132 réponses à ce sujet

[Conduit0]

Torax wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

Torax wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You...are a very confusing person you know that?

I never played the CE origin all the way through and DA:O came out quite a long time ago. I remember Vaughan kidnapping the women 'for a party.'

If you say that the rape was explicitly mentioned, I believe you.

It's heavily implied. The cousin Shiani is on the floor huddled and crying. The other women are scared. I think it was something like Vaughn replying how they had their fun with her. I don't remember they openly calling it rape. Gutting Vaughn is totally worth it though.

Well ofcourse Vaughn wouldn't call it rape, that would imply he did something wrong. As far as he was concerned its his right to do with the elves as he pleases.

No doubt. Just saying I don't remember the game using rape as a bullet word is all I'm saying. Which what a lot have used to add emotion to things in the threads. Like genocide, child killers and so on. It is an attempt to weight to the topic but overall discussion of it goes no where. If I don't witness the death of children it's only speculation on both parts. Speculation on side to say all children were slaughter. Where another could say they spared. No proof either way.

Sadly though, logic sides with the speculation of wholesale slaughter. An under trained or worse untrained mage child is far more susceptible to possession or corruption than a trained adult mage. So it would actually be completely illogical to anull a circle beyond redemption, but let the children, the most easily corrupted bunch in the circle, live. The only logical way around that conclusion is if children are segragated from the circle proper for just such a reason.

[Torax]

Each story has a type of tragic event.

Happy(Maybe) wedding day. Meet Duncan. Kidnapping. Escape with raped cousin. Duncan saves you from guards.

Normal day. Find some Shems. Locate a mirror. Duncan finds you. You go back. Don't find friend. Sad song leaving clan.

Feast and Proving in your Honor. You win proving. Meet Duncan. Father presents you. get betrayed by younger brother in deep roads. End up exiled in them later. Find Duncan. He saves you.

Normal thug day. Sister is whoring out. You go rough a guy up. Then you gotta help setup a proving. Meet Duncan. End up having to fight in it. Win it gladiator style. They get angry. Wake up in prison. Break out of it. Duncan saves you.

Commanding the Castle while dads away. Meet duncan. Brother and army leave without dad. All hell breaks lose that night. Leave parents to die.

The mage one is just boring. Not gonna bother. Really F'n Boring.

[RazorrX]

Ah the city elf origin, my first and favorite. I was fortunate to get the beheading crit on Vaughn, so it went along with he line "I want your head". I painted his house with blood. I let the dogs out of the cages, and killed them, etc.

I really wanted a line when I faced Howe about how I had killed another piece of **** human in that very house before.

And Vaughn is a big reason I will never really like Male Hawke. The voice brings back that scene with Shiani.

[Realmzmaster]

Shanni was raped. What other purpose does Vaughn have for kidnapping her? It cannot be for all the money she has in her bed mattress. Bioware tastefully told us about the act without having to show the act. You can infer from the dialogue.

[noxsachi]

Why do people seem so convinced that the entire Kirkwall Circle is massacred. What Gaider said seems to apply to general rights of Annulment rather than this specific instance. Infact on a pro-Templar play through when you agree the spare the mages, Meredith argues quite vehemently that they could be blood mage and that they would cause chaos later on. Cullen replies that watching over them and stopping them before they do is the Templar's responsibility, after saying that it is really odd to think he would tranquilize them, especially after defying Meredith and her subsequent death.

[Torax]

RazorrX wrote...

Ah the city elf origin, my first and favorite. I was fortunate to get the beheading crit on Vaughn, so it went along with he line "I want your head". I painted his house with blood. I let the dogs out of the cages, and killed them, etc.

I really wanted a line when I faced Howe about how I had killed another piece of **** human in that very house before.

And Vaughn is a big reason I will never really like Male Hawke. The voice brings back that scene with Shiani.

Same about all my Hawkes are females. That being one of the deciding factors.

[Ryzaki]

Odd I don't associate Male Hawke's voice with Vaughn.

Reminds me too much of Ser Bryant and he was one of my fav characters in origins.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

Odd I don't associate Male Hawke's voice with Vaughn.
 

Depends on what kind of tone I guess?

I know he's Vaughn's VA, but I was not that reminded of him and my Hawke was mostly sarcastic.

[Maria Caliban]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Shanni was raped.

I don't think anyone has said otherwise.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Odd I don't associate Male Hawke's voice with Vaughn.
 

Depends on what kind of tone I guess?

I know he's Vaughn's VA, but I was not that reminded of him and my Hawke was mostly sarcastic.

I play aggressive Hawkes. He sometimes sounds similar but mostly its Ser Bryant I'm hearing. 

And maybe it's because its been a while since I played Origins (sinceI've been beasting on DA2) but I can only see him as Hawke now. 

[DoNotIngest]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

You might not disagree with that but most gamers would be far more uncomfortable having to kill children in the Annulment.

Let them all play through Little Lamplight in Fallout 3 beforehand.
I guarantee you nobody will have a problem after that.

Oh dear god! I had happily forgotten about that place

Is this because they're all dirty little boogers (Especially the fat one) who you're inclined to sufficate with a smelly pillow? Or did I miss something?

[EmperorSahlertz]

DoNotIngest wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

You might not disagree with that but most gamers would be far more uncomfortable having to kill children in the Annulment.

