132 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

I noticed the ending, if you sided with the Templars, we saw didn't see any teens or children killed.

Do the Templars spare children?

If not, did we not see that because the developers thought it would make the issue more black and white for most players? Or simply because showing children being killed is disturbing to many?

[IndigoWolfe]

I'd assume they are.

[Herr Uhl]

I imagine the children get killed too, they're not harmless if they're possessed.

*points to Connor for an example*

[IanPolaris]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I noticed the ending, if you sided with the Templars, we saw didn't see any teens or children killed.

Do the Templars spare children?

If not, did we not see that because the developers thought it would make the issue more black and white for most players? Or simply because showing children being killed is disturbing to many?

Chidren most certainly are killed during a Right of Annulement.  We see that explicitly when we see (and sometimes have to actually kill) children in the Fereldan tower if you annul it.  IIRC, Bioware got a lot of flack for that too...which is why in DA2, all children-slaughter occures off screen, but it does happen.

-Polaris

[mesmerizedish]

I would think that children are killed as well. They're just as susceptible to possession as adults... even moreso maybe, since they haven't been through the Harrowing.

If the exclusion of visible child-killing was a conscious decision, then my guess is that they just thought it would be "too much."

Though, Vader did it.

[p95h]

During the "Supposed" Right of Annulment (And Ser Cullen has issues with delcaring what happened at Kirkwall as such), Hawke has the option to spare a few of the mages. Ser Cullen follows Hawke's lead. Therefore I would assume that the action taken at Kirkwall was not a sanctioned Rite of Annulment.

[Ryzaki]

@IanPolaris: Wat. You didn't kill any children in DAO. (With the exception of Conner). 

The only mages you can actually kill in the Fereldan tower are bloodmages, Wynne and her crew and the mages at the top of the tower and I think you can only kill them once they turn into abominations. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 avril 2011 - 10:53 .

[IanPolaris]

Herr Uhl wrote...

I imagine the children get killed too, they're not harmless if they're possessed.

*points to Connor for an example*

The Right of Annument doesn't make distinctions.  If you are a circle mage, you are killed whether your a six of sixty-six.

-Polaris

[LobselVith8]

David Gaider addressed the templars kill all the mages during the Right of Annulment, and any mages who are spared undergo the Rite of Tranquility:

David Gaider wrote...

The issue is this:

By the time the Right of Annulment is invoked, the tower in question has moved beyond the possibility of mages being brought under control enough that Tranquility would even be possible. It's possible some mages might survive the initial assault, but the order cannot be "take any prisoners you can" simply because by that point a mage might have been corrupted and become a blood mage... something which cannot be detected under normal circumstances. Thus capturing them becomes a means for them to escape the quarantine.

So therefore the order is "kill everyone". At the end of the day, if any mages are still alive for whatever reason... then, yes, I imagine they could theroretically be made Tranquil as opposed to executed outright.

[IanPolaris]

Ryzaki wrote...

@IanPolaris: Wat. You didn't kill any children in DAO. (With the exception of Conner).

Yes you do.  Those charmming children with Wynne when you meet her.

Dead.  In fact if you insist on the Right, you have to kill them in person right then and there.

-Polaris

[DoNotIngest]

I'd bet my life they're killed. Really, (this is going to sound terrible) given the sheer number of Templar rapists, I daresay it's even worse than that.

Siding with Mages FTW!

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I noticed the ending, if you sided with the Templars, we saw didn't see any teens or children killed.

Do the Templars spare children?

If not, did we not see that because the developers thought it would make the issue more black and white for most players? Or simply because showing children being killed is disturbing to many?

Chidren most certainly are killed during a Right of Annulement.  We see that explicitly when we see (and sometimes have to actually kill) children in the Fereldan tower if you annul it.  IIRC, Bioware got a lot of flack for that too...which is why in DA2, all children-slaughter occures off screen, but it does happen.

-Polaris

You don't actually kill the Children in the tower in DA:O, they run away when you initiate combat with Wynne then despawn at the door.
But Children are killed during an annulment, it just isn't shown on-screen as that would make the game A rated and even illegal in some countries.

[Ryzaki]

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@IanPolaris: Wat. You didn't kill any children in DAO. (With the exception of Conner).

Yes you do.  Those charmming children with Wynne when you meet her.

Dead.  In fact if you insist on the Right, you have to kill them in person right then and there.

-Polaris

BS. 

The kids run off. 

You kill Wynne and the girl who looks at least 17. All of the children run off screaming. I have chased them. They can't be killed. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 avril 2011 - 10:54 .

