44 réponses à ce sujet

[saracen16]

Hey, all.

I've been thinking: should Mass Effect 3 have global ability cooldowns (circa Mass Effect 2), single ability cooldowns (circa Mass Effect 1), or should it have some different system altogether? Personally, I think the idea of warping enemy armor followed by a quick cryo blast can really spice things up (i.e. use powers in combination), or an overload followed by a throw (yes, my Shep is a Sentinel)...

Or maybe an intermediate version, where biotic powers have a global cooldown for them only, and tech powers have their own cooldown as well?

I dunno... what do you guys think?

[Kronner]

Global, please keep the global cooldown. It's so much better.

[roflchoppaz]

Ammo Powers to be removed and replaced with special mods that can be evolved (maybe class-specific if you wanna keep the ME2 vibe).

Tech, Combat, Biotic powers to have separate cooldowns. Unity with a separate cooldown, too.

That would be perfect, imo.

[Bozorgmehr]

saracen16 wrote...

I think the idea of warping enemy armor followed by a quick cryo blast can really spice things up (i.e. use powers in combination), or an overload followed by a throw (yes, my Shep is a Sentinel)...

You can do all that - use your squadmates, that's what they are for (squadmate 1 Overloads shields, squadmate 2 Pulls, Sentinel Shep fires Warp > BOOM - you can setup combos like this one in less than a second).

ME2's global CD system is why this sequal has an improved combat system. Instead of ME1's use power, power, power, power > shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot (helpless enemies), ME2's is like power, shoot, power, shoot, power, shoot. Powers are still crucial to fight effectively, but without completely trivializing gameplay like in ME1 - major improvement imo.

[TobyHasEyes]

Kronner wrote...

Global, please keep the global cooldown. It's so much better.

This

[xiiz]

Not sure, I kinda like the ME1 system.. But perhaps if they could come up with some hybrid-system that'd be great.. Something like roflchoppaz said where biotic/tech etc. have different cooldowns.

Either way, using powers is a heck of a lot more fun than shooting, which was never spectacularly good in the ME games imo..

[Minister of Sound]

Maybe we should throw cooldowns out the window and move to a dark energy point system for powers.

[Dave666]

Combination of the two. Global Cooldown of say 2 seconds and Individual Cooldowns (depending on particular abilities) of say 6 seconds.

Example of how it could work:

Adept Shep sees an enemy with a Barrier and casts Warp, both Cooldowns kick in and a small icon appears at the bottom of the screen indicating Warp is now on CD, it 'fills' as time passes and then dissapears when CD is up. After Casting Warp both Cooldowns have kicked in and you can't use any ability until the Global CD is up. Once the Global CD is up you are now free to use ANY ability EXCEPT Warp (which by this point is now on 4 seconds CD).

This system would encourage players to use combo's and discourage spamming a single ability over and over again.

Numbers provided as an example only.

Modifié par Dave666, 10 avril 2011 - 12:25 .

[Kronner]

Dave666 wrote...

..

This system would encourage players to use combo's and discourage spamming a single ability over and over again.

This can also be limiting, if you actually want to use some ability over and over again (e.g. Charge, its the main reason I play Vanguard and I enjoy using it over and over again). But I guess if both cooldowns started at the same time, it would not be bad at all. But then again, the powerful abilities would have to be nerfed if the global cooldown was so short and you could use a different power so soon. Double edged sword for sure.

Modifié par Kronner, 10 avril 2011 - 12:35 .

[Dexi]

[quote]Dave666 wrote...

Combination of the two. Global Cooldown of say 2 seconds and Individual Cooldowns (depending on particular abilities) of say 6 seconds.

Example of how it could work:

Adept Shep sees an enemy with a Barrier and casts Warp, both Cooldowns kick in and a small icon appears at the bottom of the screen indicating Warp is now on CD, it 'fills' as time passes and then dissapears when CD is up. After Casting Warp both Cooldowns have kicked in and you can't use any ability until the Global CD is up. Once the Global CD is up you are now free to use ANY ability EXCEPT Warp (which by this point is now on 4 seconds CD).

This system would encourage players to use combo's and discourage spamming a single ability over and over again.

Numbers provided as an example only.
[/quote]



[quote]Dexi wrote...

[quote]Warlocomotf wrote...

My biggest dislike about adepts in ME2 is the global cooldown- I undersatnd why it was needed, but personally I'd have preferred a compromise. A short global cooldown, and a power specific cooldown.

[/quote]

I once started a thread with exactly this idea contained in it. 

[Dave666]

Kronner wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

..

This system would encourage players to use combo's and discourage spamming a single ability over and over again.

This can also be limiting, if you actually want to use some ability over and over again (e.g. Charge, its the main reason I play Vanguard and I enjoy using it over and over again). But I guess if both cooldowns started at the same time, it would not be bad at all. But then again, the powerful abilities would have to be nerfed if the global cooldown was so short and you could use a different power so soon. Double edged sword for sure.

Hell, I'd be the first to admit that it would need a lot of tweaking, as I said those numbers were there to give people an idea of how it could work.  It would however provide better options for dealing with enemies.  As it stands the GCD is only a hinderance to power users, Vangards can (if they wish) simply use Charge, Soldiers can simply use Ar (and lets face it, most do just that), Infiltrators can just use Cloak.  Even on Insanity those three abilities can get you through the game quite easilly, I know, I did it myself once because I was curious.

Adepts, Engineers and Sentinels (though the Sentinel can just use TA) are heavilly reliant on powers (and should be).  How many people don't use Barrier for example because it puts all abilities on CD? With my proposed system you could use Barrier AND other abilities.  Just Give Barrier a 10 second Individual CD.

Modifié par Dave666, 10 avril 2011 - 12:45 .

[grumpymooselion]

Prefered?

