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[Torax]

RavenB wrote...

Wee Joe Green wrote...

Torax wrote...

RavenB wrote...

It may also be worth considering that other Old Gods still exist and Morrigan (and/or Flemeth) have had ten years to root one up if they were really set on finding one for whatever it is that they're planning. It's not impossible that they could acquire a different soul through other methods, if unlikely.

The Grey Wardens know where the remaining 2 are located supposedly. It's locked up by the First Warden I'm sure but it's something they pay close attention to. Now if Flemeth was the Trickster (Though some say the Maker = the Trickster), then Flemeth knows where the old gods aren possibly where the Pantheon are. The question would be is the World ready for them. Are they all benevolent or are even some of them very rash and violent. Enough that they had to be locked away above along with the Forgotten Ones. What would happen if they returned?

Do both necessarily have to exist?  It is, when viewed in its most rudimentary form, belief.  We do not know that the Pantheon say for example exist.  We have various forms of religion in our world yet I think it safe to say the majority of people only believe in a certain group or one and not all.  The same may transfer to the world of Ferelden. (I get confused sometime as to which is the world and which is the country/provence)

I'm not sure this contributes much to the discussion but it is perhaps something we shouldn't overlook.  There may not be any trickster other than that which is lore and believed.

The Old Gods, I think, we're pretty sure on. What exactly they ARE, maybe not sure on, but that they EXIST is a pretty sure bet. Unless you want to replay Origins and just try telling the Archdemon he's not real at the end? XD

But I think the elven gods/the maker/etc is still pretty unproven, as far as I know. It's possible one religion is true and one is not, or that they're talking about the same gods with different stories. When you consider, the story of the maker locking up the old gods and the story of the elven gods being sealed away has an uncomfortably close connection.

The most uncomfortable connections are the numbers and the communcations of the ones that were both thrown under ground.

7 Gods in the Pantheon were Warring the "Forgotten Ones" The total for the Forgotten is not known.

The Dread Wolf was 1 of the Pantheon. That leaves 6 of the Pantheon still trapped.


7 Old Gods worshipped by the Magisters. Most of their names are violent. Fear and power type names.

The Old Gods contacted the Magisters in their Dreams.

This last bit from Elven Codex.

"Only in dreams do we hear whispered the names of Geldauran and Daern'thal and Anaris, for they are the Forgotten Ones, the gods of terror and malice, spite and pestilence."

The Elves did not seem to hear from the Pantheon however. They like the Dreadwolf were Silent.

Modifié par Torax, 10 avril 2011 - 08:33 .

[Wee Joe Green]

jsteinhauer wrote...

The corner that Bioware has backed itself into is not simply whether to expound upon the OGB issue. A very vocal part of the audience has become extremely emotionally attached to the concept and probably has preconceived notions about where that part of the story should go. I suspect that no matter what they do with that branch of Dragon Age, many of those who are most interested in it will be loudly disappointed in the outcome.

I doubt at the outset that they were interested in pursuing DA2 add-on content about a character who did not even appear in the game or a sequel game that focuses intently on a character and events from two games ago.

"probably has preconceived notions about where that part of the story should go", haha, have you read much of this thread?   I would say with certainty that this has been evidenced by the posts.

I personally will be happy (on the whole) with whatever they decide upon, provided it is at least encountered again at some point, to some extent and not just brushed under the carpet.

Oh and the developer Laidlaw has already stated that they haven't forgotten about Morrigan.  This was some time ago but I feel fairly certain they will give some explanation (great or poor) which elaborates on what happened.  I would also like to believe, as I've clearly expressed, that it will form some degree of importance in the future events, just more than likely nowhere as important as alluded to in this thread.

Modifié par Wee Joe Green, 10 avril 2011 - 08:35 .

[Torax]

RavenB wrote...

Torax wrote...

RavenB wrote...

A living person walking around out there somewhere with the soul of a god doesn't seem like something that just "goes away" to me, personally. It seems odd to me that they'd make Witch Hunt as is if that were so. A good portion of the conversation with her for MY character (most of it, in fact) was about "our" child. During which she talked about the child's destiny and made it seem rather important before he went with her through the mirror. That seems extremely unnatural to me in the story line if it's just never mentioned again. If it were just the Origins end, then I could almost swallow that, but why compound it with Witch Hunt? Why wouldn't they just play it down if they were going to axe the storyline.

