240 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

There is actually nothing to say that male Shepard cannot be gay. This assumption seems to be based on the fact that none of the 3 male human crew members hit on shepard and neither do the aliens. That's not really unexpected.

[AdmiralCheez]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Not exactly.....

You, "the player", views your Shepard romancing Liara as evidence of her being gay, but that's not how BW and the game sees it like. You define Shepard, but not make up who he/she is. The game sees her as a monosexual race, being neither male or female.

If that were the case, then why can't you get the hots for Miranda or Ashley?

FACEPALM.

You just ADMITTED that, since the asari look and act female, one would have to be attracted to women to go for them.  And now you are backing down again.

[KawaiiKatie]

Pwener2313 wrote...

You, "the player", views your Shepard romancing Liara as evidence of her being gay, but that's not how BW and the game sees it like. You define Shepard, but not make up who he/she is. The game sees her as a monosexual race, being neither male or female.

Even with the conceit that Asari are not female, female Shepard can be gay. This became possible the moment Bioware introduced Kelly Chambers, a human female who responds to the sexual advances of both male and female Shepards. There is no room for interpretation, no argument that Kelly "isn't really female" or that a female Shepard who sleeps with her "isn't really gay" because Kelly is, in fact, a human woman, and female Shepard can have sex with her.

So yes, female Shepard can be veiwed as "gay" by anyone, and by anyone's standards. The fact that male Shepard cannot express interest in men (even if those men would reject his advances) is high suspect and entirely unfair.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 11 avril 2011 - 04:35 .

[Pwener2313]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I'm saying to a human she does, regardless of what you think of her true gender, thus she is basically a F/F romance.

*sigh*

I thought you had understanded....

She's not an f/f romance, she was never meant to be one. Neither by BW, or Shepard, or the game. When Kaidan confronts Shepard and tells her he didn't know she liked women, there is no response that says "yes Kaidan, Im into women". Thus, she isn't, as there is really no hard evidence of it.

Although it makes you think, since BW ups the ante in every game. First Liara looking all female, the Kelly, and who knows what in ME#. Yet nothing for maleshep. I guess since Sheploo (Maleshpe) is the face of ME, it would be bad for marketing in general.

[J. Finley]

That cookie looks delicious.

[didymos1120]

Pwener2313 wrote...

 yes, we view them as female, yet they are not.

No: they are.  "Female" is a term that also has a biological meaning, and asari fit that definition of the term.  Even if they looked like human males, they'd still be considered to be biologically female.

[MACharlie1]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

I'm saying to a human she does, regardless of what you think of her true gender, thus she is basically a F/F romance.

*sigh*

I thought you had understanded....

She's not an f/f romance, she was never meant to be one. Neither by BW, or Shepard, or the game. When Kaidan confronts Shepard and tells her he didn't know she liked women, there is no response that says "yes Kaidan, Im into women". Thus, she isn't, as there is really no hard evidence of it.

Although it makes you think, since BW ups the ante in every game. First Liara looking all female, the Kelly, and who knows what in ME#. Yet nothing for maleshep. I guess since Sheploo (Maleshpe) is the face of ME, it would be bad for marketing in general.

BUT there is a response for Shepard when rejecting Liara...

"Sorry Liara - I'm only into men"

[Pwener2313]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

FACEPALM.

You just ADMITTED that, since the asari look and act female, one would have to be attracted to women to go for them.  And now you are backing down again.

Yes I did, but I meant it from the third person standpoint (the player). You think she's gay because she romances Liara, but that's not how BW and game sees it like. We see them as female, but the game sees them as monosexual creatures.

Otherwise, somewhere in the game there would have been a statement like; "yes Femshep, I'll be female for you" yet Liara ascertains she is not, her species being monosexual, something she clarifies many times.

[Pwener2313]

MACharlie1 wrote...

"Sorry Liara - I'm only into men"

[Blacklash93]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

I'm saying to a human she does, regardless of what you think of her true gender, thus she is basically a F/F romance.

*sigh*

I thought you had understanded....

She's not an f/f romance, she was never meant to be one. Neither by BW, or Shepard, or the game. When Kaidan confronts Shepard and tells her he didn't know she liked women, there is no response that says "yes Kaidan, Im into women". Thus, she isn't, as there is really no hard evidence of it.

