102 réponses à ce sujet

[KotOREffecT]

Merchant2006 wrote...

I love these forums. The moment the grubby little fans get their small bit of meagre information that is literally 0.1% of what we shall receive in the future then their buttocks bounce off the walls like a ping pong ball in rage.

Gotta love the passion that comes with being an arrogant self entitled BioWare fan.

And their damn snide insinuations and disingenious assertions..

[Hobbes83]

marshalleck wrote...

Hobbes83 wrote...

Why introduce the series to new fans is pissing off those who had been there from the begining?

You cant compare a movie or a book to a game where you really get the opportunity to make choices that affect the entire story.

It surprises me that the Bioware forums is where I've seen more irrational hatred against bioware

I'm sorry, where did the bolded part happen? Surely you don't mean email. The biggest impact yet has been whether the Council in ME2 is willing to talk to Shepard or not, and either way it doesn't effect the rest of the game in any tangible way. 

I cant post spoilers here, but there is a lot of choices you make in ME 1 and 2 that seem pretty important to me. Letting some species survive, keeping certain base. You really think that choices doesnt matter?

We havent seen the consequences of our choices, but that doesnt mean they dont affect the rest of the game. And its seems logical to me, because if the big choices of ME1 had a really big impact in ME2 the third game would be a nightmare to develop.


PD:Sorry for my english

[shinobi602]

I'm sorry, but any FOOL who decides to jump into a trilogy starting with the LAST part in that trilogy deserves to be left lost and clueless. Period.

[theSteeeeels]

if youre gonna start the mass effect series off with the FINAL CHAPTER then thats ur problem.

Bioware SHOULD NOT MAKE THE GAME NEWBIE FRIENDLY because the only reason they are doing it is for THE MONEY. a quick recap is okay, saying whats been going on and what the current situation is

but you think someone who decides to watch the Return of the Jedi before the first 2 should be cradled and baby fed? hell no, they should go out and watch them in order

[TwistedComplex]

Because Bioware isn't run by retards


Glad i could enlighten

[Maias227]

I don't really see any problems with Bioware making the third game something newcomers can enjoy as well. I mean why on earth should you have to play through two entire games just to understand the third title in the series.

Just to mention a classic, I started with Baldurs Gate II without having ever heard of the first game nor anything about the setting. Non the less the game splendidly managed to suck me in and I only played the first game a few years later because of the well made second game.

Imagine if they had made Baldur's Gate 2 unplayable by people who hadn't played the first game.

[DxWill10]

Nothing to see here people. Just a young boy wanting to be a special snowflake and doesn't want to get off his high horse.

my advice: get off your high horse

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Pretty sure that by saying "creative ways to bring new players in", they mean the comics and making references to past games.

One of part ME2 that bothered me was Tali's introduction; "Tali Zorah, you helped me save the Citadel from the Geth." Yeah, no ****, Sherlock. Welcome back.

[Kandid001]

Because limiting themselves with ME1/ME2 owners is a bad move for business.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Metal Gear Solid 4 did the same thing, and it didn't negatively impact that game at all. And that's a game that give new players the scoop on four preceding titles.

[RainyDayLover]

Why, you ask?

[MajesticJazz]

Deinonychus_Z wrote...

BioWare wants to make money, just like every other business out there.

Forsythia wrote...

Any good company does this. You don't want to alienate new customers, now do you?

And this.

Did LucasFilm in 1983 make Return of the Jedi a movie that wasn't dependent on content from A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back?

Did Sony Santa Monica make God of War 3 a game that toned down the story/plot content from GOW1 and GOW2 so that newcomers can easily understand it?

Answer is no so not every company does this.

[gosimmons]

I don't mind if there's a separate intro for people who haven't played the games. I just hope they don't curb character/conflict development for the sake of people who might get confused.

[Minister of Sound]

If you want a game that doesn't cater to fools who haven't played the first game, go back and play Golden Sun: The Lost Age.

[Walker White]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Did LucasFilm in 1983 make Return of the Jedi a movie that wasn't dependent on content from A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back?