1. Ammo Powers are now mods to individual weapons again.

2. Powers in general have ME2's short cooldowns, but ME1's separate cooldowns.

3. Unity has its own separate cooldown too.

4. Adepts can completely abandon conventional weapons (if they want) and get a new "filler" Biotic power that replaces the need for conventional weaponry in between Biotic Power cooldowns. If I wanted to shoot a gun, I have 7 other classes to choose from. I picked an Adept to use Biotics. Give it a thermal clip-like system to give it proper limitation so that it's not simply an unlimited alternative to conventional weapons.

5. If ME2 short cooldowns and ME1 separate cooldowns can't work for every class, then just do it for the ones like Adepts that are supposed to have the option to use Biotics as their primary combat mode.

[Walker White]

Keep the ammo powers. The use of special ammo should be solider-specific training (squad ammo allows you to supervise its use in your squad).

Plus, you want ammo on the power wheel. Mods are most likely only going to be possible on the Normandy (at your fabrication plant), and will not be possible in mission.

[TheConfidenceMan]

Global cooldown sucked, period, especially combined with the crappy way you couldn't use any of the fun biotics on shielded enemies. I find it hard to believe that anyone actually preferred it, though I guess the BDF will defend any change no matter how moronic.

[Art3m]

No! Global cooldown just don't make any sense. I'm okay with cooldown of "one genre" powers, but why can't i use tech ones after biotics and vice versa?

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Global, it's much better. Made squadmates much more useful and the combat much more tactical.

Now, I don't know how ammo would be better handled. Powers worked very well within the game design I should say. It depends on their level design and how they will handle the rpg elements. Mods would work again, but hell, upgradeable ammo, not loot again. Seriously.

[termokanden]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Global cooldown sucked, period, especially combined with the crappy way you couldn't use any of the fun biotics on shielded enemies. I find it hard to believe that anyone actually preferred it, though I guess the BDF will defend any change no matter how moronic.

Or maybe the changes aren't as a moronic as you think.

I started out hating the global cooldown. But at this point after many playthroughs of both games I'm quite convinced it works better now than it did. They could tweak it a bit and I guess they will.

But ME1 had a silly cooldown system. They start out way ridiculously high. Then by the end of the game, you can "stunlock" thing with biotics and use insane defensive powers like Barrier and Immunity constantly. That's also silly.

[Bozorgmehr]

Art3mShepard wrote...

No! Global cooldown just don't make any sense. I'm okay with cooldown of "one genre" powers, but why can't i use tech ones after biotics and vice versa?

Coz only Sentinels benefit by it and giving them infinite TA plus (biotic) powers that can be used while being indestructible would make Sentinels even more broken than they already are.

[Dave666]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Art3mShepard wrote...

No! Global cooldown just don't make any sense. I'm okay with cooldown of "one genre" powers, but why can't i use tech ones after biotics and vice versa?

Coz only Sentinels benefit by it and giving them infinite TA plus (biotic) powers that can be used while being indestructible would make Sentinels even more broken than they already are.

Have to agree here, seperate Tech and Biotic CD's only helps Sentinels.  I was suggesting an alternative that could benefit any class.  Even Soldiers could use AR and CS at the same time under my proposal(though I personally feel that AR is too powerful as it currently stands).

[Warlocomotf]

Reposting what I posted in the Adepts thread- though this honestly goes for all powers:

My biggest dislike about adepts in ME2 is the global cooldown- I undersatnd why it was needed, but personally I'd have preferred a compromise. A short global cooldown, and a power specific cooldown.

This not only allows the Biotic to be more than "part time" useful, but also allows you to introduce more powerful powers- currently you can't really have a very powerful ability because there's no good and fun way to balance the cooldown- long cooldown and you can't do anything for too long, short cooldown and it'll end up all you're doing.

Say if a strong power had a 3s GCD and 20s normal cooldown (or slightly different numbers, irrlevant really)- this would give you the fun "I have this awesome ability", the fun "I'm not constantly locked out of all my powers", and the balance (the fun "I'm using more than just 1 of my abilities")

By "strong power" I ofcourse don't mean grossly overpowered, just something slightly beyond regular abilities.

[x-wrentaile]

Global cool downs discourage skill combos; but makes sense in a energy point sort of way.

Individual cool downs make the game more fun (everyone loves combos) and encourages the devs to be more creative in their powers. But depending on the type of power, it is hard to justify in game terms. It makes sense for technological skills (unless they run off a central capacitor), but makes less sense for biotics.

Personally, I prefer individual cool downs. Actually I prefer an EP system, but of the two kinds of cool downs, I say individual.


Also, ammo powers need to go. They make no sense, especially at the squad level.

[termokanden]

Global cooldowns don't discourage combos. By yourself it won't be as quick, but that's what squadmates are for.

Modifié par termokanden, 10 avril 2011 - 03:40 .

[Freeride600]

I like the short, global cooldowns. A 40 second cooldown a single power isn't good.

[termokanden]

Freeride600 wrote...

I like the short, global cooldowns. A 40 second cooldown a single power isn't good.

No it isn't. This is the exact problem they needed to solve for ME2. Individual cooldowns started out MUCH too high, and then somehow by the end of the game you could be a biotic machine gun.

[Warlocomotf]

termokanden wrote...

Global cooldowns don't discourage combos. By yourself it won't be as quick, but that's what squadmates are for.

I don't think that's entirely true- the global cooldown does not make combo's impossible- entirely true. It does discourage them to some degree. For example, you can't bank squad member attacks- and to be able to use squad powers you generally also need to disable the automated use. A lot of players (esspecially new players) prefer to just control their own character (not saying it's good, it is however how many new players play their game).

Again, global cooldown does not make it impossible by any means, it does discourage them to a degree.