Although it makes you think, since BW ups the ante in every game. First Liara looking all female, the Kelly, and who knows what in ME#. Yet nothing for maleshep. I guess since Sheploo (Maleshpe) is the face of ME, it would be bad for marketing in general.

Sorry... I didn't understanded.

I don't how Bioware views Liara. She's clearly a woman being romanced by a woman. It's a cop-out on their part to regard it as otherwise.

About the Kaiden thing, by your logic, just because Shepard can't say something blatantly means s/he can't be like that. Shepard doesn't even get the chance to respond to that passive comment.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 11 avril 2011 - 04:39 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Yes I did, but I meant it from the third person standpoint (the player). You think she's gay because she romances Liara, but that's not how BW and game sees it like. We see them as female, but the game sees them as monosexual creatures.

Wroooong.  If the game really wanted us to see them as neutral, they would be called "its."  However, EVERY SINGLE asari is referred to in-game as "she."  They have madiens, matrons, and matriarchs.  They worship a goddess and call their children "daughters."  Female, female everywhere.

Otherwise, somewhere in the game there would have been a statement like; "yes Femshep, I'll be female for you" yet Liara ascertains she is not, her species being monosexual, something she clarifies many times.

SHE HAS BOOOOOOOBS.

Now, if Liara was referred to as a "he," had a deep voice, a dick, and lost his ******, would you consider Shepard a straight male for romancing him, even if he INSISTED he wasn't "technically" male since his entire species only had one gender?

Think about it.

[Blacklash93]

Pwener2313 wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

"Sorry Liara - I'm only into men"

All the more proof that Shepard views Liara as female. You have to be into women to be attracted to her. FemSheps can be lesbians.

[Pwener2313]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I don't how Bioware views Liara. She's clearly a woman being romanced by a woman. It's a cop-out on their part to regard it as otherwise.

About the Kaiden thing, by your logic, just because Shepard can't say something blatantly means s/he can't be like that.

*YOU* view her as a women being romanced by a women, but not the game or BW do so as well. And since when is something "refered to" or "hinted" between dialog lines in ME? Everything is plain out told and said! It's the point of the whole "choose what he/she says" thing.

[didymos1120]

Pwener2313 wrote...
The game sees her as a monosexual race, being neither male or female.

No, actually, it does not.  One, "monosexual" (though the term the game actually uses is "monogendered") by definition means there is a definite, single sex involved.  Two, that sex is female, per the Codex. Which I quote yet again: "An all-female race,the asari reproduce through a form of parthenogenesis."  That is how the game actually sees Liara and her (not-)fellow asari. And again: look up parthenogenesis.  It is, by definition, a form of asexual reproduction restricted to female organisms.

Yes, as she says in ME1, those gender concepts don't have much meaning in asari culture, but that is a very different thing than asari biology.

Modifié par didymos1120, 11 avril 2011 - 04:44 .

[Pwener2313]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

Yes I did, but I meant it from the third person standpoint (the player). You think she's gay because she romances Liara, but that's not how BW and game sees it like. We see them as female, but the game sees them as monosexual creatures.

Wroooong.  If the game really wanted us to see them as neutral, they would be called "its."  However, EVERY SINGLE asari is referred to in-game as "she."  They have madiens, matrons, and matriarchs.  They worship a goddess and call their children "daughters."  Female, female everywhere.

Otherwise, somewhere in the game there would have been a statement like; "yes Femshep, I'll be female for you" yet Liara ascertains she is not, her species being monosexual, something she clarifies many times.

SHE HAS BOOOOOOOBS.

Now, if Liara was referred to as a "he," had a deep voice, a dick, and lost his ******, would you consider Shepard a straight male for romancing him, even if he INSISTED he wasn't "technically" male since his entire species only had one gender?

Think about it.

DAMN! I already explained this!

Society (everyone, including Shepard) views them as females, even when they're not. Society treats people on how they look, it's what racism is founded upon. If they looked male, they'd be called "he's". And "it" is reffered to objects and animals, that's irrelevant.

[Blacklash93]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

I don't how Bioware views Liara. She's clearly a woman being romanced by a woman. It's a cop-out on their part to regard it as otherwise.

About the Kaiden thing, by your logic, just because Shepard can't say something blatantly means s/he can't be like that.