You could easily see RotJ without having seen the earlier ones.  In fact, there are a large number of kids who did just this.  There were six years between Star Wars (the New Hope stuff was added after the initial release) and RotJ. This was in a time when VCRs were expensive and rental places were rare.  Just about everyone I know who is five to seven years younger was forced to see RotJ by the very nature of their age.

So this is a very, very bad example.

[Walker White]

Just to add to my last post.

Everyone knows that the Ewoks replaced Wookies in RotJ to appeal to a young market, right? A market that was incapable of having seen Star Wars in the theater. Furthermore, I just checked and the first VHS release of Star Wars was in 84. A year after RotJ hit the theaters.

[Digifi]

Nice moderator hack on the OP. I remember the first time this quote was taken apart and out of context... Many elements in ME2 were the same way in that they had a new to the series option and an veteran option. Many dialog wheels had a "who are you" option along with a jump straight into the convo. Characters would introduce themselves to help out new guy but a decision from the previous game would also crop up in there if you'd played ME1. I'm sure there'll be an explainer by Liara of how she became the SB. The VS will probably rehash what happened on Horizon. The blowing up of the relay from Arrival will be covered in detail, even if you played the DLC. None of that is end of the world stuff.

[Magragoc]

Please stop using the Star Wars / Lord of the Rings comparisons. There is a world of difference between spending four hours watching a couple of movies to "catch up", and spending 70+ hours playing through games as big as the ME series.

Games aren't about exclusivity; I hope Bioware does as much as they possibly can to make this great series accessible to more people. Hook 'em with ME3, then they go back and get One and Two, Bioware receives more money to give us more great games, and we as a community get new members who share our interest.

And for those of you who really need to feel more important than new customers; you've gotten more than your money's worth already. You've had hours and hours of fun and exploration, and the choices you've made (big and small) that carry across all the games will make your playthrough a much richer experience. We ALREADY are getting a hell of a reward.

[Walker White]

Magragoc wrote...

Please stop using the Star Wars / Lord of the Rings comparisons. There is a world of difference between spending four hours watching a couple of movies to "catch up", and spending 70+ hours playing through games as big as the ME series.

The Star Wars examples are very good ones, because it was impossible to catch up before watching the newer movies (no VHS availability at the time). So these movies had to be designed to support new audiences that had not seen the earlier ones.

[Grubish]

LPPrince wrote...

Talk about self entitlement.

Listen, I've been around on the forums for years. I've bought all the games, all the DLC's, some lithographs, some clothing.

I've spent hundreds upon hundreds of dollars on Bioware products.

Some of which is the ME series. I was there for ME1, was around before ME2, and will be here before ME3.

I've been around from the start, so let me tell you-

Get over it.

Bioware isn't stupid, no matter what any "I HATE THE POWERS THAT BE" forumite tells you.

Bioware isn't "catering" to anyone. If they were catering to new players of the series who started at the end with ME3, they'd remove all or most of the older characters, never have any references or appearances by them, start a brand new story, and ignore everything that happened previously.

Has that happened yet? No. And the possibility of them doing that is already invalidated by the Gameinformer article.

Bioware can make mistakes with their music, they can make mistakes with their level design, they can make mistakes with what they add(mining) and what they remove(Mako, inventory), and they can make fundamental mistakes like removing things that only needed to be fixed(Mako, inventory).

But they will NOT cater to new players. If they did that, the entire currently existing ME fanbase would be livid. It would be horrid business practice.

What they WILL do is find a nice balance. Leave some references to past events at the start(since we know the beginning of ME3 now, let me tell you that it is the PERFECT place to bring up past events) while constantly bringing back old characters and old events like its the end of the universe(which it might be, actually).

I would NOT want to come into this game a new player and not know what the hell is going on.

Sure, I could go out and buy ME1 and ME2. That would make sense. But there could be perfectly legitimate reasons as to why I don't go out and get them, which would keep me to ME3.

I'd want to understand it. Its Bioware's job to bring me up to speed, and then accept me into the lore like they've accepted everyone else.

If you don't want that, then I'm sorry, but your self entitlement will get you nowhere.

Bioware do what they do because THEY want to do it. Not because of a single person.

I could've shouted from the roof tops that I wanted a Tali romance till I was blue in the face, but if no one backed me up like they did years ago, it NEVER WOULD'VE HAPPENED.

