190 réponses à ce sujet

[Marionetten]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Also, wasn't it Anders who changed the fate of Thedas?

It was. BioWare made the mistake of making Hawke a mere errand boy for the more interesting characters. You're supposed to become increasingly important but it never actually pays off. Rookie mistake.

[Crash_7]

Marionetten wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Also, wasn't it Anders who changed the fate of Thedas?

It was. BioWare made the mistake of making Hawke a mere errand boy for the more interesting characters. You're supposed to become increasingly important but it never actually pays off. Rookie mistake.

Without Hawke Anders would have remained an obscure coward hiding from himself.  Anders, also see the opportunity that Hawke offers.  When the wind blows so firmly in a single direction all bend to its whim.  Anders may have lit the fuse but Hawke provides the materials.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

CloudOfShadows wrote...

The fights felt way more epic than DA:O.

The characters weren't no longer trying to move weapons in slow-mo. Obviously not all people fancy epicness in fights, though.

Again, the devil is in the details.

I actually like the faster paced combat, cross class combos, etc. But it's like a one step forward, two steps backward thing. No top down camera for PCs, waves, materialising enemies, higher difficulty =/= extra skills or abilities for enemies just MOAR enemies with MOAR HP!! and so forth.

But obviously, the topic is about the story/narrative/plot. Not the combat.

Plus I don't see how faster animations makes things more epic.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 10 avril 2011 - 03:10 .

[SoR82]

A revolution can be epic certainly... or it can be comedic (see fable 3 chicken trailer). Hawkes "adventure" for me was a worse crime than bad... it wreaked of apathy and lazyness.

I certainly never got the feeling at anyone point that Hawke was a Catalyst for any of the events that transpired around him... possibly due to weak writing as they rushed? The Mage revolt has been coming in Thedas for generations by the reading of the background. Hawke as the catalyst.... I cant see it myself unless hes of a mage class hes just there whether its weak writing or the rushed nature of the game or jsut the aforemention apathy on their part, I never got the feeling what Hawke was doing mattered in the slightest and THIS for me is the main crutch of DA 2 and I will smack it with said crutch until I feel better.

As for Anders well you say he saw Hawk as an oportunity yet in my game he stayed in his clinic he rarely ventured outside it save a few of his own quests and then... oh look i didnt want to help him by distracting her holiness.... and yet events still pan out the same... at least i think they do I never managed a second playthough but im infering from what people have said ahppened in their version of history

Modifié par SoR82, 10 avril 2011 - 03:13 .

[Stegoceras]

Crash_7 wrote...
I never saw it that way.  My Hawke was tossed into a raging see and either sunk or swam.  It's a story about the world around him descending into chaos; yet he still has to eat, survive and operate in a hostile climate.  For sure it could have been executed differently (better?).  With Hawke we are forced to carve a path, to see each moment for the opportunity that it represents, to take side for good or ill, and to have influence above our station by virtue of those actions.  Hawke is an anti-hero.  He is no ideologue forcing the world to bend to his philosophy: he has none.

Of course, it's entirely possible that other player see a different story than the one I am describing.  But there is nothing new in that.

I applaud your explanation, really decent, you should work for Bioware as their PR guy. Although I didn't experience any of these elements you mention in game personally, I still think it's a good explanation of the game.

I do however wonder if this was the goal of the game if all of the people working on it where actually aware of this. To me it seems a large part of the game is not adapted to such a story and this would have many people miss the little (and I'll take your word for it that they are there) nuances that drive this story. Safe to say I never experienced the game in this way. (sadly, I might add then)

Modifié par Stegoceras, 10 avril 2011 - 03:11 .

[Marionetten]

Crash_7 wrote...

Anders may have lit the fuse but Hawke provides the materials.

Precisely. Hawke plays the part of the errand boy.

Random Plebeian: Get me this, this and this.
Hawke: OKAY, SIR!

As the game progresses it becomes an increasingly tiresome routine. I liked the quests dealing with family matters more as it felt more personal and meaningful than running errands for the Viscount, the Arishok or some random peasant with a missing wife, dog or coconut. This was supposed to be about Hawke's advancement yet it ends up being more about Anders and his own little war. It reminded me far too much of the mage origin with Jowan.