*YOU* view her as a women being romanced by a women, but not the game or BW do so as well. And since when is something "refered to" or "hinted" between dialog lines in ME? Everything is plain out told and said! It's the point of the whole "choose what he/she says" thing.

It's called roleplaying. Shepard doesn't have to respond exactly that way for her to be like that.

What does it tell you if a FemShep only has sexual encounters with Asari and Kelly? No flirting with men whatsoever.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 11 avril 2011 - 04:46 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Pwener2313 wrote...

DAMN! I already explained this!

Society (everyone, including Shepard) views them as females, even when they're not. Society treats people on how they look, it's what racism is founded upon. If they looked male, they'd be called "he's". And "it" is reffered to objects and animals, that's irrelevant.

So if everyone views them as female, including Shepard, then obviously you'd have to like women to want to shag one, correct?

And you didn't answer my question about Liaraman.

[Pwener2313]

didymos1120 wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...
The game sees her as a monosexual race, being neither male or female.

No, actually, it does not.  One, "monosexual" (though the term the game actually uses is "monogendered") by definition means there is a definite, single sex involved.  Two, that sex is female, per the Codex. Which I quote yet again: "An all-female race,the asari reproduce through a form of parthenogenesis."  That is how the game actually sees Liara and her (not-)fellow asari. And again: look up parthenogenesis.  It is, by definition, a form of asexual reproduction restricted to female organisms.

Yes, as she says in ME1, those gender concepts don't have much meaning in asari culture, but that is a very different thing than asari biology.

Thankyou for correcting me *stares at Blacklash*. Indeed, being called "she' is due to external views on culture. That all surfaced when they encountered separate sex (alien) species. Otherwise, the term "female" and "he and she" was unknown to them.

[AdmiralCheez]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Thankyou for correcting me *stares at Blacklash*. Indeed, being called "she' is due to external views on culture. That all surfaced when they encountered separate sex (alien) species. Otherwise, the term "female" and "he and she" was unknown to them.

They use the terms themselves.  Argument invalid

EVIDENCE: Consider's Aria's "Patriarch" joke.

[Pwener2313]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

DAMN! I already explained this!

Society (everyone, including Shepard) views them as females, even when they're not. Society treats people on how they look, it's what racism is founded upon. If they looked male, they'd be called "he's". And "it" is reffered to objects and animals, that's irrelevant.

So if everyone views them as female, including Shepard, then obviously you'd have to like women to want to shag one, correct?

And you didn't answer my question about Liaraman.

Yes, I wouldn't have romanced Liaro(?) in ME1 if she he looked male. It's what I was trying to point out with the cultural views thing. You are treated by the way you look, not by the way you are.

BW views Liara "monogendered" along with the whole Asari species. Shepard also views them as monogendered beings, and not female. Otherwise, Shepard would have been given the [Im into girls] option in dialog.

[Blacklash93]

FemShep can be a lesbian. Even you admit that. She has to be attracted to females and female features.

[TheZerby]

I'm still upset that Jack wasn't as bi choice when she pretty much admitted to it and really I could see her opening up to a fem-Shepard just as strong if not stronger then male-Shepard. I also felt a little the same with Thane really, he seemed like an open minded kind of guy that may go down the road if he felt like he wanted to. Bottom line there are characters they so could have made aside from Asari to have Shepard be a gay/lesbian and it would have still worked.

[AdmiralCheez]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Yes, I wouldn't have romanced Liaro(?) in ME1 if she he looked male. It's what I was trying to point out with the cultural views thing. You are treated by the way you look, not by the way you are.

And you wouldn't feel creepy in the slightest?

BW views Liara "monogendered" along with the whole Asari species. Shepard also views them as monogendered beings, and not female. Otherwise, Shepard would have been given the [Im into girls] option in dialog.

You... DO realize the whole asari thing was Bioware's clever way of duping people like you into not fretting over teh ebul gayness, right?

[Blacklash93]

Society (everyone, including Shepard) views them as females

Shepard also views them as monogendered beings, and not female.

You're contradicting yourself.

[Pwener2313]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

They use the terms themselves.  Argument invalid

EVIDENCE: Consider's Aria's "Patriarch" joke.

are you not understanding in purpose? I meant that Asari did not see themselves female before encountering the Salarian race and seeing they had separate sexes. The "Patriarch" joke is part of them seeing themselves as females because that's how they were raised, since other species view them as females. They just went along with it, but they are not females.