Maria Caliban, know her? If she didn't express just how much she wanted a Garrus romance and didn't have people backing her up years ago, it NEVER WOULD'VE HAPPENED.

A single person cannot and will not affect the game unless there is a serious level of support for said opinion or plan.

Your opinion? As valid as my own. But I doubt you'll have many people here agreeing with you.

So try to understand the business side of things-

This is good for business. New players come in fresh and understanding, old players stay entrenched into the story.

More money that way. Money that goes to themselves, their families, their LIVES.

Don't start to get on Bioware's case for taking a route that gets them more money. It makes perfect sense for them to do so and there is no fault in them trying(unless it completely alienates the players).

And that's the KEY to it all-

Bioware will NOT alienate the players of the game. No matter who they are, no matter how long they've been playing.

Doesn't matter if you're a moderator from the community like Javier.

Doesn't matter if you're a forum veteran like myself.

Doesn't matter if you've been playing since November of 2007.

And it sure as HELL shouldn't matter if you started in the Holiday season of 2011.

So if this was a TL;DR moment for you, read this-

GET. OVER. IT.

/thread

Beautiful post!  I agree 100% with this.  

I was a player who rented Mass Effect 2 for Xbox 360 during the Summer when it first came out.  I wanted to see what it was all about.  Later in the year I bought Mass Effect 1 on Games on Demand and played through that.  Then I bought Mass Effect 2 and finished a complete playthrough.  I have around 6 playthroughs now and I am really excited for ME3.

Also, it should be easier creating characters with the new prolouge, without having to replay the entire series just for one variable.

[88mphSlayer]

most people that i know who start trilogies with the last game fully understand that they shouldn't necessarily get everything... to be honest i think these people would probably be disappointed if they did get everything, because then if they like the last game how do you find motivation to play the first two?

[merrick97]

Magragoc wrote...

Please stop using the Star Wars / Lord of the Rings comparisons. There is a world of difference between spending four hours watching a couple of movies to "catch up", and spending 70+ hours playing through games as big as the ME series.

Games aren't about exclusivity; I hope Bioware does as much as they possibly can to make this great series accessible to more people. Hook 'em with ME3, then they go back and get One and Two, Bioware receives more money to give us more great games, and we as a community get new members who share our interest.

And for those of you who really need to feel more important than new customers; you've gotten more than your money's worth already. You've had hours and hours of fun and exploration, and the choices you've made (big and small) that carry across all the games will make your playthrough a much richer experience. We ALREADY are getting a hell of a reward.

Excellent post.  I have no doubt that ME3 will be very friendly to new players the same way that ME2 was friendly to new players.  

It needs to be friendly to new players, but I do also feel they will provide SOME incentive for other gamers to check out the previous games like they did in ME2.

I suspect that EA is going to market ME3 far more heavily than they did for ME2 and they need to bring in as many new gamers as possible.

Before you call this "selling out"  consider this: Bioware is not a charity they are a company with workers who have families to feed and the more they sell the more great games they can continue to provide for us.

Yes, it can be done.  Halo 3, Uncharted 2, God of War 3 and Gears of War 2 are all examples of games that are strong enough to stand on their own and dont REQUIRE the player to play the previous games to completely understand whats going on.  

Modifié par merrick97, 11 avril 2011 - 02:32 .

[aeetos21]

I'm with the OP on this one but the problem is BW knows the players that bought either of the two earlier games are going to buy ME3 no matter how much they cater to the new players.

[Supersomething]

marshalleck wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Clearly, because Mass Effect is nothing like Star Wars means it can't be awesome. Poor Shepard never stood a chance.

In terms of how the narrative unfolded over the course of three separate installments, this is absolutely correct despite it being an attempt at sarcasm. 

Same holds true for Lord of the Rings if you prefer. Hell, even Harry ****ing Potter doesn't have to reset the continuity in order to deliver a sequel. 

You're comparing a Gaming media outlet to Books and Movies?  You do realize that the mechanics of the last two are quite different from gaming correct?  Hell even then in the books they will give you a short recap about the history of some characters, so thanks for bringing that comparison to light I guess.  Story writing in games is always altered for the sake of gameplay and making it more inviting for new players.