OGB plot abortion just doesn't seem likely to me in light of Witch Hunt. But I won't state my opinion as fact, definitely. It does seem like they're in an odd position here to work out in a way that pleases everyone. I'm almost doubtful that's going to happen at all.

I still lean that the thing that truly stops the OGB from being part of the story in any crucial way is that the Hero could be with said child. Since the old heroes had too many variants and did not talk. And it's exclusive to only males to go through the Mirror? I don't really see them ever really touching that again along with the baby. Like if they paint anything it would maybe be a DLC with a 20 foot pole.

Well, the Warden won't live forever. I'm not saying they have to pick up the OGB for DA 3 specifically, but in the OGB's mid-late 20's the warden will be getting close to succumbing to the taint as a warden, if he doesn't die one of countless other ways. This is also likely when they'd be coming to full power and confidence in stepping out in the open. It's pretty easy to write out someone who feasibly faces mortal danger on a daily basis AND who is on a shortened lifespan to begin with.

Yes but at the very time to touch on it and not have the warden appear to would anger many. Plus if you did have the Warden there then the Females who had Alistair or Loghain do it will feel cheated. It's like no good solution comes from touching on the baby.

[Wee Joe Green]

CaptainIsabela wrote...

I'm not saying I definately believe this, but what if there was Hawke and the Warden in DA3..but Hawke was the playable character, along with maybe whoever you romanced - if anyone. I mean, Hawke did not die in anyones game, but it is possible that the Warden did. It is probably going to Orlais and hopefully will have something to do with Flemeth, and more than likely something to do with the start of the mage/templar stuff. Where Morrigan's god-child will fit in, I don't know. Obviously all this is probably completely wrong..but there are sooo many options and unanswered questions How exciting..

Not at all you're quite right with alot of what you said, and yes, it is exciting isn't it?

[Wee Joe Green]

TJPags wrote...

But as I said earlier, the Morrigan storyline =/= the OGB storyline.  I'm not so sure that Bioware really intended the OGB to be the story - more the fact that Morrigan has a way to survive the AD.  I could easily be wrong here, of course.

But its conceivable that they never intended the OGB to be a big deal, and to the extent that it is, it may be a fan creation.  Speaking for my games, I always do the DR, but not because I always care about Morrigan, more because I simply see no reason to die if its not necessary.  And I could care less about the baby that results.

I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way.

But it's not always about whether they intended that child to be or form part of the future story.  It's about the fact it has opened an avenue which presents choices to them and a story which is clearly compelling on some level, else none of you would have bothered to come and share you opinions on my original post.

Any games company, like any money making company, is going to want to explore opportunities and especially ones which will sell and generate money and interest.  Clearly it may be they do not wish for this to be the premise of a future game or the next one; but it might be.

[RavenB]

Torax wrote...

RavenB wrote...

Torax wrote...

RavenB wrote...

A living person walking around out there somewhere with the soul of a god doesn't seem like something that just "goes away" to me, personally. It seems odd to me that they'd make Witch Hunt as is if that were so. A good portion of the conversation with her for MY character (most of it, in fact) was about "our" child. During which she talked about the child's destiny and made it seem rather important before he went with her through the mirror. That seems extremely unnatural to me in the story line if it's just never mentioned again. If it were just the Origins end, then I could almost swallow that, but why compound it with Witch Hunt? Why wouldn't they just play it down if they were going to axe the storyline.

OGB plot abortion just doesn't seem likely to me in light of Witch Hunt. But I won't state my opinion as fact, definitely. It does seem like they're in an odd position here to work out in a way that pleases everyone. I'm almost doubtful that's going to happen at all.

I still lean that the thing that truly stops the OGB from being part of the story in any crucial way is that the Hero could be with said child. Since the old heroes had too many variants and did not talk. And it's exclusive to only males to go through the Mirror? I don't really see them ever really touching that again along with the baby. Like if they paint anything it would maybe be a DLC with a 20 foot pole.