Modifié par Marionetten, 10 avril 2011 - 03:14 .

[ChickenDownUnder]

I dunno. Some of the battles felt a bit more on the epic side. Like certain potentially optional boss in the Deep Roads. Come to think of it, that was really the only boss that required any sort of strategy to actually defeat.

Soloing a qunari would have probably come across as more cool to me if I hadn't been playing a mage, what with all the running around in circles I had to do to not get Hawke skewered repeatedly.

[wowpwnslol]

astrallite wrote...

Whining on the Bioware forums isn't going to get you any sympathizers.

Considering the amount of Bioware fanboys patrolling these forums, waiting to pounce on anyone criticizing this game, I suppose you're right. That doesn't make his opinion invalid, just to let you know. In fact, he's 100% correct. DA2 = errand boy quests for 10 years, coupled with surreal storyline with no explanation regarding the relic. The game screams "EA milking cash from suckers".
 

Modifié par wowpwnslol, 10 avril 2011 - 03:30 .

[Nonoru]

Mrbananagrabber wrote...

I don't exactly care, as you can see this is a mock account, I didn't link my games to it. I'll keep complaining until they ban me, then go back to playing better games than this one.

/thread

[MassEffect762]

Goes back to EA. Let your wallet do the talking. If EA can't adapt their business practices to
allow for longer development cycles then say goodbye to Bioware.(imo)

Rush job? EA.
Day 1 DLC? EA.
Streamlined? EA.
Spin? EA.

[Phantom13NWN2]

Dragon age 2 : Errand Boy

[Phantom13NWN2]

ChickenDownUnder wrote...

I dunno. Some of the battles felt a bit more on the epic side. Like certain potentially optional boss in the Deep Roads. Come to think of it, that was really the only boss that required any sort of strategy to actually defeat.

Soloing a qunari would have probably come across as more cool to me if I hadn't been playing a mage, what with all the running around in circles I had to do to not get Hawke skewered repeatedly.

I cant really understand how everyone needed to resort to kiting or circle running to beat the Arishok. I beat him one on one without kiting, as a mage..

The only problem for me was that Hawke is just a refugee/errand boy, and never comes across powerful or heroic, it makes the Arishok seem weak when you beat him in a duel.

Hawke is such a lame character.

[myztikrice]

Generally people aren't talking about their strategies on casual/normal.

[shoggoth1890]

I don't understand why people consider a ranged class trying to avoid melee to be "resorting" to kiting...

My mage got tired of running, so I just stood there and endured the knockdowns, pressing A while I read a book or grabbed some food, healing every once in awhile (Nightmare). Didn't even know he could impale you until I played that scene a second time.

[TheRealJayDee]

Crash_7 wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Also, wasn't it Anders who changed the fate of Thedas?

It was. BioWare made the mistake of making Hawke a mere errand boy for the more interesting characters. You're supposed to become increasingly important but it never actually pays off. Rookie mistake.

Without Hawke Anders would have remained an obscure coward hiding from himself.  Anders, also see the opportunity that Hawke offers.  When the wind blows so firmly in a single direction all bend to its whim.  Anders may have lit the fuse but Hawke provides the materials.

I hate Anders in DA2. Both Hawkes I played respected him for the healing he did in his clinic, but didn't like him otherwise either. I never had him in my party if the game didn't force me to take him with me. 

My Hawke was bound to be tricked into unknowingly assisting Anders with his grand scheme by collecting stuff and thus he becomes more interesting? Not really. Not helping with feeling like an important part of the story...

[sleepyowlet]

The issue I have with Hawke is that BioWare tried to make him/her an interesting character. Hello? That is MY job. Hawke is supposed to be my character in this game.

Other than that, I think it is actually Varric that made him/her a legend by telling all those tall tales. Without Varric Hawke would have remained in obscurity, and rightly so. My Warden became a legend/hero by her own merit, Hawke just had a good PR guy.

[thatbwoyblu]

People who make complain accounts are 65 year old weirdos that need to grow the F up real spit. Bioware put they heart in DA 2 and all yall old azz EMOs wanna tear it apart. I say its time for Bioware to become console exclusive and leave these old LameOs in the dust.