Let them all play through Little Lamplight in Fallout 3 beforehand.
I guarantee you nobody will have a problem after that.

Oh dear god! I had happily forgotten about that place

Is this because they're all dirty little boogers (Especially the fat one) who you're inclined to sufficate with a smelly pillow? Or did I miss something?

It is because it is the only place in Fallout where I'm not allowed to draw my weapon. Yet it is the place where I want to the most.... Damn kids...

[LobselVith8]

noxsachi wrote...

Why do people seem so convinced that the entire Kirkwall Circle is massacred.

Because Meredith called for the Right of Annulment and ordered the death of all the Circle mages. This is later confirmed when you hear the differences between the templar ending and the mage ending.

noxsachi wrote...

What Gaider said seems to apply to general rights of Annulment rather than this specific instance.

Where Gaider said any mages spared during the Right of Annulment would be made tranquil.

noxsachi wrote...

Infact on a pro-Templar play through when you agree the spare the mages, Meredith argues quite vehemently that they could be blood mage and that they would cause chaos later on. Cullen replies that watching over them and stopping them before they do is the Templar's responsibility, after saying that it is really odd to think he would tranquilize them, especially after defying Meredith and her subsequent death.

Gaider brought up the issue of mages escaping from quarantine when he addressed the Right of Annulment, which is likely what Meredith was addressing, and the possibility of mages being possessed is why templars usually take a "no prisoners" attitude during the Right. Mages are either killed during the Right, or they are made tranquil if they are spared for some reason.

[mesmerizedish]

Mr. Gaider never said that surviving mages were made Tranquil.

He said that, as a rule, there were no surviving mages. If, for whatever reason, there were, then they could be made Tranquil.

[Sherbet Lemon]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Yes, but how would the CE warden know? He/she isn't present and comes in to find Shianni on the floor. The warden just assumes Shianni was raped.

Don't mean to bring up old stuff, but I wanted answer this.  It's not assumption.  Shianni tells you this and confides in the CE Warden.  When the Warden is about to leave and go to Ostagar, you are encouraged to go back and say good bye.  When the CE Warden does this, Shianni says, "All the other think that I just got roughed up a little.  I didn't tell them what really happened me." This is a paraphrase, of course, but yes it's not an assumption.

It's contrasted by the conversation can have with Soris's "wife" (prior to meeting Shianni) where she'll state that Shianni will be fine and asserting that Shianni is strong, etc.  She doesn't know what happened.  
I'm sorry for interrupting the thread.  I just wanted to answer that question.  Eeek..

[Addai]

Have to assume the children die, too, even if you never see it onscreen. Just as you have to assume the children in the Fereldan mage tower, and in Zathrian's clan if you attack it, die too. Decisions have consequences.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 avril 2011 - 01:27 .

[IanPolaris]

Ryzaki wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki,

I've explained why they won't do it. If they did, no one would back Meridith.

-Polaris

That's a ****** poor reason. 

We're lacking information that makes no sense to not be acknowledged. Orsino defintely should've tried to to use that to get Hawke on his side. It makes no sense that he didn't. 

I agree completely, but near as I can tell that IS the reason (or at least the only one I've head that makes sense).

-Polaris

[Maria Caliban]

I would have still backed Meredith on my first playthrough, but I agree it might have decreased the number of people willing to do so significantly.

[Wulfram]

It's concievable that the children escaped, particularly if Hawke sided with the mages, or that, since they would presumably not be fighting on the front lines, Cullen may have been able to revoke the Right before they were killed.

[mesmerizedish]

I'm suddenly reminded of Fallout's "Childkiller" perk. Maybe DA should have had a "Childkiller" achievement?

[Rockpopple]

Nope. Young Mages are killed during the Right of Annulment.

HATE ME!!!!!

[Sabariel]

If you annul the Ferelden Circle the children are never seen again. So maybe it varies from Circle to Circle.

[Cismontane]

Not really how comprehensive that annulment really was. By that time, it's pretty clear that many if not most Templars were vaguely mutinous, Orsino's blood mages were mounting a reasonably spirited defense, the scenes seemed to show as many Templar bodies as Mage bodies, and presumably Orsino had the weaker mages and children barricade themselves into their dormitory-like cells. Assuming the fight happened in more or less real time, I'm not even sure Templars had the time to reach the upper levels... Even if they did, unless Meredith was there to personally egg on every death squad, which she couldn't, being preoccupied with the blood mages, I'd guess that more than one demoralized Templar, when confronted with a barred door, kids sobbing on the other side, possible death by abomination, and the fact that his boss is obviously bonkers, just said "frack it.. I'll try the next one."

Templars may be proficient at tormenting mages, fighting abominations, and making mages tranquil, but I tend to doubt too many of them had experience with the cold blooded murder of non combatants. My guess is, they did a pretty shoddy job of clearing the Gallows and returned to Meredith playing dumb.

[Lady Bibble]

No doubt in my mind that Shianni was raped in the CE origin, but what bothers me is that when you finally get to the Arl, she has all her clothes on. It's like 'Okay, I had my fun, now get dressed so my buddy Patrick can get the full experience.'

[_Aine_]

Anullment does not necessarily mean 100% death, does it? If the mages surrendered, technically the templars could imprison them until their threat level was determined.

I did hear them speak of the age of 12 as an age where mages come into power, so it is unlikely young children, younger than 12 anyway, would be considered a magical threat anyway until they "come of age".