Well, the Warden won't live forever. I'm not saying they have to pick up the OGB for DA 3 specifically, but in the OGB's mid-late 20's the warden will be getting close to succumbing to the taint as a warden, if he doesn't die one of countless other ways. This is also likely when they'd be coming to full power and confidence in stepping out in the open. It's pretty easy to write out someone who feasibly faces mortal danger on a daily basis AND who is on a shortened lifespan to begin with.

Yes but at the very time to touch on it and not have the warden appear to would anger many. Plus if you did have the Warden there then the Females who had Alistair or Loghain do it will feel cheated. It's like no good solution comes from touching on the baby.

I don't think it makes much sense to be upset about it, honestly. If DA keeps up with time leaps like it has, they're not going to go through many games before they have to replace the whole cast. DA 2 jumped ahead 10 years. If they jumped ahead 10 years next time, everyone would be 40-50? A little old for adventurers. I think that everyone is probably going to get phased out eventually and replaces with knew figures in the world. It's possible that they'll only jump ahead a couple years between DA 3 and it's DLC, like they did with Origins, but I don't think I'd get comfortably attached to the immediate cast when they're all going to be pushing 40...

About the religious differences, though, I totally agree with you. I think the elves and the Andrastians are approaching the same gods from different perspectives.

[Wee Joe Green]

RavenB wrote...

A living person walking around out there somewhere with the soul of a god doesn't seem like something that just "goes away" to me, personally. It seems odd to me that they'd make Witch Hunt as is if that were so. A good portion of the conversation with her for MY character (most of it, in fact) was about "our" child. During which she talked about the child's destiny and made it seem rather important before he went with her through the mirror. That seems extremely unnatural to me in the story line if it's just never mentioned again. If it were just the Origins end, then I could almost swallow that, but why compound it with Witch Hunt? Why wouldn't they just play it down if they were going to axe the storyline.

OGB plot abortion just doesn't seem likely to me in light of Witch Hunt. But I won't state my opinion as fact, definitely. It does seem like they're in an odd position here to work out in a way that pleases everyone. I'm almost doubtful that's going to happen at all.

This is it though isn't it, and if it means anything I agree with you.  This is something I've been saying since the start.  Elaborating on the idea with dlc and building a plot concept which has gripped its audience and sold remarkably well, only to later disregard it would be unfathomable.

[Torax]

RavenB wrote...

Torax wrote...

Yes but at the very time to touch on it and not have the warden appear to would anger many. Plus if you did have the Warden there then the Females who had Alistair or Loghain do it will feel cheated. It's like no good solution comes from touching on the baby.

I don't think it makes much sense to be upset about it, honestly. If DA keeps up with time leaps like it has, they're not going to go through many games before they have to replace the whole cast. DA 2 jumped ahead 10 years. If they jumped ahead 10 years next time, everyone would be 40-50? A little old for adventurers. I think that everyone is probably going to get phased out eventually and replaces with knew figures in the world. It's possible that they'll only jump ahead a couple years between DA 3 and it's DLC, like they did with Origins, but I don't think I'd get comfortably attached to the immediate cast when they're all going to be pushing 40...

About the religious differences, though, I totally agree with you. I think the elves and the Andrastians are approaching the same gods from different perspectives.

Judged by how upset people get just over Anders or the circle or Meredith and the Right of Annulment. I think OGB could upset even more people. Especially all the ones who tend to hold Origins as more sacred.

[Wee Joe Green]

I bet when considering all this and thinking about their options, they wished they had just voiced the original Warden now, as to do so would have solved alot of continuity problems, allowing the Warden to feature in future games without necessarily being a playable character.

[RavenB]

I don't doubt that some people are going to be upset with what they do if they use the character, but I definitely don't think everyone will be happy with them scrapping the idea, either. I don't necessarily think "don't bother" is going to make more people happy than the chance of not living up to expectations. But I think they're at a gamble basically no matter what they do. No video game series will ever please everyone, all of these specific issues aside.

They have the numbers as to how often the ritual was performed, how much the elaboration in Witch Hunt was explored, etc. I trust them to do (or at least attempt to do) what's best for the majority with it. And if I happen to be in the minority, well, that's how it goes, right? XD

[Torax]

RavenB wrote...