[p95h]

Again, the action at Kirkwall was not a sanctioned Rite of Annulment, it was Meredith being insane.

[Maria Caliban]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

I'd assume they are.

I'm ambivalent about it.

I'd think that Orsino would be sure to mention it to the Champion if he wanted Hawke on his side, even if they didn't show it.

We know there are children at the Circle because Bethany writes about teaching them.

[bleetman]

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@IanPolaris: Wat. You didn't kill any children in DAO. (With the exception of Conner).

Yes you do.  Those charmming children with Wynne when you meet her.

Dead.  In fact if you insist on the Right, you have to kill them in person right then and there.

-Polaris

Hmm? I've had characters kill off Wynne upon meeting her, and not once do I remember turning my blades on the children nearby. They just run off and despawn.

I'd personally assume they are. Annulment isn't something invoked lightly, and we're generally informed that Templars are accepted based on unshakable faith in the Maker first, personal morality second.

Modifié par bleetman, 10 avril 2011 - 11:00 .

[IanPolaris]

Ryzaki wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@IanPolaris: Wat. You didn't kill any children in DAO. (With the exception of Conner).

Yes you do.  Those charmming children with Wynne when you meet her.

Dead.  In fact if you insist on the Right, you have to kill them in person right then and there.

-Polaris

BS. 

The kids run off. 

The game makes it very clear that all mages in the Fereldan tower are DEAD if you annul it.  The console flag is even called "All_Mages_Dead"

Sounds like you want to eat meat but won't slaughter a cow.  The Right of Annulment is very specific.  You kill children if you do it. 

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 10 avril 2011 - 10:57 .

[Herr Uhl]

IanPolaris wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

I imagine the children get killed too, they're not harmless if they're possessed.

*points to Connor for an example*

The Right of Annument doesn't make distinctions.  If you are a circle mage, you are killed whether your a six of sixty-six.

-Polaris

Was there any point to reply to my post saying that?

[sphinxess]

They die. However they arent going to show it again after DA:O they got enough flack that time

[Ryzaki]

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@IanPolaris: Wat. You didn't kill any children in DAO. (With the exception of Conner).

Yes you do.  Those charmming children with Wynne when you meet her.

Dead.  In fact if you insist on the Right, you have to kill them in person right then and there.

-Polaris

BS. 

The kids run off. 

The gam makes it very clear that all mages in the Fereldan tower are DEAD if you annul it.  The console flag is even called "All_Mages_Dead"

Sounds like you want to eat meat but won't slaughter a cow.  The Right of Annulment is very specific.  You kill children if you do it. 

-Polaris

I never said the kids weren't killed. I said the WARDEN doesn't kill them. You claimed the PC killed the children. 

That quite frankly was a bald faced lie. The only kid the Warden can kill is CONNER. 

The kids were killed if you annul the circle. But they were not killed by the Warden. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 avril 2011 - 10:58 .

[AlexXIV]

I am not sure how much worse it is to kill an innocent child compared to an innocent adult. I mean just because you are an adult doesn't mean you deserve to die. Or that it's a lesser crime to kill you. Not to mention, as some said, a child could be possessed just as adults could.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 10 avril 2011 - 11:00 .

[Rifneno]

bleetman wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@IanPolaris: Wat. You didn't kill any children in DAO. (With the exception of Conner).

Yes you do.  Those charmming children with Wynne when you meet her.

Dead.  In fact if you insist on the Right, you have to kill them in person right then and there.

-Polaris

Hmm? I've had characters kill off Wynne upon meeting her, and not once do I remember turning my blades on the children nearby. They just run off.

They "run off" because Bioware didn't watch to catch bad press for a scene with the player brutally slaughtering children who are begging for mercy.  Wynne makes it VERY clear that Annuling the Circle means killing those children.

People who think siding with the templars so they can "spare" some mages need to face facts.

[IanPolaris]

sphinxess wrote...

They die. However they arent going to show it again after DA:O they got enough flack that time

 I will stand corrected (after runing through an old save to test it).  The children do run off, but the game play makes it very clear that you killed them along with every other mage in the tower if you went this route.  The Journal entry says this as well...and yes as I recall, Bioware got a LOT of flack for it.

-Polaris

[erilben]

Even though you aren't allowed to kill the children yourself, Wynne says the annulment means killing the children. You can even back down from helping the templars when you learn it means killing children. Alistair and Leliana will argue hard for you not to do it.