Modifié par thatbwoyblu, 10 avril 2011 - 06:51 .

[Mantaal]

I think the only Epic in this game is that a mass murderer who killed around 10000 Peoples, Mages, Templars, Humans, Quanri, Dwaves, Dalish, some of his group, Pirates..and so on. Is the Hero in the end.

[myztikrice]

shoggoth1890 wrote...

I don't understand why people consider a ranged class trying to avoid melee to be "resorting" to kiting...

My mage got tired of running, so I just stood there and endured the knockdowns, pressing A while I read a book or grabbed some food, healing every once in awhile (Nightmare). Didn't even know he could impale you until I played that scene a second time.

You should post a link since this isn't possible on Nightmare.

[Romantiq]

thatbwoyblu wrote...

People who make complain accounts are 65 year old weirdos that need to grow the F up real spit. Bioware put they heart in DA 2 and all yall old azz EMOs wanna tear it apart. I say its time for Bioware to become console exclusive and leave these old LameOs in the dust.

You know, even if I was in love with this game I'd feel so disgusted that individuals like you are on the supportive side.

[abaris]

thatbwoyblu wrote...

People who make complain accounts are 65 year old weirdos that need to grow the F up real spit. Bioware put they heart in DA 2 and all yall old azz EMOs wanna tear it apart. I say its time for Bioware to become console exclusive and leave these old LameOs in the dust.

Uhm, spellcheck?

And Bioware putting their hearts into this? Even though I suspect, a portion of players got it from mommy, here's the deal: Mommy had to pay for it. It wasn't a free gift out of the goodness of the developer's heart.

[EccentricSage]

I have to say the main storyline is actually more epic than DA:O by my standards, because it's more personal and it sets the stage for something that will CHANGE THE WORLD. I have to say I have great admiration for the writing team for what they tried to do. I'm only disappointed that EA and some of the other dev teams really held the game back from reaching it's full potential. They should have put even more resources into the writing/VA/animations so that the Role Play element could have been perfected. There are many points where great stories and painful outcomes are ruined by jarringly limited reactions. Take for instance when someone dies, and you don't get any choice in weather you put them out of their missery, very few dialogue choices, not enough emotion expressed in the animation and VA, and when it's over, the PC and Verric still talk about it in a casual tone, and Varric still says 'well, at least you'll be rich now '. WTF. I raged so hard.

Likewise, the lack of any sort of implementation of a way to disguise the mages in your party early on, etc. is just stupid and plot breaking. You have Cullen talking to a party of mages who just used their magic right in front of him as though he had somehow not noticed, but he still 'figures you out' later and will take someone you know to the Circle, while letting others in your company go. Seriously, WTF.

I hope that the next game gets a couple years of development at least, and that these glaring game mechanic issues will be addressed. Don't f*** tell me "perfect in game logic is not important" in a f*** RPG. YES IT IS.


*edit*  I also want to add that I don't understand the need for some relic to be part of the storyline.  The escalation between two groups, the opressors and the opressed, leading to extream measures that may or may not be justifiable is a very strong narrative on it's own.  The idea that it never really would have come to that if not for some relic, or if not for a magical demon gate (hellmouth) under the city just weakens the whole plot!  If you take away these two pathetic plot devices, the story of Mages vs Templars is an exilent parallel to, for one example, the Palastinians vs Israel.  I think all of the focus should have been placed on the psychology behind the mindsets of the desperately and wrongfully disenfranchised vs the psychology of the opressors who truly believe they are doing what is rightious and necassary for their own protection and for the welfare of their land.  It's actually a very daring and very relevant narative.  Risky, even, since it humanises terrorists, in efect.  (I love Anders and agree with him.) 

Modifié par EccentricSage, 10 avril 2011 - 07:20 .

[Shasow]

Change the world? You mean change the city? More personal? I thought your actions don't mean s***?

Honostly, defeating an archdemon is more world changing than defeating an obsessed templar and an elf mage.

Modifié par Shasow, 10 avril 2011 - 07:37 .

[Shasow]

I couldn't agree with the title of this topic more. Well, maybe a little. Combat was fun-ish.