I don't doubt that some people are going to be upset with what they do if they use the character, but I definitely don't think everyone will be happy with them scrapping the idea, either. I don't necessarily think "don't bother" is going to make more people happy than the chance of not living up to expectations. But I think they're at a gamble basically no matter what they do. No video game series will ever please everyone, all of these specific issues aside.

They have the numbers as to how often the ritual was performed, how much the elaboration in Witch Hunt was explored, etc. I trust them to do (or at least attempt to do) what's best for the majority with it. And if I happen to be in the minority, well, that's how it goes, right? XD

They have so much to still write about that I doubt they even need to reach into that hat for a long time. They can continue the Morrigan story without including the child after all. Same for Flemeth.

Modifié par Torax, 10 avril 2011 - 08:59 .

[TobiTobsen]

RavenB wrote...

I don't doubt that some people are going to be upset with what they do if they use the character, but I definitely don't think everyone will be happy with them scrapping the idea, either. I don't necessarily think "don't bother" is going to make more people happy than the chance of not living up to expectations. But I think they're at a gamble basically no matter what they do. No video game series will ever please everyone, all of these specific issues aside.

They have the numbers as to how often the ritual was performed, how much the elaboration in Witch Hunt was explored, etc. I trust them to do (or at least attempt to do) what's best for the majority with it. And if I happen to be in the minority, well, that's how it goes, right? XD

Did you learn nothing from Anders? If we are in the minority, we will complain, whine and accuse the ultimate sacrifice people of enslaving us to their decisions and taking our free will away, until somebody blows up the Bioware headquarter and the war between OGB fanboys and US fanboys begins.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 10 avril 2011 - 09:03 .

[Vicious]

Mark my freakin words, DA3 is going to have Origins. And one of those Origins will be Morrigan's kid.

The difference being that you are RACELOCKED as Human regardless of what origin you picked. So in essence it's more like Mass Effect's 'origins' except you get to play through them a la DA:O.


And it also gives Bioware a fine excuse as to why the main character does not have an utterly annoying french accent when the game takes place in Orlais.

[RavenB]

TobiTobsen wrote...

RavenB wrote...

I don't doubt that some people are going to be upset with what they do if they use the character, but I definitely don't think everyone will be happy with them scrapping the idea, either. I don't necessarily think "don't bother" is going to make more people happy than the chance of not living up to expectations. But I think they're at a gamble basically no matter what they do. No video game series will ever please everyone, all of these specific issues aside.

They have the numbers as to how often the ritual was performed, how much the elaboration in Witch Hunt was explored, etc. I trust them to do (or at least attempt to do) what's best for the majority with it. And if I happen to be in the minority, well, that's how it goes, right? XD

Did you learn nothing from Anders? If we are in the minority, we will complain, whine and accuse the ultimate sacrifice people of enslaving us to their decisions and taking our free will away, until somebody blows up the Bioware headquarter and the war between OGB fanboys and US fanboys begins.

But Bioware is a gentle mother, not a scolding father. She knows we learn best on our own. :innocent:

[Sloth22]

Has Bioware said anything about whether or not they will continue anything with Morrigan's story?

[Wee Joe Green]

Vicious wrote...

Mark my freakin words, DA3 is going to have Origins. And one of those Origins will be Morrigan's kid.

The difference being that you are RACELOCKED as Human regardless of what origin you picked. So in essence it's more like Mass Effect's 'origins' except you get to play through them a la DA:O.


And it also gives Bioware a fine excuse as to why the main character does not have an utterly annoying french accent when the game takes place in Orlais.

Hey this isn't a bad idea?!

What's to say they couldn't opt for an Origins outset like DAO in which you choose the source of your playable character's beginnings.  In this way, those who opted to have Morrigan conceive the child get their way and for those whom it wouldn't make sense don't have to bother and that character then won't form part of their story as it's not who they chose to play as, thus ruling out that character from the game in the same way as one who chose to play as a Dalish Elf, never saw the "City Elf" Warden that could have been.

Finally those who played all or many outcomes, can choose which they want to go for at any given time and can play each way based on the saves for each decision.

Is it just me or is that not a genius solution which now seems obvious?  Credit where it's due Vicious.

