil myself on a whole game before it's release. It takes away more than it adds.

[BanksHector]

This is a case that I wish we had a third option because as much as I disagree with Meredith, I find it hard to side with the mages.

Siding with the templars just seem to be the better ending to me at least.

Modifié par BanksHector, 10 avril 2011 - 06:28 .

[Foolsfolly]

BanksHector wrote...

This is a case that I wish we had a third option because as much as I disagree with Meredith, I find it hard to side with the mages.

Siding with the templars just seem to be the better ending to me at least.

I think a third choice would miss the point. The point is that it's a choice between two terrible things. It's the choice between cancer or tuberculous.

[Patriciachr34]

I will need to cleanse my palette before I do another play through. That and I need to finish some DA:O through Witch Hunt so i can have more complete imports. I think I'll do another mage run and then another Templar run back to back to see where I stand. Now I am much confus-ed.

[Oneiropolos]

Because main stories have never been my 'thing'. I rarely sit there shocked when something happens, even not having read spoilers. The beauty of a story for me personally is never what happens but how it happens and how it is played out. The dialogue of the characters, the feeling of scenes. I personally consider it a blessing to be able to view things that way. The first time reading through a book or playing through a game is ALWAYS magical to me... it doesn't matter if I know Soandso dies or ThisorThat happens. I have friends who 'stop caring' the second they hear a spoiler and don't finish titles. That's never an issue for me, but I am careful not to let them hear any spoilers from me.

For me, it's not 'doing anything' to myself except making me more excited for a title because I blink at reading a spoiler and go, "WHOAH. How are they going to pull that one off?!" and enjoy the intricacies building up to it. Plus, I still feel more emotional than alot of players do even not knowing. I KNEW Leandra was going to die and I sobbed on her quest anyway. It didn't matter that I had preparation for the death. I don't watch spoiler VIDEOS for things, because I feel like that's showing me the exact scene as it will play out. But telling me a character is going to die and even -how- will not stop me from crying when it happens, or even an upsetting plot development. Sometimes I wish it would because Torchwood seemed to delight in how many times it could make me sob.

I also hate being startled, so my friends learned very early on to warn me if there was a jump scene in a movie that otherwise wasn't scary (I just flat out don't go to scary movies) and if a movie ends on a depressing note, they flat out tell me not to go see it. I've been like this since I was a little girl. Used to make my mom sick of things because I could literally watch the same movie twice a day and I'd go like a month of being obsessed to one movie, and then the next. Short Circuit was one of those...I don't even know how long it's been since I've seen that...

[Addai]

I did a templar ending, and it was well done. Hawke made the argument that I find the most compelling in her little pep speech, when she said that annulling the Circle was an attempt to limit casualties. Like cutting off a limb to prevent gangrene spreading. It spreads anyway, but your PC doesn't know that when making the decision.

Ultimately I'll see the mage ending as my "canon," and Sebastian articulates this best: Why are we standing around talking about annulling the Circle when the guilty party is right there? I do hate it that the mages, starting with Anders, take my mage PC as their revolutionary inspiration. They might get some surprises down the line.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 avril 2011 - 06:41 .

[sphinxess]

IanPolaris wrote...

Oneiropolos wrote...

Do you happen to have the post where Gaider says they became tranquilled? I'm not denying they did, because if they did, they did, I just never saw him state that so I'm curious to see his explanation for it.

DG says this in one of his conversations with Lob.  Since Annulement means the purging of the circle no mage can be allowed to continue to exist, so the upshot is that the captured mages have to be killed or tranquilled.

-Polaris

I wish there was a Darth Vader in the Jedi temple moment - kill those mage kids!!!