This is definitely feasible and could amacably solve the problems for either side which acknowledges and makes room for many outcomes.  It'd just need a little creativity as ever

[Wee Joe Green]

Sloth22 wrote...

Has Bioware said anything about whether or not they will continue anything with Morrigan's story?

Mike Laidlaw (pre Dragon Age 2 release)
"Q - Will we see any characters from origins in Dragon Age II?
"We are certainly not done with Morrigan's story" hints lead designer Mike Laidlaw.
"I can say that."

Now it may have been he was just referring to Witch Hunt dlc but I don't think so.  Especially following the aftermath of Witch Hunt - it didn't actually answer anything and this was quite apparently intentional.  It seemed patent they were setting it up for the future.  At the time I just assumed that would be for DA2 and never anticipated it could be two games down the line.

[Wee Joe Green]

I think testament to that fact the Morrigan and child concept is still as prevalent and important as ever is the fact that in the 10 hours since this was created, it's had over 200 posts. I think it would be a mistake to just forget about it.

[Torax]

Wee Joe Green wrote...

I think testament to that fact the Morrigan and child concept is still as prevalent and important as ever is the fact that in the 10 hours since this was created, it's had over 200 posts. I think it would be a mistake to just forget about it.

If most the posts that agree with you is just one or maybe 2 others? With you doing most the posting? That doesn't really say much.

edited to point out you just posted 3 times yourself in a row...

Modifié par Torax, 10 avril 2011 - 10:19 .

[Sloth22]

Wee Joe Green wrote...

Mike Laidlaw (pre Dragon Age 2 release)
"Q - Will we see any characters from origins in Dragon Age II?
"We are certainly not done with Morrigan's story" hints lead designer Mike Laidlaw.
"I can say that."

Now it may have been he was just referring to Witch Hunt dlc but I don't think so.  Especially following the aftermath of Witch Hunt - it didn't actually answer anything and this was quite apparently intentional.  It seemed patent they were setting it up for the future.  At the time I just assumed that would be for DA2 and never anticipated it could be two games down the line.

Ya i was just kinda worried they would end the story with Witch Hunt, which i think would be VERY bad.

[sphinxess]

How many people want to play as the old soul person just cause they hope the child will be a uber badass - boring

[Wee Joe Green]

Torax wrote...

Wee Joe Green wrote...

I think testament to that fact the Morrigan and child concept is still as prevalent and important as ever is the fact that in the 10 hours since this was created, it's had over 200 posts. I think it would be a mistake to just forget about it.

If most the posts that agree with you is just one or maybe 2 others? With you doing most the posting? That doesn't really say much.

edited to point out you just posted 3 times yourself in a row...

Only because I've been trying to reply to all the posts which merit it.  Just being courteous.

Plus, besides me, you've been about the most active poster.  I didn't say you had to agree with my views for it to be a topic of interest and therefore importance.  If you had no interest in it, you wouldn't have contributed, am I not correct?  Despite vehemently opposing the proposition, you also said you had a saved character whom conceived the child with Morrigan and you felt it was a shame you would likely not see further explanation of the Warden and his involvement with the child.

[Torax]

I think it's only important to you. It's the opposite of important to the people who think it's a crappy form of story telling.

[Wee Joe Green]

sphinxess wrote...

How many people want to play as the old soul person just cause they hope the child will be a uber badass - boring

If you read some of the comments from SirLogical and myself a little bit back maybe you won't think this need be so?

Playing as a "demi-god" who has the soul of one of the old gods and archdemon, whilst being unconfined like those other gods below, presents many exciting narrative avenues.  This role could be linked to everything which has been built so far, the future blights and mage/templar war among them.  Potentially only an adolescent, this individual could represent the return of the Magisters and many beneficial/unintended consequences to follow.

I'm not going to reitereate what's been said more than this (and for detail, see previously) but this is far from an uninspired and "boring" storyline which could compliment the one built in DA2.

Modifié par Wee Joe Green, 10 avril 2011 - 10:41 .

[Wee Joe Green]

Torax wrote...

I think it's only important to you. It's the opposite of important to the people who think it's a crappy form of story telling.

That's it.  We're definitely rivals.

Modifié par Wee Joe Green, 10 avril 2011 - 10:40 .